someone2040 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 After having gone over most of the leaked points, the one thing that stands out to me is... Drakespawn Knights. Everything seems sensible, except these guys. When Dragon Blades were 160, the same points as these guys, the Dragon Blades were still far superior to the Drakespawn Knights. The Dragon Blade riders have an extra attack with lances (So in essence, 2 lance attacks, 3+, 4+, 2 horse attacks 4+, 4+) vs Drakespawn Knights (1 lance attack 3+, 4+, 2 Drakespawn attacks 3+, 4+) so no matter which way you look at it, the Dragon Blades are always going to output more damage. And yet, the Drakespawn Knights now cost more than the Dragon Blades. Really puzzles me, it's almost as if the balance teams Drakespawn warscroll has an extra attack or special rule on it. Other than that, pretty happy with what I've seen from Order. Still a few things I think could shift (Like Shadow Warriors), but overall looks like this version of the GHB will create many more interesting and viable builds. Especially with Battalions across the board going up, it actually means that the factions that don't have battalions get a hidden buff because that nerf doesn't effect them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Drakespawn have re-rolling 1s for armour saves in combat, rather than shooting, which is arguably more useful. But yeah, I was hoping for a general drop in the price in cavalry across the board. I got my hopes up when I saw Dragon Blades had gone down, pretty disappointed when I saw Drakespawn hadn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 So the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard don't count as allies for any army then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, GammaMage said: So the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard don't count as allies for any army then? That's correct. At the moment, they're just the odd balls that don't belong to any faction. I bet as soon as we get the Shadow Aelves, they'll be integrated into that faction and you'll get your allies at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Hopefully they can ally with Darkling Covens then, I am going to miss my Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Pheonix temple got nuts. Guard went down 40 with a 60pt horde discount, pheonix went down 20, and allies plug the 'we need mages to work but have no mages' hole they had. Teclis+Archmage+80pt wizard or SotT+Spellweaver+Loremaster would be nuts addons to compliment the 300+pts you can shave off a PT list now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davariel Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 ... Wow. Those are some big changes on some of the aelf stuff. Dragonlord, Phoenix Guard, White Lions... I know aelf stuff was pretty much never used, but I always felt that was more because of their crippling subfaction divides and lack of synergy than the units being badly overcosted. Apparenly GW disagrees! Between this and the discounts most Sylvaneth units received, I'm more excited to build lists than I've ever been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncas Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 8 hours ago, someone2040 said: After having gone over most of the leaked points, the one thing that stands out to me is... Drakespawn Knights. Everything seems sensible, except these guys. When Dragon Blades were 160, the same points as these guys, the Dragon Blades were still far superior to the Drakespawn Knights. The Dragon Blade riders have an extra attack with lances (So in essence, 2 lance attacks, 3+, 4+, 2 horse attacks 4+, 4+) vs Drakespawn Knights (1 lance attack 3+, 4+, 2 Drakespawn attacks 3+, 4+) so no matter which way you look at it, the Dragon Blades are always going to output more damage. And yet, the Drakespawn Knights now cost more than the Dragon Blades. Really puzzles me, it's almost as if the balance teams Drakespawn warscroll has an extra attack or special rule on it. Other than that, pretty happy with what I've seen from Order. Still a few things I think could shift (Like Shadow Warriors), but overall looks like this version of the GHB will create many more interesting and viable builds. Especially with Battalions across the board going up, it actually means that the factions that don't have battalions get a hidden buff because that nerf doesn't effect them anyway. I found the Drakespawn points interesting too. I think we have discussed before the utility of Drakespawn knights vs dragon blades, and while I don't think dragon blades are that much better than Drakespawn 2/2 Drakespawn's better survivability(unless playing a heavy shooting list, maybe, but still there are 2 combats for every enemy shooting phase), I definitely do not think dragon blades should be cheaper. I think a drop for both to 140 would have been reasonable. I kind of suspected something like was coming because, strangely, in path to glory Drakespawn are listed as elite and Dragon Blades were listed as regular followers. Maybe the playtesters do have a different drakespawn warscrolls lol. Of note, wild riders and dragon blades now cost the same... There is a lot to be happy about from an aelf perspective with the changes, so I can't gripe too much, but I agree that another weird one is the shadow warriors