Andalf

No it isn’t. It’s obvious. It’s 5 up front and 4 in the back. Done. That’s the point. There is no further maximization of efficiency for those units. It’s a good thing. Now they can count on most units only being able to get that many models in unless everybody is flying wide formations and smashing up in the middle of the table. It’s easier to measure what a unit is actually going to do on a per round basis this way, therefore easier to scale units in each other balance wise.

This isn’t complex geometry... like really. It’s to stop strings of 30+ models and incentivize taking more smaller units and a balanced TAC approach to your list building. Units of 15 Blood Knights without coherency is NPE.

Most of these units take one casualty and now you can pile in wherever you like. If you’re going big your intentions are to have the ability to take a round or two of Hurricane Crossbows or 9 spirit flasks to the face and still have a unit big enough to swing and use Inspiring Presence.

I don’t bother asking why, that’s honestly too trivial. This is a game, we’re not curing cancer. Honesty tho, 9 man ogor units snaking around and getting full frontage has always felt oppressive when I fought against it. Especially because it never ends their. With all the new layers in All out Attack and Defense these units would be bonkers. Gluttons can hit on a 3+ now. That makes up for quite a bit of the damage lost if you play your cards right. They can bring back a full model with some lucky sixes. The thing is, I think, that people want this game to be easy. They want to point and click and walk away. All of the things I’m hearing are “oh no, I have to actually consider the position I’m in while I’m moving models into combat.”

It’s not about “git good” it’s fundamentally about “things have changed.” It’s called adapting.

They’ll start off in a 9 glutton unit... they’ll have a 5 ogor front and lose 4 models, unless you yourself push them in and force the opponent to react to you and pull them into your flanks. 21 D2 attacks and 5 impacts on 4+ is plenty enough to wreck face, and it’s not oppressive fighting 3 units of them at the same time, because you can only take 2 of them. Everybody has this limitation. This game is great, probably one of the most immersive versions I’ve played and I was around in 3rd ed WHFB. It’s forcing real in game decisions and serious list building considerations rather than “all my buffs go here and anything that touches this unit is game over. If you manage to get lucky and kill it I have 3 more exact replicas.”

I don’t know, I’ve played about a dozen games with my Stormcast vs Soulblight and Lumineth with my fiancée to learn the ropes and I think every unit has its place like never before. Anybody taking a dump all over cursed city/black knights/every point change, while circle jerking with Vhordrai or FotM endless spells are just looking to repeat the same cycle they’ve made themselves victims of for too long. Have fun, eat chips, drink beers, smoke doobs, relax and actually play the game with the ****** units and find out what they do before you start heckling, Blood Knights are due to be 220+ points the way everybody is using them, and they aren’t THAT good?! In old WHFB days units typically had a front of 5-7 models and fought in 2-3 ranks. This game on the table looks just like it, you lose the swings of 4 models in a ten man squad on 32’s with good positioning but their saves/wounds makes up for it, while the smaller base units end up being just as easy to kill as most goblins. You might be able to swing with 20 skeleton attacks twice, but that bounces of boosted 3+/4+ saves or units with any kind of inbuilt defence on their scroll. The new layers of abilities give EVERYONE the SAME options to spike average probabilities with the Heroic Actions, Endless Spells and Enhancements, so everybody’s metric for measuring “average results from one unit activation vs 4+ saves” is COMPLETELY redundant. I had a great time rolling out my 3 lord arcanum all foot sacrosanct army against Neferata Blood Knight Spam and slaughtered them quite unexpectedly. Today Radukar the Wolf with Levitate and a horde of Zombies held the centre of the table against the same list, drawing in everything to lame combats with 6” pile ins while the Vargskyr Under the Killing Moon and everything getting +1A seemed like a fluke, but was actually planned and went to perfection. Play the game pleeeease... your rhetoric is ruining it.

The Blood Knight love is definitely for a good reason, but I always feel a bit cheesy bringing my two units of 5. I can’t think of any other Dynasty that can handle what Kastelai throws down. Maybe a Legion of Blood with Coven throne, Neferata and the orb of enchantment to try and stop the big bad units from fighting while the queen takes off their heads. this is the latest Vyrkos list I’ve been contemplating: Belladamma Volga - Spirit Gale Radukar the Beast Annika Kritza Vampire Lord - Amethystine Pinions, Arcane Tome Vengorian Lord - Vilnas’ Fang, Driven by Deathstench, Amaranthine Orb 40 Zombies 2 x 20 Zombies 1 x 10 Dire Wolves 2 x 3 Fellbats Chronomantic Cogs Umbral Spell Portal this fills a warlord and battle regiment battalion for 5 drops which is probably not good enough to compete for first turn against the armies that want it but good enough for hordey armies, which I think are the types I want first turn against. If I drop the endless spells and 20 zombies I could bring a Mortis Engine which I think offers a strong dynamic buffing spells getting through and MW blasting stuff the zombies/wolves/bats tie up, but cogs and spell portal give me some longer reach to shut down shooting units with Lycancurse. Maybe a Corpse Cart for the + cast and a Necromancer instead of the two red headed step children would make a good swap.... I have too many models.

