Neil Arthur Hotep

Not sure about that, I think Fyreslayers have been consistently powerful for at least, like, one and a half or two years. They show up in tournaments pretty frequently, and do pretty well. I really think the problem is that people are just not as enthusiastic about their defensive play style. That only goes for people how have enough in-depth knowledge to decide whether or not to pick up an army based on game play considerations, of course.

I'd be surprised if they don't rework the grave site rules. The whole SUMMONABLE keyword, actually. I don't think we will see that anymore in the new book. What makes you say that? I think the Vrykos Bloodborn and a potential winged Vampire unit are distinct enough to have both. If anything, I having Vampire troops be feral helps keep up the image of Vampires being a kind of big deal: The only way you are getting them as regular troops instead of heores is when they have gone crazy from blood thirst already (with the exception of Blood Knights). Since zombies and skeletons are in the book and will probably fill the niches of mass infantry, I don't think there is much of a need for vampire foot soldiers (from a gameplay perspective). I like the idea of vampires being elite units with special roles much better. I would even say that Black Knights are nearly guaranteed with the reveal of the Wight King. They might even get a new sculpt (although they don't need it). At this point, I would be more concerned about Hexwraiths, which look much more out of place in Nighthaunt than Black Knights do in Gravelords.

I was thinking the same with respect to the Dark Prince and Slaanesh at first. But GW has just been making so many connections between the term "prince" and Belakor in their recent preview. His reveal video is titled "The Rise of the First Prince", and the articel on Warhammer community has this to say: Plus, the recent short story really plays up the shadow angle, as does Belakors new model. I have seen him refered to as The Dark Master in some places, as well. I think the "dark prince" bit might be misdirection: The term would usually refer to Slaanesh, and that's why we were all thinking of that, but it could plausibly describe Belakor as well. That's how prophecies are in fiction, right? You think they mean one thing but it turns out to be another. I personally still think that was a vampire, since we know Soulblight is coming and vampires were foreshadowed in his back story. I don't remember how exactly the creature was described in BR: Morathi, though. I only remember leathery wings, but if there was a mention of shadows as well, I think the case for Belakor looks stronger. If it was Belakor, we would have to speculate about what he has to gain from Ven Brecht escaping. The most obvious would be that Ven Brecht is able to inform Sigmar about what Morathi is doing after being freed. If Belakor is trying to gain access to Azyr to destroy something important there, this might make that easier in some way. On another note, I now believe that "Broken Realms" might refer to the fracturing of the Grand Alliances. At least, we have hints of that in three of the the four alliances right now. Morathi and the Idoneth are scheming against Sigmar, Gravelords are plausibly working against Nagash and Belakor does not seem entirely satisfied with what Archeon is doing. It's a fairly shaky hypothesis right now, but what's the fun in only predicting stuff when it's nearly confirmed? 😎

It seems to me that there is not a single thing about Fyreslayers that explains why they are so unpopular. I think it's a combination of their aesthetic, price point and playstyle. I think an appealing price point and playstyle can do a lot for an army. Compare Fyreslayers to Flesh Eater Courts in this graphic: Objectively, the two armies are pretty similar: A small unit range and kind of samey looking. But FEC is massively more popular. Why? I don't believe the FEC aesthetic is inherently more appealing than the Fyreslayers aesthetic. In fact, I would expect dwarf spartans to have an inherently stronger appeal than cannibalistic ghouls. Instead, I think if we look at the price point and play style, we see where FEC has an advantage. FEC can build basically every unit in their army out of their Start Collecting box. What's more, you can actually run three of your big centerpiece models (Zombie Dragon kit) and it's a valid play style. The Fyreslayers box is not nearly as good, by contrast. It has the worse of their battleline choices (Vulkite Berzerkers) and the Magmadroth kit is not nearly as useful in multiples as the zombie dragon kit. And the Fyreslayers box is more expensive, as well. There is also a big difference in play style for these two armies. FEC skews offensive. An average FEC list is about going out there and smashing things, and there are several fun, distinct lists that can do this. Fyreslayers are best played as a defensive army, with a big blob of Hearthguard that ideally does not move from their chosen objective for the whole game. For me, FEC (along with BCR) are always in the back of my mind as a potential pick-up for a second (third...) army, just because they are so easy to get into and have a pretty fun, stress free playstyle. That even overcomes their unappealing aesthetic to a degree. I think that is what the graphic above shows, as well, since the survey it is based on asked people to name all the armies they play, not just their main army. FEC does much worse if that's what you ask people about (5th from the bottom): So, in my mind, Fyreslayers have a lot to overcome. Ideally, the faction should probably get a bunch of new units to help with their samey look, and give them more viable (and more appealing) play style options. If they have to be an expensive army, they should at least be properly elite (not semi-elite like they currently are). Alternatively, I think souping Fyreslayers together with another dwarf faction Warclans style would not be the worst solution possible (not Kharadron Overlords, though). Maybe let Dispossesed cross over into that faction, too. I think if we had KO, an "all dwarves" faction and Cities of Sigmar as options, that would be a pretty good place for dwarves in AoS.

