Ganigumo

Hopefully something that puts squig herds to good use, If it lets squigs use the loonshrine I'll finally have an excuse to paint that thing up.

That seems remarkably similar to the current system but with more steps, also that feels like it would slow the game considerably if big hordes of units were involved but maybe i misunderstand it.

Elite units tend to be less wound efficient to make up for the better stats, which doesn't always translate into increased defense, and losing even a single model in an elite unit hurts way more than losing a few clanrats or grots. This especially hurts stuff like trolls, or ogors, as each body in the unit is worth 40-50 points, which would equate to 7-8 grots in a pure point comparison, but expensive elite units need each body more, hordes tend to bring the bodies exclusively as extra wounds. At the moment this is kind of balanced since you need to inflict more wounds to cause an elite unit to take battleshock in the first place. If bravery ended there maybe we could get rid of inspiring presence, but as it is there are a LOT of armies that were given tools to mess with bravery in some form or another, and the effectiveness of every single one of those rules is amplified by the strength of the unit it is fighting. Without inspiring presence rules like reducing bravery, forcing extra models to flee, or rerolling successful battleshock tests will destroy things like Gutbusters and brutes. Just imagine what playing 3 bravery Trolls/Brutes, or 4 bravery ogors would be like without inspiring presence. This stuff is why I dread having to play against lumineth. Gitz can at least get a lot of CP to maybe counteract the double cost spell, but gluttons/ironguts will literally evaporate unless they completely destroy the unit, or the Scinari Cathellar fails her emotional transferrance.

AOS got away from strength and toughness (which existed in fantasy) to make things simpler, you no longer need to reference a table during damage to see what wounds. I think it was a good change, even if there are some oddities involved. Having strength/toughness doesn't make the game more interesting, it just serves to better represent the reality of the situation, but comes with a cost in extra rules. If you really get into the details though its hard to justify what strength should look like anyways since it would realistically apply to both wounding and damage characteristics, and in a fantasy setting, possibly breaking through armor as well. it hurts elites and horde armies, but not MSU. So the reality is the best thing to run would be spamming minumum sized units that don't need to worry about battleshock tests unless they're basically already dead. so instead of 30 phoenix guard, it would become 3 units of 10. The problem is that units of 10 generally aren't durable enough to hold anything, so there would be a shift towards units that are more useful in small units, which tend to be shooting units. Think stuff like irondrakes, handgunners, and skinks. The 40k version sounds pretty appealing, at least the autopassing on 1. Losing only 1 model on a failed battleshock feels like it might make hordes too good in aos though, especially since hordes in aos don't need to worry nearly as much about being shot down before they get where they need to be.

As a rules change it would be a MASSIVE shift to not have inspiring presence that would make some armies unplayable (gitz at least), it would hurt elite units more than cheap ones, since even losing one troll/ogor/brute to battleshock is a big loss, stuff like mournfang and skullcrushers might become unplayable because of the liability. The game would 100% shift to MSU screens instead of hordes, this would minimize battleshock losses since its tougher to target multiple units, encourage shooting, both to aid in positioning of the screens, and so they can contribute regardless of their positioning. Hordes would be literally erased from viability due to all of the horde killing spells. As an example, the slann lore in seraphon has a spell that rolls a die for each model in a unit, and on a 5+ inflicts a mortal. Without inspiring presence that would kill 20 grots, and make 16-22 flee due to battleshock (around 240 points worth of grots), and it is one of the weaker horde clearing spells since it is only a 5+. Grot heroes have low bravery as well, so even if you did use this version of inspiring presence you would only save a couple more grots. This is almost feasible already for seraphon anyways, but at least they need to take a couple turns to nuke down the heroes first. Something that might work would be to let the unit take the test at its unmodified bravery, but that would leave us in the same situation as before except stuff like grots and skaven will sometimes lose a few models.

Removing/limiting Inspiring presence would be an absolute DISASTER for elite units (which have already had a hard time), it would move us away from hordes and into MSU to mitigate losses from battleshock, and would benefit shooting units who can force battleshock tests from a distance. Gitz would become unplayable. They already aren't particularly strong but without inspiring presence the entire army would just fall apart. I'm sure there are other armies/builds that would be in a similar boat.

Lack of impact in the battleshock phase is an issue, there are too many armies that don't seem to care about it at all. That being said, forcing your opponent to spend a command point to keep their models from running away is still valuable, since then they can't use that command point on a different ability. Bravery bomb can't work without serious overhauls to bravery across all warscrolls since at the moment destruction will usually autolose to it. stuff like brutes and trolls only have 6 bravery, so any penalties can cause you to lose HUGE amounts of models (In several games already I've lost trolls to battleshock even with only 1 casualty), ogors tend to have around 7 as well so they will also get wrecked by it. Bravery reducing shenanigans hurt elite multi-wound models way more than single wound models, since its effectiveness is multiplied by the amount of wounds the model has. Normally multi wound models have lower battleshock rolls because its per model slain, not per wound but bravery reducing abilities get around that. Really all that needs to happen to "fix" the battleshock phase is to stop printing bravery 10, or free army-wide battleshock immunities. If you want to see why bravery bomb can't work, shouldn't work, and creates major NPE just wait until we start seeing the Lumineth vs Gutbuster/Ironjawz/Gitz matchups. Lumineth can pass their battleshocks onto the opponent, and they can force Inspiring presence to cost 2CP.