I think there are a lot more armies in the game other than Stormcast who also use reserves. Gravesites, Legion of Night and Kastelai all have natural reserves built in. It’s a really smart play or why wouldn’t everybody just take the Imperatus and max Annihilators? It’s to stop the spammy nonsense and I’m all for it. If your army absolutely needs some movement try on the soul scream bridge or maybe Lauchon. My list is 20 Sequitors, 10 Evocators, all the endless spells, and 4-5 characters and I’ll have to find a way to make it work. Or play the gamble and take that loss while trying to win a bit short handed.

I agree Aturox. I haven’t found an end to any of the list building I’ve theoried out and there’s probably no way I’ll play enough games to get around to using them all. I bought in mega with the Vyrkos, but am starting to feel like the shambling horde/wolf thing isn’t my play style. Once I started building lists that were a bit more extreme and using units nobody uses but that had several synergies that helped culminate a strategy I’m going to really play the heck out of Neferata and bring as much of Knight/Lady Vampire vibe as I can. Bring along all the floaty behemoths with a whole suite of powers meant to kill heroes and isolate mega-units down. Just having an Orb of Enchantment equipped on a model has been enough to force opponents to make bad decisions with their big god or death star units.

I don’t think so homie. I’m actually really excited to get my 3 Lord Arcanums out and let loose with some of the new options. Tauralon gets a boost, and everybody is saying to be patient for changes to come, and I think they are right. Each chamber really has its own identity. My army was all foot models to drop on objectives while I pushed mortal wound spells hard, it wasn’t Shootcast Anvils *double-tap*Yawn but it was a reasonable army until MW started to fly all over; now it’s our turn to get a bit of that spice it would appear with smaller tables I’m confident Stormcast will be fun games back and forth, I don’t see many blow outs unless you can really learn how to layer out their revival mechanics.

I’m going ahead and getting a blood seeker palanquin and coven throne and I do feel like the flying behemoth thing is something legion of blood can do well. The scrolls are quite fast even when bracketed and IMO all of them have really unique abilities like Neferata’s wound a hero and on a 5+ they die, or shudder on the throne able to drop an enemy unit out of existence for a turn; that is seriously game changing stuff. I already have a Mortis Engine from an old Nighthaunt start collecting box and with 3 big flyers bringing mortal wound clouds and serious pin point scalpel mortal wound work with Bloodsiphon, a ton of cavalry gumming up the works and able to redeploy to contest objectives really easily. Neferata - Decrepify/Fading Vigour Bloodseeker Palanquin - Vile Transference Vengorian Lord - Aristocracy of Blood, Soulbound Garments, Amethystine Pinions Mortis Engine 3 x 5 Black Knights 2 x 5 Blood Knights this is 1885 points, leaves me with a unit of Fellbats and/or an endless spell or two. If I could fit Chronomantic Cogs I think it would be handy to help keep Neferata’s debuffs/buffs up when she inevitably reaches combat as well as more MW assistance right up close from Arcane Bolt. the Vengorian is pretty integral to the army, giving me charge rerolls in a bubble and that sweet sweet 2+ natural save with his -1rend ability, it allows me to save my Dark Mist cast for whichever one of my behemoths/blood knights is in the most trouble. Clotted Deluge can turn Neferata into a blazing hellcat inferno of death and the odd speed boosts the Vengorian will catch off Undeniable Impulses and Amethystine Pinions should help keep him in prime front line support position. With his command ability and the new heals he is going to be one tough SoB to keep down if you can’t paste him in a turn, and if you’re going to ignore him you’d better polish off the other target for the same reasons; Vile Transference, Hunger and Hero Heals helps me keep regenerating the Palanquin which will hopefully be under pressure. I’m going with the Mortis Engine/Bloodseeker combo because I like the potential they have to be a psychological affect, a bit unpredictable because they are quite swingy, but so many potential mortal wounds makes me think it’s at least worth some playtesting. I’m thinking these abilities will be more valuable with the smaller unit sizes in the new rules and the thought that swirling combats could easily net 4-5 opportunities up to three times makes me maybe too excited to see how it works. The focus will be MW Missile and slow things down with the BK’s while the blood knights and Vengorian roll a flank. The idea of using an army where every unit is min move 12” sounds like a lot of fun. Hopefully in the meantime the three behemoths will be pushing the centre, or trying to get deep into enemy territory early on more dynamic scoring missions. Magic is mostly all defensive focused on keeping the characters alive as long as possible. I do have the points to upgrade the Mortis Engine to a Coven Throne, I just feel like it backtracks a bit on some of the synergy in the list. There’s a decent chance I keep one unit of Black Knights in the grave. my biggest concern with this army is staying power and the ability to contest or at least make plays for objectives after turn 4, I really like the idea of it, comes across like it would need to be played really aggressively which is a nice change after having to play such a nuanced slow control Ymetrica list this past year. I guess I don’t really know how far the 12 wounds goes on 4+/6++ saves. Once I figure out how to fit it into the new battalions I’m hoping I’ll be able to get the Orb of Enchantment on the Bloodseeker or maybe more spells for everybody. Aethervoid Pendulum just got pushed back to the front of the painting queue as well.

