SaintAngus Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I need help guys, I'm trying to decide between Skaven and Lizardfolk. Can you guys give me your feelings about how they play and how viable they are? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I love my Seraphon but they are not exactly strong. They are very versatile though so you can have lots of fun running lots of different lists if you are not playing super competitive opponents (Or don't care much if you lose) Can't say much about Skaven but from what I know I'd probably say they are more competitive because they can cause more mortal wounds. And I think they also have some pretty funny tricks up their sleeves tactically. Both armies gave some really great models in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Verance Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I play against a seraphon army regularly, in my opinion it's a battletomb away from being really good. As it is I win regularly with demons/bloodbound. The gh2 will bring them some seraphon rules but it might take a full book to really make them a good option. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Scaven can supliment another chaos force but don't have enough going for them on their own. Even Wayne from Heelanhammer had to stop playing Skaven competitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Ghost Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Am a short time Skaven player, but a big fan. They can definitely deal out plenty of damage, and with their sheer numbers, they can take it in return. You can go very straight down the line, with a power force - something like the Verminous Clawpack that can layer up some nice command abilities to have units kick out a lot of attacks (Stormvermin 3 attacks each, 3 more each time they die etc) - or lists that take things like the doomwheel etc, that give that traditional 'random' skaven feel. Admittedly, the one thing Skaven doesn't have is dinosaurs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAngus Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 Hmmm. That sucks that the seraphim need new rules to be competitive. I'm not super competitive, but do enjoy winning half the time. Do skaven still have the craziness of being just as likely to kill themselves as the enemy with some of their weapons? ugh this is a hard choice still since I love the models of both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I've got back into the hobby myself this year. I faced the same decision you did. My conclusion? Why not both? I've gone with the Skaven to start with though. I'm building a Skirmish warband, then I'll do the same for Seraphon. Then 1000 points of Skaven, then Seraphon... Skaven do still blow themselves up- the Skryre weapons in particular can overcharge themselves, potentially doing more damage or injuring themselves in the process. Perfect for my favourite Warhammer Saturday morning cartoon villains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SteveJames Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Hopefully GHB 2017 will be out soon Command traits artifacts etc could alter how a force plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyriakin Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Goats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtyomTrityak Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I like skaven models more that lizards but that's personal view. They have more fun things than lizards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I play Seraphon and they are quite versatile. There are a multitude of viable army builds; Skinks, Saurus, Big Dinos, Wizards. They can't quite compete with the most over the top competitive lists right now (looking at you Squigs!) but they are plenty strong for any environment outside of a hardcore tournament. If you play with your friends then they'll do fine. Sadly I have little experience with Skaven though I hear they have some nasty builds with lots of mortal wound output. Also Stormfiends are apparently terrifying. On a totally unrelated note, this is awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Dead_Ghost said: Admittedly, the one thing Skaven doesn't have is dinosaurs! technically not a dinosaur but come on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Ghost Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 technically not a dinosaur but come on!!! [emoji23] I can't argue with that! Sent from my G3221 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Okay and on serious note my two cents. I first wanted to write three arguments. If you want to feel a bond with the army and models and prefer a narrative approach I would suggests doing some reading until something sparks. Or is you really like them both start with a skirmish warband/ path to glory for both. And then start on the start collecting and you'll have 1000p army within no time. And as to your question on competitiveness. There is a lot to be said, both good and bad, about both armies but if your just playing at club level. Ehh, doesn't really matter. Skills and luck will be more important then keeping up with the current 'meta'. But then I realized the most important thing is to have fun in all aspects. Cool if you love the story, but if you hate painting the rats. You will hate them before the end up on a table (and takes so much longer). On the other hand if the like the painting and the story then you'll find a way to play them. So rule of cool. If you think a specific unit is cool get that! Paint that! Play that! It's about fun after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I have a lot of skaven, and ill give you my 2 cents about why i like them. Skaven are incredibly well rounded and have the the ability to have strength in every phase. They have powerful magic and buffing capacity. They are very fast and can be very mobile with the addition of grinder teams and tunneling, as well as gutter runners who can deploy behind enemy lines. They have a very powerful shooting phase and some of the best weaponry in game (warp lightning cannons, warpfire throwers, and rattling guns. Even plague claw catapults are decent but not the greatest, with luck they can do a bunch of -2 rend damage). Their combat phase can also be deadly with stormvermin, buffed blocks of clanrats, and stormfiends. Their greatest weakness is the