Yeah the snufflers can only use the ability once per turn, but multiple units of snufflers could use it on the same unit causing mortal wounds.

I think that should be dependent on the monster, big expensive tough ones should always be dangerous to blobs, even if they're on the defensive, where cheaper monsters like aleguzzlers and ghorgons need to be screened as they will lose some of their punch if they're struck first and be caught on a weaker profile.

The solution is to have the monster be able to threaten those 20 dudes to the point where they need to avoid combat with it. if your monster is going to kill 10-15 models, and the 20 dudes are only going to put a handful of wounds into the monster, there becomes an incentive to take the monster. Just imagine what the aleguzzler would look like if his club was 2 damage, his headbutt 6, and his kick 3, it would raise his average damage to ~9 against a 4+ save from ~4 damage, plus he has the grab attack. sure he's not going to be holding points, but blobs of infantry will get smashed by it, and even bravery 10 stuff would need inspiring presence to stick together.

Morathi seems more directly opposed to Slaanesh than chaos in general due to her history. A lot of the things they do does seem like it might be feeding khorne (blood for the blood god, murder, etc), and since Khaine is "dead" there is potential there for morathi to get "usurped" again but by a different chaos god this time. As far as Malerion's elves go I imagine his motivation will be to improve the elves. Morathi seeks power, Teclis seeks to recreate the old , Allarielle abandoned the old, and Malerion will seek to improve the elves. Specifically I'm imagining elves with dragon elements since Malerion is part dragon, but anything could do really. It would be reminiscent of the dark eldar, with stuff like scourges, wracks, mandrakes, etc. The elves of the old world weren't strong enough and malerion can use his power to make them better. Also they've been dropping hints at the new dark elves being soon, but it does seem unlikely we'd just get a new army. I'm betting Orruk Warclans is the way battletomes will go though, and this new battletome will be "Aelves of Hysh" and contain the updated DoK rules, as well as the malerion stuff. Lumineth realmlords was also built in a way to accomodate the introduction of teclian forces in the same way.

The attack sequence ends for that attack. It means you don't roll to wound for that attack and it only deals the d3 mortals. Its worded much like gloomspite's spider venom rules. As opposed to the khorne bloodletter rule that gives a mortal on a 6 to hit, but you still get to continue the attack (roll to wound, save, etc.)

I agree. A terrain piece is one of your allegiance abilities (since its free). If you want the perfect example of how bad they can be just look at Gitz. It does basically nothing unless you're running grots, but takes the place of a much needed allegiance ability. If you're playing spiders/trolls/squigs you don't have any allegiance abilities you can rely on. Its a sick model though. In an ideal world terrain pieces would be pointed instead. Specifically for SoB though I would love to see them be able to break terrain instead, even if its just one of the gargants.

You can only make normal moves in the movement phase, meaning you can't run in the charge phase. This battalion gives run & charge to units wholly within 12" of the big boss during the charge phase. What this rule is doing is making it so that the "aura" is being checked in the charge phase. If a unit is wholly within 12" and that unit ran in the movement phase, it would be able to charge. The timing of when a unit gets the "run and charge" buff doesn't matter as long as it has it before it declares the charge.

At this point I'd be happy with a box of Destruction endless spells, with hand, foot, and maw of gork that can be cast by any destruction wizards.

Its actually just one thinnish coat of carroburg crimson shade over corax white.

@RUNCMD These are my flamingors, the tzaangors need a bit of touching up but I'm quite happy with the colours.

Not looking for something thats gonna win tournaments, but I'm also looking for something that won't get run over. I went for GoS mainly because I couldn't make the other subfactions work for what I want to do. I have a preference for Arcanites over Daemons for the most part, and love Tzaangors which don't fit well into any of the subfactions. I've been painting up a few tester tzaangors (pink "Flamingors") and really want to get at least a few of them on the table. Pyrofane is cool, but working tzaangors in is tough since you're really encouraged to spam acolytes, and the artifact is begging to be on a LoC. Cult of the Transient form is what I would love to play, but I played a few games (with unpainted models 🤢) and it just doesn't function the way you want it to. CP are hard to come by so the chance of getting Tzaangors is pretty low, Alter-kin Coven will trigger maybe once a game, and for the cost its just not worth it, Kairics are also quite weak in melee so them fighting when they die doesn't really accomplish anything, and to top it off it has the worst command trait/artifact in the book. Curseling is mainly a cool model, but since this is GoS he's valuable as a double caster and will be decent on a balewind. I could swap him out with something since this list does have 11 casts if I count the balewind vortex. Keeping that number high enough to get the first LoC early seems key to GoS. My other consideration was to run Hosts Arcanum. Fatemaster running with a few screamers and the amulet could be a useful power pair, and I could get pregame moves on a few of my units. I'd also be able to drop the amount of casting I'm taking down a bit for more flexibility.