The big changes really shift each of my armies around the same way. Mostly it’s just figuring out how to get the units I generally like using to fit inside the new core battalions and struggling to find actually useful combinations. I’m really happy to see that it’s the giant spammy buffed to oblivion stuff getting squeezed out, none of my armies were every put together that way. Shooting remaining as strong as ever is the change I really didn’t expect. Lumineth without Auralan Legions are a lot more fun to play against. I personally didn’t like the lore for Cathaller’s at all and am glad I don’t NEED one to play comp anymore. Changes to monsters makes the choice between Avalenor or his buddy a tad more interesting, My Ymetrica army loves all the command points and new ways to spend them, and having a solid brace of characters in the 100-160 point range with good endless spells. I’ve still never won with Lumineth but they are a fun technical challenge. My Sacrosanct looks better than ever. With 3 lord arcanums + 2 other characters normally I fill battalions nice and easy and have plenty of helpful synergies to help keep models alive/on the table. None of the battalions were doing me any favours, I play Anvils and only really had the one use for CP. With units getting smaller token shooting squads are more effective which is all Ballista/Castigators/Judicators are good for. Board size helps my all infantry and I use the heck out of all three of my main endless spells, and may get into more damage dealers looking ahead. Soulblight are a really well balanced battle tome and the build I invested in is very Skeleton Cursed City + Belladamma Wolf and it does well with each of the changes. Vengorians have a really nice combination of abilities that is super characterful I think. I think the new artifacts fill a few gaps in, and if the points changes affect others more than they do the Gravelords I think they will be a solid B+/A tier in competent hands.

I’m still hell bent on making something that looks like fun to play against. I just don’t want to be that guy who puts a big effort into the Cursed City themed board who nobody wants to play because his army is fundamentally too weak... Here is one I tried recently: Belladamma Volga Radukar’s Court Vengorian Lord 2 x 10 Dire Wolves 1 x 30 Skeletons 5 Blood Knights It looks terrible for AoS2... I think it would get shot of the table in most games honestly, but that’s how every single list I I’ve made since the new tome came out has. Hoping the points changes rumoured to go up for everyone else is going to help at lewet put a pin in this worries until I’ve managed to play test some things. It’s going to be so much fun figuring out what works, I’m so glad I bought too many boxes of everything on pre-order day! (Except blood knights... grumble grumble...)

They seem pretty clearly intended to play into a Neferata list and if they were any better Legion of Blood would potentially be OP if you ask me. For 725pts my battle line and Mortarch are covered, I have 3 MW missiles to play around and can clog up enemy deployment to get good spots for my two Blood Knight squads. The Wight King dropping reroll ones on 15 black Knights in the hero phase and then all out defence plus Neferata’s CA and warscroll spell makes that block almost impossible to drop in one turn, and unlike skeleton and zombie squads I don’t need to worry about whether I get them stuck in on an objective I need them to be on. This is a list: Neferata Wight King Mounted Vengorian Lord 3 x 5 Black Knights 2 x 5 Blood Knights 1 x 15 Black Knights There’s 125 points for battalions or spells left, maybe some fell bats. I’m 90% sure this list dies immediately in AoS2.0 but I’m interested to see how list building mechanics and the terrain/scenario rules might do it some favours.

Yeah, the list is a pretty big change going into AoS3 which I honestly wasn’t expecting. I really hope I don’t need to buy too much new stuff to make the transition but I think some shooting to deal with the incumbent bum rush of chaff we’re about to face will be due for the course. None of the new stuff for Stormcast looks like artillery or shooting squads, just that new Knight Judicator so far? Interesting to see the Sunmetal rule spreading like wildfire. I think you’re right about the spells and will likely drop the vortex. The Cleansing Phalanx should still be available as a regiment of renowned and I haven’t really reinforced anything. It isn’t fast enough I don’t think but I can’t do much about that with only 130 points~.