battleshock phase which can be remedied with the crown of conquest artefact. If you bring a battalion you can have 2 crown of conquest and inspiring presence. That's 3 immune units which is wonderful! You can also being a battle standard bearer which isn't the best option but cam also give you battlesbock immunity. Skaven is also one of the few armies that have every type of unit. Huge amazing monsters (hellpit abomination, verminlords, thanquol...), elite units (stormfienfs), war machines (warp lightning cannon, screaming bell, furnace, weapon teams, etc etc), amazing wizards (arch Warlock, Warlock engineers, and even grey seers are sweet. Grey seers are decent but typically there are better options. Again, you dont have to always be super competitive. They look great and are fun to play!) Arch Warlocks are one of the best wizards in game. 3+ save and 2 spells with warpstorm as its unique spell doing d3 mortal wounds to 3 units on a 2+! So strong! They literally have every type of unit EXCEPT cavalry. Thats pretty much the only thing they lack. They do have very competitive lists, so much so that you almost shouldnt take them as they ****** people off. E.g. skryre stormfiend spam with gautfyre battalion let's you tunnel within 3 inches of the enemy anywhere on the board! Imagine a unit of 6 stormfiends tunneling somewhere and throwing 12 d3 mortal wounds! This lists weakness is in scenarios, as it is low model count. Another list is a high model count verminus list. Very combatty with tons of attacks. Taking tretch with stormvermin and tons of clanrats gives you great board control! What you do is take tretch as general with skaven warlord from the verminus battalion and a verminlord warbringer. Stormvermin Will get 3 attacks and -2 rend, 6s to woumd do double damage (bring a plague priest and 5+ do double), and every time one dies it piles in and attacks again, fully buffed! Clanrats will do 2 attacks at -1 rend, basically they become stormvermin... same concept 6s double damage. Just so good. Technically verminus clawpack isnt legal but if you aren't playing tournaments most people wont mind. If you are, you can get around this by instead using mini archaon and activating everyone's command ability. Finally, to address one of your questions, they do kill themselves, but it's always worth it! A warpfire thrower will do d6 wounds instead of d3, but takes d3 wounds if it fails a 2 up test. Basically a 1 in 6 chance to take d3 wounds. Mathhammer says you'd have to roll tests on 6 warpfire throwers before failing once and taking d3 wounds on 1, but gaining 6 d3 mortal wounds! Totally worth it. Most of them are on tests like this and always worth it like this. In the end, skaven isn't most competitive, but they are a decent mid range strength army and are viable. But they are also very fun to play and have many many different types of list. You can essentially create a list to copy any type of style in the game. Plus, their war machines look sweet! Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNoodleDave Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I'd go with Seraphon personally due to the possible lower model count which would be easier to get into plus Order Daemons is an awesome concept!Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, BigNoodleDave said: I'd go with Seraphon personally due to the possible lower model count which would be easier to get into plus Order Daemons is an awesome concept! Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Not to sway him away from choosing seraphon because they are awesome too and he has a difficult choice, but I dont think this is a good reason to choose seraphon over skaven. You can do a skryre list with about 20 models that is super deadly! As explained above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNoodleDave Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 You have a point there, I completely forgot about Clan Skyre... ****** lolBut Aztec dinosaurs though...Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAngus Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Thank so for all the great replies! I think I might be leaning skaven now just for the vast amount of units. Plus I like the suicidal tendencies of skyre. Space lizards will will have to wait a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmion Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Big skaven fanboi here, so id say skaven hehe. But yeah, lots of mortal wounds, low bravery, lots of models, goofy abillities that often goes horribly wrong. Overall a FUN and cool force, mabye not that competetive. seraphon is more competetive id say. Good units all around, and lots of variety, plus they have a battletome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 17 hours ago, Kosmion said: Big skaven fanboi here, so id say skaven hehe. But yeah, lots of mortal wounds, low bravery, lots of models, goofy abillities that often goes horribly wrong. Overall a FUN and cool force, mabye not that competetive. seraphon is more competetive id say. Good units all around, and lots of variety, plus they have a battletome! Didn't the General's handbook 2 announcement also mention new faction abilities for both skaven (I assumed factions) and Serephon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 The most important thing in this hobby is to collect what inspires you. This hobby requires a lot of time and money, and most people struggle to finish armies if they don't connect with the models and associated story. Seraphon are in a great spot IMO because it is a large and complete faction compared to most. In contrast, Skaven have been split into multiple factions and are only varied/complete if you combine them in some fashion. However, over the life of AOS I would expect for Skaven to get a lot of support as one of the more unique races to GW. I'm no longer overly concerned with "viability" due to GW's intent to update points every year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmion Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 On 2017-07-17 at 2:02 PM, Kramer said: Didn't the General's handbook 2 announcement also mention new faction abilities for both skaven (I assumed factions) and Serephon? Dont remember if both were mentioned, but it wouldnt surprise me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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