[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@Gwill_of_the_Woods While I would love for that to be the reason behind it (especially since Skaven got grouped together) I doubt it's the case.

Not too crush any hopes or dreams though. I think with the success of BoC and LoN it is very likely that they continue to go that route when it comes to some tomes. I could easily see them cleaning up all the old factions and put them together into mega-tomes. I would say it would follow more along the lines of LoN so you still have some diversity when it comes to the different sub-factions\playstyles of aelves.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

4 hours ago, GM_Monkey said:

So any one else notice the wanderers section has disappeared off the games workshop website, it's all been moved into Aelves. Same for the free people, have ironweld and devotes of sigmar mixed in as well.

This happened with many factions, like you said. I'd say it's more of a re-organization\cleanup of the webstore and less about anything else like most seem to think. 

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

11 hours ago, Ungface said:

Surely if you set up 9 inches away and your weapon range is 9 inches than they can shoot?

I think it's more a debate on RAI vs RAW. At least for me anyway. I actually tried it again with 20 Acolytes yesterday and it really isn't all that dirty considering what other factions/models can do (only killed about 5 Witch Aelves before they got charged by a Cauldron and wiped clean). I think I just felt bad for doing it that one time as it was against a newer player and he didn't like having Acolytes kill 2 1/2 Stormfiends with one volley...but such is the game. 

Either way, it's currently written that the accompanying unit is setup within 9" and not more than, so do what you will with that until it gets changed, if ever. 

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

8 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

(not like the last time they charged a unit of blight kings😒)

I'm sorry for your loss, I think I can imagine how that may have went. Luckily, no Nurgle players around here, only Tzeentch and Khorne. I say luckily but Tzeentch is generally the biggest headache. The guy always manages to have 1 Pink Horror left...

Anyway, I'm only saying I tried that one time and I just don't know if I can bring myself to do it again. The wording clearly allows it in my mind "if there is an accompanying unit, set it up anywhere within 3" of the grinder-team and 9" from any enemy models". So to me, this seems to inherit the "within 3"" of the grinder-team since it doesn't then specify more than 9" like almost everything else does, therefore making it effectively say "within 9"". But that's the thing, most things are explicitly more than 9", so was it a wording mistake, or intended as some cheatsy Skaven mechanic? The Deceiver allows a hero unit to be placed more than 6" and the Tenebrael Shard can be placed within 3", so who knows.

Sounds like another rules team question, although they never did email me back about the Skryre sparks interaction with Shock Gauntlets. 

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

6 hours ago, Num said:

My store owner disagrees with this and wouldn't allow it. It says that acolytes deploy "at 9"" but they need to be "within 9"" to shoot (so at 8.999999999 inches).

Debatable... But I can't use it myself then

Well, I've always agreed that the rules are meant to be more than 9" until the discussion here. I did it once and felt dirty because of various reasons of it seeming obviously not intended. The wording is definitely unclear, but I believe even 8.9999 still technically equals 9, and therefore you're in range...assuming you want to play that way. 

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@gronnelg Definitely do make a report. We would love to see how it goes. I always run 2 Cannons in almost every list now and they tend to average out pretty well. I tend to roll a 1 for the power level (auto 6 MW's) at least once a game.

I'd give the same advice I've been given, which is the same advice I give to everyone else: Start with a list, play a few games with it and adjust as needed. If you think you need more chaff, more hammers, more ranged support, etc...then playing varied opponents and play-styles will develop your list making ability and you'll see what units do and don't earn their points. Especially considering everyone's local meta is different.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

6 hours ago, gronnelg said:

@Gwendar Thanks for the feedback! The spears is a mistake actually. I'm running rusty blades on all of them! The 20 man unit I was think for flank protection and/or obective grabbing. So I'm basically planning on buffing only the 2 big blocks of clanrats.  Also, I think acolytes are cool, so I wanted to try them out :D I was thinking engineer for even more MW output. In this list, what do you think would be the benefit of exchanging him for an arch-warlock?

I don't know the details of his list, but I know he has a great unclean one, Glottkin, blight kings, a unit of plague bearers, probably a block of marauders,  and some plague drones. Oh, and possibly plangue monks (damn scheming traitors!).
So what kind of strategy should I be looking for here? I'm think he's got me a the grinding game, with summoning and just being Nurgly. So basically I think I need to make things happen early.  At any rate, I'm think rushing out with the clanrats and hunker down on objectives. Any other input?