I believed this at first, but after the Belakor reveal, I think Ven Brecht's saviour and the subject of this short story are different beings. Specifically, I think Ven Brecht was saved by a vampire. I still believe those are coming sooner rather than later. I now think the monstrous shadow in the short story was Belakor, though. I don't know a lot about AoS lore, but I have been doing some research about what might possibly happen in Broken Realms. I posted this in the rumour thread, too, but I think it has a place here as well. First, we have this prophecy to from a few weeks ago: Since we got confirmation of Belakor, I think it's safe to assume he's the Dark Prince. Let's take a look at his short story, too. What is he planning? So could it be that he's planning to destroy some kind of important mirror? I found this on a wiki, about a guy named Sanasay Bayla: The mirror is currently located on Mount Celestian in Azyr, at the Court of the Gods: From what I can gather, Sigmar and the Pantheon of Order use the mirror as a tool in their defense against chaos. Specifically, there is a mention on one of the wikis that it was created in response to the growing threat of Tzeentch: Makes sense that it's harder for Tzeentch to keep his plans secret if the gods of order can view any location in the realms at any time. It all seems to fit pretty well. Sanasay Bayla was apparently referenced in a recent Soulbound book, so it's not too bad of a pull. Maybe one of you has read the short story "Pantheon" which is apparently where most of this info comes from and has some better perspective on the mirror and how important it is.

I also count 36. Maybe that means double bat and rat swarms (three more of each)? They say there are 60 miniatures total. We know of 8 heroes and two objective markers (hanging skeleton and crow with key). Even at 42 adversaries, that leaves 8 minis unaccounted for. Interesting. EDIT: Oh wait, the website literally says 10 objective markers. Mystery solved.