for 200; I thought for sure they would drop, but maybe GW is putting a premium on their help with board control and funneling alpha strikes with their post deployment movement. Given that doomfire warlocks dropped 40 pts to 160, I am surprised that the other cavalry caster, sisters of the thorn, stayed at 220. Those are the weird aelf ones for me. Looks like the big winners are darkling covens and wanderers for getting abilities, anything on a dragon, Phoenix gaurd, daughters of khaine, and those oft forgotten white lions. I think, and am hopeful, that we will start to see more aelves on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Personally I feel that the things that Dragon Blades and Drakespawns do slightly different (Different shields, different horns) are really tit for tat, and in some situations one will perform better than the other. You could perhaps argue the Drakespawns get better abilities based on their role though. BUT, you can't ignore the damage. Dragon Blades consistently deal more damage than Drakespawns, and on the charge a great deal more. Then you've got inbuilt battleshock prevention baked into the Dragon Blades as well, and I just can't see any world in which the Drakespawns are worth more (and if anything, I feel should be about 10 points less). I also think Dragon Blades move faster if I recall. Order Draconis as a faction also has more synergy options. What I'm interested in for the High Aelves though are Eldritch Council and Order Draconis. I think both ways they can perform well, either with Dragon Blades leading the charge with some Eldritch infantry muscle (and Archmage on pony) backing them up, or you swing the other way and build a primarily Infantry based list with the Swordmasters and Eldritch Council, backed up by Dragon Blades and a Dragon Noble. Those are two types of lists I brainstormed today and may think about running in future. The drop in the Dragon Blades is nice, because it means you can fit 10 and a Dragon Noble into an allies slot. Similarly, you can git 10 Swordmasters, Archmage and a Lore Master into 400 points of allies as well. Allies and the decreased points has really opened up a ton of options for Aelves I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncas Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, someone2040 said: Personally I feel that the things that Dragon Blades and Drakespawns do slightly different (Different shields, different horns) are really tit for tat, and in some situations one will perform better than the other. You could perhaps argue the Drakespawns get better abilities based on their role though. BUT, you can't ignore the damage. Dragon Blades consistently deal more damage than Drakespawns, and on the charge a great deal more. Then you've got inbuilt battleshock prevention baked into the Dragon Blades as well, and I just can't see any world in which the Drakespawns are worth more (and if anything, I feel should be about 10 points less). I also think Dragon Blades move faster if I recall. Order Draconis as a faction also has more synergy options. What I'm interested in for the High Aelves though are Eldritch Council and Order Draconis. I think both ways they can perform well, either with Dragon Blades leading the charge with some Eldritch infantry muscle (and Archmage on pony) backing them up, or you swing the other way and build a primarily Infantry based list with the Swordmasters and Eldritch Council, backed up by Dragon Blades and a Dragon Noble. Those are two types of lists I brainstormed today and may think about running in future. The drop in the Dragon Blades is nice, because it means you can fit 10 and a Dragon Noble into an allies slot. Similarly, you can git 10 Swordmasters, Archmage and a Lore Master into 400 points of allies as well. Allies and the decreased points has really opened up a ton of options for Aelves I feel. Fair enough, I see your points and I agreed with you that the point of is odd. I do think a combat reroll is better in most situations and not tit for tat, but dragon blades do have some advantages. Those armies ideas sound great and would both be well equipped to handle enemy shooting before making it to the other side largely intact. The other thing you could do if you had draconis as your main army would be to bring in 2 units of white lions(up your model count but still have elite infantry) and a loremaster or an archmage. Or a unit of swordmasters, white lions, and a spell weaver. A Phoenix and unit of Phoenix gaurd is exactly 400 as well, and could be great in a caster heavy eldritch council army. So many possibilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCharisma Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 16 hours ago, Blitzel said: Any news for the free peoples and Friends? (besides the collegiale arcade offcourse;) ) Yes. What do you want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, MrCharisma said: Yes. What do you want to know? Any info on the wanderer command traits and magic items? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ruin Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Any news on seraphon allegiance traits, command traits and other such things? Ive read about the lords of space and time, but unsure if thats a battalion or one such trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Knight of Ruin said: Any news on seraphon allegiance traits, command traits and other such things? Ive read about the lords of space and time, but unsure if thats a battalion or one such trait. It's a battle trait, so you always get it for Seraphon allegiance. The command traits work slightly differently to other armies. There are 9 in total - if your general is a slaan you choose from a list of 3 (or roll a D3 if you use that method), if he's a skink he chooses from a second list of three, and if he's a saurus he chooses from a third list of three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzel Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, MrCharisma said: Yes. What do you want to know? Well, on the battle traits and hoe it could affect allies. And maybe some intel on Magic items? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCharisma Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 @Baz & @Blitzel: check out Check out Ben Curry's AMA thread here on TGA if you have a specific question. Unfortunately, I'm just a common man without a peak into GHB2017. There are leaked pictures on War of Sigmar forum too (I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidings Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 20 hours ago, GammaMage said: So the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard don't count as allies for any army then? If they have the ORDER keyword, then they can be taken as allies by Stormcast, since they can take any ORDER unit as an ally. But otherwise, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean7 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I tried to jot down some bullet points from the Order day on Twitch today: https://aosshorts.com/ghb2017-warhammer-live-twitch-order-day/ I haven't been able to listen to all 7 hours or so of the stream so let me know what I missed and I'll update the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 If all that stuff about Seraphon is really true I will... uhhh... don't know how to put this in a PEGI 12 way.... Let's say I'll be a very happy person playing my army. But @Antipodean7 I wonder about this point in your blog post: "Missile units don’t get access to Massive Regiments" Really? So neither Skinks with Javelins nor the (most-played) Skinks with Boltspitters get the bonus?? I can hardly imagine that to be honest. Still not complaining since they got so cheap, the difference is not that high. Could you elaborate on this? About your other point "A new FAQ will cover teleporting out of combat and whether it counts as a retreat. ": one of the guys over at Lustria Online says he heard it this way (no guarantee of course): --> removing a unit from combat by any means counts as a retreat. It was discussed a lot with rampaging destroyer (destruction allegiance). Also we are not quite sure if Masters of Order (Slann can unbind anywhere on the table. If cast on a double, and spell goes off, adds 6″ to spell range.) is a separate ability or a warscroll change or something. The guys seem to remember both were used in the same game, which would kinda rule out it is a allegiance ability. Oh and also: "Saurus musician allows them to move double." That was the case all along wasn't it? Maybe that was changed to not counting as run?? Surely can't be! ....or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I'm really sad Darkling Covens don't get extra spells. But I guess it means I shall have enough sorceresses to cast Word of Pain, Arcane Bolt and Mysic Shield every turn. -waits with baited breath for Command Trait and Artifact spoilers- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, GammaMage said: I'm really sad Darkling Covens don't get extra spells. But I guess it means I shall have enough sorceresses to cast Word of Pain, Arcane Bolt and Mysic Shield every turn. -waits with baited breath for Command Trait and Artifact spoilers- Same here with my Seraphon, I would have loved to have a spell lore. But then with all the awesome abilities we got I cannot really complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Thanks for the wrap up! Points/Battlefield Roles restrictions are designed to apply +/- 250 points around the usual 1,000, 2,000, 2,500 point restrictions. So 1250 - 1750 is grey area, well it has felt like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean7 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 @Aginor they confirmed today that skinks, gutter runners and night runners are some of the rare exceptions that are missile troops with the massive regiments rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammaMage Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Looking at some Stormcast ally options for my dark elves. Is a squad of 5 Judicators with bows worth playing, or is that too few shots to make much of an impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centuryslayer Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 21 hours ago, Jamopower said: Thanks for the wrap up! Points/Battlefield Roles restrictions are designed to apply +/- 250 points around the usual 1,000, 2,000, 2,500 point restrictions. So 1250 - 1750 is grey area, well it has felt like it Doesn' that mean that for 1250 you use the 1k restrictions and for 1251 you use the 2k ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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