Fair enough, I have just never been a fan of 20-rat units as I find they tend to die exceptionally quickly and put out little damage. They do serve some purpose though so it can work. I have about 30 Acolytes that I occasionally use (or use units of 5 as fillers for some Skryre lists) and I either deepstrike them with a Grinder-team or park them behind Clanrats so they can shoot whatever the Clanrats are in combat with and they do work very well in that capacity. Just keep in mind that outside of that single role, they will melt and have no real combat phase ability. But hey, I'm always down with the rule of cool so I would definitely give them a shot and see how you like them.

As for the Arch-Warlock\Engineer, both are great but if I had the points to choose between the two I would always go with the Arch-Warlock as Warpstorm can do d3 against 3 different units, 2 spells, he's much tankier and even if he somehow found himself in combat, he can do alright in a pinch. Not to mention he also has the once per game d3 MW's with with the gauntlet. Of course, something can be said about the Engineer potentially doing 6 MW's with his spell to snipe hero's, but for 40 points more I would rather have all the other benefits.

Ultimately, I think that you will rely heavily on keeping those 3 Cannons alive to put out as much damage against heros\tough units. The combat phase will be the big thing for you to watch out for, so always remember to effectively use the retreat\charge mechanic your Clanrats have to minimize casualties. Don't let your Ogors or Warbringer get charged as those are going to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting. That said, Clanrats hitting\wounding on 3's\3's with unit size buffs and further buffed with Warbringer\Warlord command abilities can be brutal if used at the right time.


Anyway, sorry for the long-winded and rambling response, be sure to update us with the results. I love seeing Skaven batreps no matter the result.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@gronnelg One thing that sticks out for me is the Acolytes. On average, they won't be putting out too much damage and I really feel like bulking up that 20 unit of Clanrats to 40 (especially since you're using spears) would be much more beneficial and would leave you with 120 points leftover for CP, Arch-Warlock in place of Engineer, more Gutter Runners, Etc.

When playing anything outside of Skryre I try to bring at least 1 extra CP for IP or re-rolling charges. While you do have the Crown, your Warlord can be sniped and he will find it hard to stay that close to 3 units of Clanrats. Other than that, I love Warp-Lightning Cannons so you've got me there.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@DionTheWandererThis rule has been in effect for quite some time, but I don't think it was officially FAQ'd until now. I thought the same thing about my Jezzails doing MW's on 6's in the hero phase shooting they get through an enginecoven due to it being worded "they can shoot as if it were the shooting phase". I was always told that because it wasn't explicitly the shooting phase, it didn't actually trigger the MW effect.

So, for example, this would hurt SotW not getting to shoot twice, but wouldn't do anything (I think) to the Waywatcher's fast\precise shots as that triggers "when a Waywatcher shoots his bow" but... even then I'm not 100% on as the last sentence says that "he cannot make fast\precise shots in the same shooting phase" which may imply that the bonus applies only in the shooting phase despite it not outright saying so. It would however most definitely prevent him from getting the +1 to hit for not moving as that bonus occurs specifically in the shooting phase.

Really I think they just need to get rid of the "as if it were X phase" wording because it causes so much confusion.

Pg. 7 of Core rules designers commentary.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

7 hours ago, Aelfric said:

If I were to go this route I probably would take woods, maybe just one, to make use of the Branchwraith spell to summon Dryads.  She's 80 points compared to 100 for 10 Dryads, but you need woods to summon next to.  However, the opportunity to summon 10 Dryads a turn seems like a good deal.  They're not as good in tens, but then you're not paying for them, which leaves more points for other stuff.  If you don't want the hassle of woods, why not take the free spirits battalion - Spirit of Durthu plus 3 units of Kurnoths - for 120 points.  Free movement in the hero phase plus an artefact and command point seems a fair price.

True. I did consider at least one but I may have to convince myself that it's worth it. And as great as that sounds, I've already settled on a more horde-like setup and if I went that route I may as well go full Sylvaneth, at least in my eyes.

