Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Azurious]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

The Wanderers' item "Forget-me-knot" does not, among other things, allow an enemy Hero to use abilities.  As the "Iron Heart of Khaine" is an ability, then I presume that Morathi would take more than 3 wounds in the combat phase this item was used.  Is this a correct interpretation?

My initial thought is the ability would still apply. This is because it is passive, always in effect, and as such she does not 'use it' at any point and the Forget me Knot does not negate effects but rather merely prevents their use/activation.  That rational is a bit rulesy however and I suspect more narrative focused folks would rule the other way.  In the end it would need an Faq to be certain as GW has not given any differentiation on abilities that require you to use them and ones that are permanently in place.

[Aelfric]

2 minutes ago, Azurious said:

My initial thought is the ability would still apply. This is because it is passive, always in effect, and as such she does not 'use it' at any point and the Forget me Knot does not negate effects but rather merely prevents their use/activation.  That rational is a bit rulesy however and I suspect more narrative focused folks would rule the other way.  In the end it would need an Faq to be certain as GW has not given any differentiation on abilities that require you to use them and ones that are permanently in place.

I suspect that there will be quite a few FAQs required for items and abilities that may or may not supersede the Iron Heart of Khaine  

[Keldaur]

Am I the only one disappointed on the lack of command abilities?

Correct me if I am wrong, but thus far we have Morathi, and slaughter queen only.

[DantePQ]

You got ton of CA, Slaughter Queen have one, 3 cults have additional CA, command traits give you more 

[Keldaur]

3 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

You got ton of CA, Slaughter Queen have one, 3 cults have additional CA, command traits give you more 

Oh cool, didn't know we got more CA from the cults. Have they been spoiled ?

[Korazell]

Here's a quick question. 

 

Witch Elves just seem better over all to me, so, I'm embracing them. The question I have is...is it better to have the 4 attacks or the 3 with the buckler? That sounds like doing this and the spell that gives mortal wounds when you die would pair brilliantly at a minimal cost of damage output.  Does this sound wise or is that extra attack REALLLLYYYY the deal breaker?

[DantePQ]

Sisters of Slaughter have 6"pile in na 2" weapon which make them better in bigger units as they would be easier to maximalize units that can attack and in big units can pile into more units. 

Considering options I prefer more attacks but you can mixed them as both options have place.

[Lucentia]

I don't think there's any clear 'best option' over knives or shields on witch aelves, you can build tactics around either option.  Personally I would probably just go for the extra attacks, buuut I already have 40 of them with two knives anyway, so that's kinda moot I guess.

[Yawn]

43 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

You got ton of CA, Slaughter Queen have one, 3 cults have additional CA, command traits give you more 

I was under the impression those were CTs, not CAs. So for example the +1 to fanatical fervour 7" bubble is a compulsory command trait for Hagg Narr, right? I might be wrong. It's good for us either way.

[GammaMage]

I want to play Hagg Nar, not for the rules (which are pretty sweet) but so I have an excuse to have red-and-white streaky hair on my models.

[BURF1]

9 hours ago, DantePQ said:

All cults/temples need general(or 3 out of 4) to have instead of command Trait chosen from list command ability  given in Cult description. Morathi can't do that 

Depends on the exact wording, people who do these reviews seem to have a real hard time keeping command trait and command ability straight. The bigger deal is it seems like the -1 to shooting one doesn't have any extra restrictions and as long as you can use that one, Morathi is golden.

[Hulksmash]

I'm going to need the full book obviously but I'm considering something like this;

 

Medusa General

Hag Queen Cauldron

Hag on foot

2x20-30 Witches

10-20 Blood Sisters

2x5 Warlock Horsey Dudes

2 Hydra

and either 2x5 Javelin Harpies or 10 in a single unit

 

I like the feel of it with lots of stuff to use/do.

[GammaMage]

I've always been a big fan of gorgons, do I'm gonna buy two boxes of Melusai and add them to what I already have. Making my 1000 pt starter army:

1 Bloodwrack Medusae (General)
1 Slaughter Queen
1 Hag Queen
1 Avatar of Khaine
5 Blood Stalkers
5 Blood Sisters (Battleline)
20 Witch Aelves (Battleline)

 

My Hag is converted into a Darkling Covens Sorceress with Decanter, so she has a staff and will be just a temporary 'counts as' inclusion. I might buy Canaries to replace her. I'm not a fan of how they look, but some of the javelin ones striking in late game could be a great option, so it depends if tactics or aesthetics win out. After that, will probably buy more Melusai till I can play a Temple Nest. Then I'll see, either Morathi or a second Cauldron box (to make a Hag Queen on Cauldron and a second Medusae).

[BURF1]

So my first list here is Morathi based:

Morathi Turn 3 snaekems: -1 to hit city. 

Morathi General 

Hag Blood Cauldron

Bloodwrack

Hag Queen

2x10 Blood Stalkers 

1x30 WE 

2x10 SoS

Balewind

Basically the idea is to keep Morathi and the blood Stalkers back nuking while the WE and Cauldron go up field and start dishing out some damage. The SoS mostly just camp objectives and screen fast movers for the blood stalkers. Then on turn 3 when most of the WE and a few of the Stalkers have been cleared out, morathi transforms off the balewind, command abilities herself 9" away, and goes for the charge. Morathi takes nuke spell, Bloodwrack takes mindrazor.