I finally have some time to put down a few of my thoughts. To start, all the models look extremely good. The mood they are going for is also a complete hit with me. I'm writing this as my first comment so that I don't have to repeat it far every single model. I want to speculate about what models will likely be part of Gravelords. I think all units will get warscrolls (the game comes with a Warscroll book after all), but I don't think all of them will be made "real". That is, I don't think all of the new models will be available separately for Gravelords. New zombies: They called them Deadwalker Zombies on the stream, so they seem to be a replacement for the old zombie kit. If that is the case, I would predict a substantial warscroll rewrite. These new zombies don't look like a unit you run in 60s. They are too fiddly, and don't look "throwaway" enough. Rather, to me, they give off an impression of resilience: They are still up and walking around even though they were buried with their gravestones staking them into the earth. I think these guys might take the functional role of Chainrasps (assuming Gravelords lose the Nighthaunt crossover units) as a tanky infantry option. Gorslav is almost certainly going to be a buff hero for Deadwalkers if these guys are in. New skeletons: Notably not refered to as Skeletons Warriors on stream, but as Ulfenwatch. They will likely be a "real" unit, given how they come with a champion and banner, but I predict they will not replace an existing unit. Some people have been speculating that they might be on 28mm bases. I don't think GW has an interest in making people rebase all their Skeleton Warriors on slightly larger bases if that is the case. I think these guys along with Watch Captain Halgrim might be a specialist infantry unit you can run in 10s or 20s. I would hope for them to have a utility role and not just be a medium skeleton infantry that goes in between Warriors and Grave Guard. I don't think that would be an interestinge niche. Wight King: Really good news! The new Wight King model shows that the Deathrattle subfaction will stick around and is worth supporting from GWs point of view. The presence of a Wight King on steed suggests that Black Knights will be part of Gravelords as well. Maybe the current Deathmarch playstyle (Deathrattle suicide charges) will stick around. I think it would be nice if the new book set up Deathrattle as offensive, glass cannon troops, while Deadwalkers take the roll of defensive tarpits. That would give both subfactions a distinctive feel. Vrykos Bloodborn: The wolf-vampires. I think they could well be a real unit: A kind of fast, elite shock troop. I could see them ignoring terrain, ambushing or getting bonuses to charge. Would be a welcom addition to the slow Grave Guard roster. Bat and rat swarms: Surprising units for me. I would have thought that all animal minions would be removed once the new book comes out. But these seem like they might both be in the actual book! That's fine with me. If bats become that aetherwings of Soulblight, that's a pretty good deal. Not 100% sure on the rats, though. It seems like that should be Skaven territory. It's worth noting that maybe Torgillius will become a permanent hero option if animal minions are a big part of the new book. Radukar and the ogor zombies: Being a vampire seems like a pretty sweet deal for an Ogor. "You will become immortal and attain dark, forbidden powers, but in exchange you will be plagued by a supernatural hunger that will eventually drive you to break the ultimate taboo: Drinking the blood of other sentient beings." "Sweet, I was going to do that anyway! It's literally all upside for me!" That being said, I am not sure these guy will make it into Soulblight permanently. Although big zombies could be a cool addition, especially if they had the ability to protect your small buff heroes for a reasonable point cost (4+ wound pass-off or something). The Vargskyr: The new, big smash-bat. Looks cool! It would kind of be a missed opportunity not to have a cool, big monster available separately. Although this guy kind of infringes on FEC territory. While we are on the topic of FEC: There is some speculation that their endless spells will be discontinued and that they might be re-absorbed into gravelords. That would be a big missed opportunity to me. I think FEC have managed to do very well out of their limited unit pool. Their concept seems strong enough to capture people's interest. I think they deserve a fair shake as their own army, with a real roster expansion that makes them look a little less same-y. And at the same time, Gravelords already has a lot of troop variety. I think Gravelords are stronger as a concept if they are vampires controlling skeletons, zombies and animals. Adding ghouls into the mix as well, especially after their prior characterization in AoS seems like it would be too much.

Anyone up for some wild speculation? Remeber the prophecy from that short story a few weeks back? Since we got confirmation of Belakor, I think it's safe to assume he's the Dark Prince. Let's take a look at his short story, too. What is he planning? So could it be that he's planning to destroy some kind of important mirror? I found this on a wiki, about a guy named Sanasay Bayla: Apparently that mirror is a defense against Tzeentch (somehow). It all seems to fit pretty well. Sanasay Bayla was apparently referenced in a recent Soulbound book, so it's not too bad of a pull. What do you think, did I crack the code? EDIT: Apparently the mirror is located in the Courts of the Gods on Mount Celestian now:

Between that sword rumour engine and the bone flute, new FEC stuff looks more and more like a possibility.

While the Wight King is not the most exciting model in the world, it's a huge relief for LoN players. For a while, the future of LoN looked pretty uncertain. With the release of OBR and then the leak of Soulblight, people were wondering if the skeleton models would be phased out or left behind in LoN. This new Wight King assures us the skeleton horde is going to stick around, and that it will have a place in Soulblight. Not only that, it's considered important enough to get updated models. Remember, even a few months ago some people were saying that there is no chance that old (Warhammer Fantasy) armies would get new models or updates. That they would all eventually be replaced by less generic armies in an effort to increase IP protectability. The new Wight King handily refutes all that, which is just so comforting for people with LoN armies, specifically skeleton heavy ones.

I'm not sure Torgillius is a straight up Necromancer. He's definitely a Deathmage, but I think we might be looking at a new type of caster. He seems to be more about dominion over animals than necromancy.

It really would make sense, given that Torgillius is the chamberlain, that is: The guy in charge of all the keys of a noble household. Since that's his day job, I guess cruel experiments to attain knowledge not meant for man to know are just a hobby of his.

It has to be new Blood Knights, though, right? They have to be the most requested model for an update in all of LoN, and like, the one good generic Soulblight unit. Although a new Wight King on Steed would be nice, too. It's the only one Wight King worth using right now and in dire need of a new model, too.

I said this in another thread, but for now it really looks like the Cursed City villains are hitting all the classic Vampire Counts staple units that have not yet found a home in other Death armies. Gorslav has zombies (Deadwalkers) Halgrim has skeletons (Deathrattle) Torgillius has animal minions And between the kneeling long-haired guy and the Wolf, I think we will be seeing vampires (Soulblight) and newly introduce werewolves. I hope this is a sign of the subfactions we are going to find in Gravelords.