Bespoke warscroll battalions are in play still according to the latest war-com article. Yadda-yadda Regiments of Renown something or other.

I agree 100% Fred. Being able to play old school MSU style I think it feels more like WHFB which I love. Fleeing was a major mechanic in every game where there wasn’t Immune to Psych stuff (mostly undead/daemons). With smaller squads meaning likely more units on the table the game gets opened up to a lot more counter plays; which they’ve also added a nice new array of bespoke layers with the Rampages and Heroic actions it sounds actually quite immersive.

So far I’m starting to feel like my Soulblight army might be my tourney go to for the next year. Everyone in my group thinks they have a balanced battle tome and I don’t feel like I’m ever relying on one super combo to go off or not in order to execute my game plan. I’m also a big fan of not experiencing eye rolls all game from shooting, I can never seem to strike the right balance between enough shots that can do damage while also maintaining a solid chaff screen. The style of play I feel like could get back to the old square base days when you’d constantly use small flank squads to pull out tempting decisions for your opponent, and there’s an entire new gamut of options even with the new Heroic and Monster activations that make the game less predictable. With the new reinforcing rules I’m seeing multiple min grave guard squads popping out of gravesites while the zombie horde and dire wolves hold the centre. I’m thinking about taking multiple reinforced wolf squads and the gramma too, she can help roar at stuff or chip in some extra mortals while her signature spells could be really handy in tipping the scales in tight combats. Monsters are clear winners, especially hero ones that can Finest Hour and Allout defence, the Vengorian’s strong saves and ability to regenerate D6 from his CA + D3 from Hunger and D3 if you pass the bravery check. I’m thinking that my flying bat theme army looks a lot cooler.

This is an attempt at going all out with spell casting. I’m confident in the character choices but I feel the rest of the army doesn’t have the chops to stick in a long fight and support where it’s needed. LA on Tauralon LA on Gryphcharger LA on foot Knight Incantor 10 sequitors 5 sequitors 5 sequitors 5 evocators 5 evocators Cleansing Phalanx Everblaze Comet Celestian Vortex Dais Arcanum There’s still 100 points to spend and the only thing that makes sense to fill the slot is a Heraldor I think. If I can keep all the Lord Arcanums close together they can get fast enough to be able to take the attack to anybody. Sequitors are in mostly for rule of cool, love the models and the idea behind them, but I’d be willing to swap those out for more competitive options, maybe some judicators or ballistas?

I feel as though we are best equipped to handle Unleash Hell so far with the 6” pile in to combat maneuver not being a charge. Outside that the chaff charge to potentially lock them in. I’m seeing large Stormfiends squads or multiple Raptor squad armies and Auralan Legions being so much harder to charge into, but with Rally I’m coming around to the 20 Dire wolf squad with Belladamma’s command ability to really bog down the table, that and 10 man skeleton squads to pull out of graves.

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I am curious if a Lord Arcanums cycle of the Storm ability can be used on the same model more than once a turn? I’m contemplating bringing a Tauralon, Gryph charger and then footie on Dais Arcanum (hopefully) and they could get pretty interesting busting open flasks on last wounds and being brought back to life, or tanking a big guys attacks and coming back for the other Lord to smack him in the head too. I like the idea of the list anyway and was thinking it could go 2-3 or even surprise some better lists in my area. Lord Arcanum on Tauralon Lord Arcanum on Gryphcharger Lord Arcanum Knight Incantor 10 x Sequitors 5 x Sequitors 5 x Sequitors 5 x Evocators 5 x Evocators Cleansing Phalanx Dais Arcanum Celestian Vortex Everblaze Comet I’m 90% sure that the Sequitors and Evocators + the battalion and all those endless spells are a waste of points, but I was hoping that here I would at least be able to get a few options from you guys on that front. I figured the CP and artefact would be helpful with all the characters running around, and the spells for additional damage and to force my opponent to move around a bit. The Lords will try and hit a flank with the 10 sequitors and one unit of evocators dropping in with them, and the other squads will try and roll down the middle and take punches or deploy in the sky to come down on objectives at the right time. I’m willing to swap for other units and would love to also hear some about which staves/traits/stormhosts are good for this wizardly approach?

I think Katakros and/or a well run OBR list will give you head aches as well because he can regenerate so much. The Hurakan temple is great if you really have a game plan to execute with it. I’ve been thinking about using a Lord Regent and Dawnriders, and could definitely see trying to reinforce a Loreseeker on a forward objective. You don’t really have these kinds of tools to take advantage of the free move, except to stay out of combat. At some point you need to catch what the opponent is trying to send your way and deliver a hammer blow and I’m not seeing it in the characters. Only 3 wizards and no twinstones will leave those kangaroos dangling out there without much support. I still haven’t figured out an answer for Stormfiends yet myself either.