For now, my 1k is done so I intend to have some 1k batreps up in the next week or two:

Allegiance: Wanderers
Waywatcher (120)
- General
- Trait: Masterful Hunter 
- Artefact: Wending Wand 
Waywatcher (120)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes

Total: 980 / 1000

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@Aelfric If I could be convinced of the usefulness without using woods I would definitely go for it. The idea would basically just be the standard 30 GG and 20 SotW with 2 Waywatchers. Everything else coming in the form of a couple blocks of Dryads, Durthu/Treelord and Kurnoths. All in all, I guess it's really just the Dryads that would benefit so maybe it's worth it. I didn't plan on running the Wanderers battalion anyway.

I know what you mean though, I've been building all 1k of Wanderers that I have the past 2 days and I find that I have to take 30 minute breaks between each group of 5 or I start to lose my mind. The plastic dust and glue probably don't help. 

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

On 12/13/2018 at 1:24 PM, Aelfric said:

I've been considering this route as well.  I haven't taken it further mainly because I don't own the Firestorm campaign and, although I have the gist of the rules. I don't have the actual wording.  Also, without the book, I have nothing to show an opponent as confirmation.   £40 is a big investment for a few lines of rules; I doubt I would ever use the actual campaign material.

As have I, but I think my biggest detractor in doing this is having to cart around woods and I keep all models\books contained to 1 bag. Suppose I could magnetize the trees to fit in the case and maybe the large front pouch is enough to hold the woods base. Just unsure if the deployment benefits are really worth it, though I would prefer to use (and paint) Dryads over EG so that alone could change my tune.

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

16 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

What are you running? How many WLC? I thought about trying rattlgauge with like 6 to 10 Jezzail

How do you stop G F?

My current setup is:
Allegiance: Skryre
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Arch Warlock (140)
- General
- Trait: Masterful Scavenger 
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
3 x Stormfiends (290)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- Allies
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- Allies
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Clan Skryre (80)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)
Arkhspark Voltik (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Like I said, Rattlegauge is good, but you really need your Jezzails to be at max unit size (12) for it to be worth it since they will lose models rather quickly, especially if you vigordust them for the +1 to hit which will counter any -1 to hit such as "Look out, Sir". I dislike this as it feels very "all eggs in one basket" and taking 9-12 leaves little room for you to add everything you would want to add. Also keep in mind that Jezzails cannot cause mortal wounds from hero phase shooting, only while in the shooting phase.

As for stopping Gautfyre, it is very easily countered by your opponent deploying well and bubble-wrapping their important units with chaff to prevent your 8" range Warpfire Throwers\Projectors from being in range to dish out MW's. Sure you could try to deploy right on top of them, but all of your units would take d6 MW's if they're within 3" and it wouldn't be entirely feasible to fit everything properly.

 

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

8 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

What engine coven are people finding work the best?

I've been running double arkhspark lately to good effect, other than that I would say Gautfyre even though an experienced opponent will easily counter it. 

Rattlegauge and Gascloud have their place as well, but I never found them to do much for me personally. 

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

5 hours ago, Gdead909 said:

Honestly I would be happy if they made skaven a keyword and allowed clan rats as battleline across all clans

I think that will be a given when we get a tome. Especially if they do intend to go the same route as BoC or LoN did with their combination tomes. 

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@walheim Many armies got grouped together. I highly doubt it's a sign of anything and just a cleanup of all the subcategories on the webpage.

I mean, I would love if it that were true, but we probably shouldn't expect anything until Q3\Q4 2019 at the earliest unless they do a quick "out-of-nowhere" tome like BoC .

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

I have around 8k+ worth of units to paint. Finding the motivation has just been hard but I'm nearing the point of painting them while at work when there's ticket downtime. I did it to myself, what can I say.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

4 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I didn't see an Eshin Discussion, but does anyone use an Eshin army?  I'm slowly collecting Gutter Runners as I think they're super awesome!  I have 30, but want 60.  I'm hoping next year we'll see a Skaven Tome, but not holding my breath.  