Possible refinements would be to substitute 10 blood stalkers for more bodies or doomfire warlocks, possibly change SoS to WE with shields 

[Richelieu]

8 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

So my first list here is Morathi based:

Morathi Turn 3 snaekems: -1 to hit city. 

Morathi General 

Hag Blood Cauldron

Bloodwrack

Hag Queen

2x10 Blood Stalkers 

1x30 WE 

2x10 SoS

Balewind

Basically the idea is to keep Morathi and the blood Stalkers back nuking while the WE and Cauldron go up field and start dishing out some damage. The SoS mostly just camp objectives and screen fast movers for the blood stalkers. Then on turn 3 when most of the WE and a few of the Stalkers have been cleared out, morathi transforms off the balewind, command abilities herself 9" away, and goes for the charge. Morathi takes nuke spell, Bloodwrack takes mindrazor.

Possible refinements would be to substitute 10 blood stalkers for more bodies or doomfire warlocks, possibly change SoS to WE with shields 

That's very close to what I was thinking, but I'm considering Bloodwrack general with Blood Sister battle line instead of SoS.

[Amradiel]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

That's very close to what I was thinking, but I'm considering Bloodwrack general with Blood Sister battle line instead of SoS.

+1 to this ?

[Burf]

I was thinking about the Cities and Morathi, and I think they actually left an RAW loophole to let Morathi be general in the ones that make you take a specific command TRAIT(specifically trait). Because they say you must take the listed trait INSTEAD of of something from the command trait table, it technically doesn't apply to a general that can't take a command trait. Because you can't select a command trait from the table, their's nothing to replace.

It's like saying every NFL team must take a chicken sandwhich(it's silly but it doesn't invalidate the analogy) instead of their first round pick. If you don't have a first round pick for whatever reason (league penalty of some kind) you wouldn't get kicked out of the draft, but you also wouldn't get a chicken sandwich.

It's obviously going to need an FAQ to be actually be sure how this was meant to work but the word 'instead' here is enough for me to call it legal for now.

[shadowgra]

Guys the 5++ fnp applies to the whole army?

If it is in this way the army would be a less tanky and more damaging fyreslayers army.

Basic sisters of slaughter near a cauldron would have 4++/5++ and the hag gives reroll, bringing to 4+/5++/5++.

It's fairly strong for an army that can put out 40 attacks with a wytch elf unit.

[GammaMage]

I think it's just 12" from the general. And it's a command ability, so using it locks you out of using another one (like Inspiring Presence or the Slaughter Hag's special command ability).

The Blood Cauldron doesn't give an extra 'save' anymore, it only buffs saves. And I think that only applies to their normal save, not the 'fnp' save.

[DantePQ]

It's everything in 7" 

Also this Cult gives rerolls of all hits army wide from turn 3. 

Yep Cauldrob boosts normal save by 1 and doesn't stack 

[shadowgra]

In fact was:

6+ (normal SOS save) +1 because shields, +1 because cauldron

6+ cause allegiance, 5++cause temple, rerollable cause prayers.

I think it is a fairly strong thing to use. However if it only within 7" i am a bit more cautious in claiming them fyreslayers like. Reminds me a lot of harbinger of decay.

[Lucentia]

Note that the DoK shields only provide +1 saves in combat, not from shooting.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Prayers aren't limited to one use a cast? So with the artefact that allows 3 prayers per turn, a Hag can do that reroll +++ 3 times

[DantePQ]

I think it's hard choice between cults :

5++ in 7" plus rerolls of all hits from turn 3 or 

-1 to hit plus ability to redeploy one unit. 

Also I like Sisters of Slaughter with Bucklers a lot. Good save ability to dish out mortal wounds even against - 2 rend. Also big unit is much better then Witch Aelves as with 6" pile in and 2" weapon range it's quite easy to make them all attack and to tie more units in combat. 1" sacrificial knives aren't that good of them. 

Witch Elves will work better in 10 or 20 to dish out crazy numbers of attacks. 

Also will be using Slaughter Queen on Cauldron as my general with item that gives you 4++ save against mortals. 13 wounds, 4+ save, 5++ fanatical faith, bravery 10(as Avatar boost it), 4+++ against mortal from magic. With possibility of healing, re rolling 5++ etc 

Even in army with Morathi as I don't like Morathi as General if there are no really good shooting units. 

Blood Stalkers are just bad for that point cost. They should be 120-130 max. Fragile with limited damage output I rather have 2 units of Heartrenders for every unit of Snake Ladies. 

Blood Sisters on the other hand are amazing as even without buffs - 10 of them have 30 attacks 3+,3+,-1rend plus 5 mortal wounds on average,also range 2",move 8. 

Battalions are quite bad but usable as they are just cheap. 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

The temple nest is good for 80pts, add in a sorceress and enemy units suffer mortal wounds on a 1 and 2 whilst the blood sisters chuck out there mortals in response. Add in the prayer were 6's are 2 hits, you can get a cheeky few extra mortals from turned to crystal. 

The cauldron guard is also quite good as its ads 1 to run and charge rolls for the witches and life takers (they then might be useful) 

Just my two cents.