So now that Tzeentch finally has its update I'm trying to put a list together that I can work towards painting. I've had a lot of trouble putting together arcanite lists with this book, since it seems I can never fit what I want into it.What I'd love to play is Tzaangor Coven, but you can barely squeeze a workable list in that battalion since you want the tzaangors in 20s and it won't cover your battleline. I did put this Guild of Summoners list together that I like the most but I'm looking for some critique before I start painting. Allegiance: Tzeentch- Change Coven: Guild of SummonersKairos Fateweaver (400)- Lore of Change: Bolt of TzeentchCurseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the FutureThe Blue Scribes (120)- Lore of Change: Unchecked MutationTzaangor Shaman (150)- General- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)20 x Tzaangors (360)9 x Corvus Cabal (70)- Allies6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)Balewind Vortex (40)Tome of Eyes (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 70 / 400Wounds: 133 I'd love to fit a Fatemaster in, but I think I wouldn't have enough bodies/wounds if I tried to squeeze him in. Corvus Cabal are cool models and are just there for chaff since I could fit them in instead of just brims.

This is a reason to go bloodtoofs IMO. Drop the wierdnob, take a megaboss on foot who is pretty durable (7 wounds 3+ save) who can take the artifact to autocast hand of gork once per game. getting brutes/gruntas with +2 charge, and 'ardboyz with +4 to charge is icing. Then you can give your extra artifact to the Megaboss on Maw Krusha.

Yeah the issue with kairics is that they just don't do much on the table. the +1 nearly unconditional +1 to unbind is good, but with 32mm bases and 1 attack each they don't hit very hard, their shooting attacks are only ok unless you're building around it (pyrofane + warpfyre does make them nasty) and a 5+ with a 6+ ward isn't exactly durable. Unless you're playing pyrofane their main job is probably going to be screening or sitting on uncontested objectives in small units, but they're not pointed for that job, plus Cult of the transient form needs literally all the help it can get 😥 Compared to comparable units they're priced quite a bit higher. Grots would be ~60 for 10, skinks are 60, bloodreavers are 70, cultists are 70. We should pay a premium for the ranged attack and casting but a 30-40 point premium is a bit much.

He was too close to being able to cast spells against Seraphon/Nagash/Lumineth and it interfered with the Magic Dom's fantasies.

we definitely got off lightly but Pinks might still be problematic. I realize that 200 points for 50 wounds was fine if you weren't abusing it, but the second you start healing them it goes off the deep end. Rolled a 1 on battleshock? you restore somewhere between 5 and 30 wounds. Got an emerald lifeswarm? add an extra 5-15 wounds. Fold reality? as long as you don't ****** up its and roll a 1 its an extra 10-30 wounds. The fact that Fold reality and destiny dice are part of the book means they need to be pointed appropriately for this insane amount of value from restoring models, since we actually have a lot of control over it. Its not beyond reason to have a unit of 20 pinks (100 wounds) require 150+ damage to take out. Pinks could probably be costed at 250 and still be useful if you're healing them. I'm very sad arcanites didn't go down though, Kairics at 90 would be fine (for now at least) and tzaangors could actually stay at the same cost with no issues if the unit size changed to 5-30. 10 Tzaangors lose their punch too early since 2 slain models removes the extra attack, but 15 would be the ideal size, and it would save points without just a cost decrease.

if you take thundertusks in multiples it gets better at praying, although there are definitely diminishing returns on huskards as you can only pray each of the lore prayers 1 anyways, and 1 heals yetis. I'm pretty sure the reason it was written this way was to stop it from sniping heroes. My suggestion would be to make it roll to hit normally, but still cause mortals if it hits, so heroes get a bit of extra protection from look out sir/cover/etc. If we kept the table, made it a roll to hit instead of just a 6+, we could make it hit on a 4+ and would go from 2/4/6 average damage to 6/8/10 damage, but our opponent could try to mitigate it for their fragile heroes. also while we're at it lets add 2 to everwinter rolls for thundertusks at all times. Each priest can attempt to chant 1 EVERWINTER PRAYER that it know in your hero phase. The warscroll for the Huskard on Thundertusk says it may attempt to chant one of the following prayers in your hero phase. So each Huskard on thundertusk can chant 1 of the "lore" prayers, and 1 of the warscroll prayers each hero phase. You may only attempt to chant each EVERWINTER PRAYER once per hero phase though.

Clanless/Choppas is a decent option for Maw Krushas too. the +1 save Command trait is good, and could be combined with the Chamon artifact, the 6+ ward artifact or just something designed to be more offensive. Loss of Aetherquartz is a hit though, and there aren't any great alternatives. allying in fungoids and wurrgoggs could work but that will cost us more points. I suspect we'll see more Savage Orruk hordes in Big Waaagh! now, which means we may it move to being primarily bonesplitterz, with a maw krusha/gordrakk at the helm, but time will tell.