More than that, it should really be expected from the biggest miniature game company in the world.

It's hard not to be in favour of more minis for cheaper, but when I got my first Battalion Box back in the Fantasy days it kind of broke my spirit. There were just too many skeletons to handle (Tomb Kings). Having those 50 or so skeletons staring me down with their grey, plastic faces was just too much. What I would like is a redo of Start Collecting boxes with the goal to make them somewhat playable and balanced against each other out of the box. I think putting the contents around 500 points or so and having them all contain something similar to a battleline unit, a hero and a centerpiece (with some room for variation) would be pretty nice. I still find that there is no good off-the-shelf way to just try out AoS for a reasonable amount of money. I think the game could bring a lot more new players in if there was. It would be nice if two new players could just pick up Start Collecting boxes for their armies and have a game. Of course, ideally, the minis in those boxes would be staple units from which you can grow your armies, as well. The same goes for the next two player starter box.

Not to mention the weird situation where the starter sets are not balanced by points and contain lots of under strength units. I certainly would not want a repeat of that for 3.0.

Another super cool model. It seems like the Cursed City villains are hitting all the Vampire Counts staples: Vampires, skeletons, zombies and animal minions. Looks Stormcasty. I wonder if this guy will be one for Cursed City, too. Could well be one of the 8 heroes.

Let me start by saying that this will be my final post in relation to this comment thread. Partially because I believe that I have made my position sufficiently clear at this point. Partially because the discussion is getting pretty far off topic at this point. But mostly because I don't find my posts to be having any effect, and it is becoming frustrating. The irony given the subject of this discussion is not lost on me. I will sum up my position one more time. Feeling like your choices matter is important in games. In the current state of shooting, you feel like your choices matter less and less. Regardless of other concerns like balance, that warrants taking a look at the direction of shooting in AoS once the new edition rolls around. It's getting tiring to have to keep laying this out again and again just to be met with responses that completely fail to engage with the point. It's tiring having to clarify that I don't hold positions like "all shooting should be weakened", "I want the metagame to be static" or "you should be able to just throw random models to gether and win against top lists". The same goes for being hit with statistics about tournament win rates again, after already explaining several times why I don't think they are pertinent to my position. Similarly, I don't appreciate being told that I just don't know what shooting units can do or that capturing objectives wins games. Or, indeed, that I am deny the objectivity of truth because I think people's enjoyment of a game matters (seriously?). This latest thing about agency really examplifies what I think is going wrong in this discussion. I lay out why I think interactivity matter. I receive a reply talking about agency. I formulate my response by picking up that term. And finally I am told that I am wrong because agency is not reduced by the current state of shooting, only interactivity is. When my point was only ever about interactivity in the first place. Like I seriously believe the current shooting mechanics (or indeed the mechanics of any game) could reduce your potential to exercise your free will. Plus, an extra, unnecessary insinuation that in talking about interactivity I am performing a "slight of hand trick", like I am somehow arguing in bad faith. So yeah, that's as far as I am willing to engage in this discussion. Since you seem to be into philosophy, I advise you to pick up the habit of charitably reading literature, and not to assume that authors are incompetent, dishonest or deluded as your default position.

Not going to lie, but I would derive a certain amount of satisfaction from the Stormcast Eternals becoming the Stormcast Temporaries.

Reminder that this exists:

I think that's a good theory, as well. I don't know much about Belakor, but it seems he has some association with shadow and is occasionally referred to as the Dark Master. Plus, we have this image which could be the wing of a new Belakor model:

The Shadow Lord definitely could be the being that rescued Ven Brecht. And Ven Brecht has all these connections to vampires in his background.

I'm going to place my bets and say this is the start of the rise of Soulblight Gravelords. I think we are looking at the beginning of the narrative that will ultimately lead to Nagash losing his complete dominion over Death. EDIT: The Winged Shadow could be the same creature that rescued Ven Brecht. And Ven Brecht's background is full of vampire stuff. I think that lends a bit of credence to this idea.

I'm going to throw out the possibility that the target is Nagash and the shadow lord is a new up-and-coming vampire. This could be the beginning of the narrative setup to explain how Soulblight become their own thing.