The Outflanking units I have (like Gutrot Spume and the Blightkings) have been performing very well.  The Gutter Runners with their shooty stars and rendy knives really shine in my past couple tournaments.  I have to make my old metal Verminlord into a Deceiver; Skitterleap can launch my old metal Thanquol into Warpfire range, or I was also thinking a Plague Priest could be good for that if I get 60 Gutter Runners coming in so their stars can maybe get better wounding, with maybe a rerolling the wound too.  

I play mostly Skryre and Eshin, but I've been playing Eshin in 1k as of late with a Deceiver, Priest, Assassin (w/ SoJ) and 40 Gutter Runners. Either way, @Mayple is on point with the Deceiver + Priest combo being an auto-include for Eshin. It really makes the Gutter Runners shine to do a good amount of damage with shooting and if the Priest manages to survive, he can continue to buff them or give IP from being in the back-line with them.

I've used units of 40 Nightrunners effectively in the past and have 80 of them that I am still trying to pretend I don't have to paint. Primed black Eshin models just mean they're all hiding in the shadows and therefore fully painted, right?

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@Skreech Verminking Strange to see a Skaven list without any wizards in this day and age but it doesn't always matter really I guess. What army is your friend playing? Curious to see how it goes so be sure to let us know.

Hopefully you can keep that Plague Priest hidden away well enough to avoid being sniped since he's carrying your crown. 

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@overtninja Right, one of the alternate setups I was working on does 2x20 with an extra unit of SotW for a total of 30 and a Prince for his CA, although I may find myself using all my CP for IP similar to my Skaven lists. Anyway, I could drop the Kurnoths for Rangers and maybe squeeze in more shooting, but ah well. I'm not completely unsold on Dryads, but having some tanky Elite units that put out decent damage seems good enough, at least in my meta filled with SCE, big monsters and high saves.

I think I look at the battalion the same way I look at running Gautfyre; Do as much damage turn 1 and hope you get the double turn. Granted, Gautfyre puts out straight MW's and tends to easily kill off key characters, whereas with Pathfinders you have the luxury of not setting everything up within 8" for Warpfire Throwers\Projectors. I guess what I dislike most about the Battalion is the inability to include any reasonable amount of allies for the tax of the battalion and Wild Riders. I just really love SotW but I find I can only reliably bring 20 of them along with 30 GG in a battalion. I blame playing too much Skryre for my love of shooting, despite that not being the way to go anymore.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@overtninjaThe slow workday prompted some thinking, and the thought process was the Kurnoths would be tanky enough that they wouldn't need to be behind 30-60 EG. The strength obviously lies in our shooting, so why not capitalize on that some more? Especially taking my local meta into account. I never thought about the durability of units of 10 EG but after these comments I don't think I need to invest the points into units of 30.

I guess it will come down to testing a few different setups, but if I can include more shooting then I'm all for it. May even give the battalion a go at some point, but I was never sure the points investment was really worth it (and needing to include Wild Riders\SotT), even with the double shooting. 

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

On the same topic of unit size, does anyone find 20 EG good or is it always best to stick to them as units of 30? I've seen some use 10-20 in order to fit in more shooting, like maybe another 10-20 SotW.

Slow day at work, so the mind is inquisitive.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@overtninja The objective game should be decent...Truth to be told it will probably be relatable in my mind to my mixed Skaven lists with tons of Clanrats, albeit a little more castle-y. I'll probably give it a go with only 1 block of 30 EG before investing in 30 more just to see how it functions.

Appreciate all the advice from everyone. I enjoy playing "lower tiered" armies and trying to do well with them so I look forward to getting this to work.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@Aezeal Yeah, probably what I will go with. I think Rangers could be better (and damage wise they are on average) but aesthetically I really would love having the Kurnoths, plus if they need to go off on their own for any reason, they need little to no support unlike Rangers.

I was going to do full shooting at one point, but I think having a good balance will be more beneficial, although now it's swinging a little more towards melee heavy with only 2 ranged units (excluding 2 Waywatchers) and the bulk being made up of 2x30 EG and 2x3 Kurnoths. Which is fine since the objective game is what really matters in the end.

[AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion]

@Aloth_Corfiser Thanks for the write-up. Sounds like SotT did a bit of work for you. I bought a box previously but hadn't intended to use them..may give them a shot. For their points I really felt like filling the army with more bodies would be a better idea, despite how good their spell is on EG.