Ganigumo

Fair enough but I think you're underestimating how often you'll actually be able to get most of a unit of 'ardboyz into combat. I know you "can" get a unit of 10 in and attacking, but if the enemy unit isn't in a similar formation there's gonna be holes where you can't attack, getting 12-14 into combat is a bit of a pipe dream imo. I still think ardboyz are good, but these very specific formations to maximize units fighting are also vulnerable to irregularities.

Mostly just a monster for monster rules (plus it looks cool), it should also fit into the "monster" slot in battle regiment to keep the list at 4 drops, although I could probably run a sorc lord on manticore or upgrade the blues to something tough. Once we get coalition rules sorted out I'll have a better idea of what to do with it. As for the LoC between 13-14 spellcasts and blue scribes giving rerolls I'm not too concerned about having one on board right at the start of the game, although maybe i should be. I've got a feeling we can't bring in endless spells from other factions anymore. The new rules only let you pick units from your faction, and endless spells are from there. Maybe we can bring it in using ally points? Its not clear to me at the moment which is why I left it out. Daemonrift would be great in place of purple sun.

I've been playing around with some lists for the new edition trying to figure out my next project (my poor BCR are grey still), but I've come up with this list so far. Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes- Mawtribe: Boulderhead Battalions: -Command Entourage (Artifact) -Battle RegimentLeadersFrostlord on Stonehorn (430)- Artefact: Brand of the Svard- Mount Trait: Black ClatterhornFrostlord on Thundertusk (385) -artifact: Amulet of Destiny (5+ ward)- General- Command Trait: Lord of Beasts- Mount Trait: Rimefrost HideFirebelly (125)Icebrow Hunter (125)Battleline3 x Icefall Yhetees (120)3 x Icefall Yhetees (120)4 x Mournfang Pack (320)- Gargant Hackers4 x Mournfang Pack (320)- Gargant HackersUnits2 x Frost Sabres (55)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 116 Obviously there's some room for improvement, SH beastriders are probably better than a 4 model mournfang pack, but I think the FLoTT stocks are way up. This build gives him a 3+/5++ that reduces incoming rend by 1, and has a -1 to be hit in melee. MSU yhetees feel like they might be interesting to block unleash hell and be objective grabbers, and the deepstriking hunter + cats can threaten open objectives although they're mostly there to fill out command entourage. The one thing I was having trouble deciding was whether to go boulderhead or not. Tribeless would let me either take a CT to stop things retreating from the FLoTT, or Winter Ranger for d3 command points per turn from a hunter (although I think you lose out on the 1 CP per turn if your general is in reserve so that might be weaker in general) although leaving boulderhead would make taking the FLoSH a worse choice since he wouldn't get a free mount trait.

Anyone else think Guild of summoners stonks are up? New cogs is a steal at 45 points giving a spell to each wizard within 6". I threw this together last night, and while there's certainly room for improvement and modification once we figure out how coalition works (this list would love gor/ungor/ungor raider chaff, maybe grashrak, and the gaunt summoner on disk is cheaper and an upgrade) Plus I've got no idea if the vortex beast is still gonna work. Allegiance: Tzeentch- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners Battalions: -Command Entourage -Enhancement: Spell Lores -Battle Regiment LeadersThe Blue Scribes (135)- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm - Lore of Change: Bolt of TzeentchGaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (255)- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond - Lore of Fate: Glimpse the FutureCurseling, Eye of Tzeentch (185)- General- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum - Lore of Fate: Arcane SuggestionChangecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (135)- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation - Lore of Change: Treason of TzeentchBattleline10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)20 x Tzaangors (390)Units10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (140)BehemothsMutalith Vortex Beast (175)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsPurple Sun of Shyish (70)Chronomantic Cogs (45)Tome of Eyes (50)Total: 1965 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 112(147, pending horror changes) This list has 13 spellcasts if I wrap the heroes around the cogs, and it wouldn't be hard to bump the number up. I'd be interested in a ruling on whether kairics can try to cast their spell multiple times, but the current wording seems to indicate no.

Most books only had increases and it seems like the tzaangor drop is because they're now doing different costs for different armies. True but they weren't good in DoT anyways, nobody really played them there and they definitely got weaker with the edition change. Their increase there is probably just collateral damage.

Nevermind i'm dumb, maybe i'm thinking of an older edition...

They only get the d6 if they're not in combat, so you'll need a screen of some sort to do it.

The increase to scuttletide hurt, and stuff went up that had no business going up (some cities monsters did go down) but its not a crippling change. The list I'm looking to shift to is one running a command entourage and a battke regiment and looks something like: Allegiance: Gloomspite GitzLeadersWebspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295)- General- Command Trait: Prophet of da Spider God- Artefact: Shyishan Spider-sigils- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Gift of da Spider GodWebspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295)- Artefact: Totem of the Spider God- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky DistractionWebspinner Shaman (85)- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Scuttling TerrorsScuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (105)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95)- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of GorkBattleline15 x Spider Riders (300)10 x Spider Riders (200)5 x Spider Riders (100)5 x Spider Riders (100)BehemothsArachnarok Spider with Spiderfang Warparty (225)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsScrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)Scuttletide (85)Chronomantic Cogs (45)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 126

Ah I see spider riders are still unchanged. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

I'm sorry but what is this garbage? Tzaangors up 35!!! points, despite being on 32mm bases with 1" reach WHILE HORRORS WENT DOWN! What is this madness. They don't even have any synergy in the book.

Hag probably won't move to legends, FW still sells it, generally it goes out of productions before it goes to legends. But yes points are probably going up as well. Yeah all grabbing attacks are great, and dankholds have the "good" version of the effect.

The 180 point cost was for the older warscrolls. Nobody used them when 'Ardboyz were 90 and Brutes were 140 (50 point difference) now its 120 and 180 (60 point difference), plus heavy pig lists have been becoming way more common, and rumor has pigs at only 10 more points. I can see where brutes are hurt the least from the edition change but these points are definitely feel off if true. 10 points more for pigs is a no brainer when commands are locked to 1 a turn and you can only do 1 hero phase move per turn.

She combos insanely well with the Praetors?(bodyguards) since she can pass wounds off to them, and resurrect dead ones. Most of the command abilities to use the top bracket will ignore her effect, but those abilities are fairly rare. I really like her.

Its true, but internal balance is actually really important. Bad internal balance can make players feel like they're being punished for playing what they want.

Why would you ever run brutes with those changes? They were already weaker than pigs/ardboyz. Maybe thats the tax for not getting wrecked by the coherency changes?

Balewinds power was 100% a pointing problem, and not a warscroll problem. 40 points for an extra spellcast and extra range on your spells was a steal. It should've been 70+ points and it would've be fine. Its insanity they never bothered to increase the points on it.

duplicate post

I agree Glogg's megamob stonks are definitely down IMO. BR:Kragnos Spoiler: the CP generation command trait has always been iffy, Loonskin is often more reliable anyways, and it also buffs your durability. The mortal wound ward was useful for the Hag since her other artifact options were limited, but the new generic artifact is definitely better. I'll probably end up skipping the subfaction and running a troggboss with loonskin and a hag with the generic ward artifact if nothing else changes.

Yeah my biggest gripe with the new system is that I think battle regiment is stronger than an enhancement for most armies (stronger armies seem to need them less than weaker armies too) while enhancements are really fun and open up a lot of cool play options but are taxed pretty hard. It feels like they taxed fun instead of power. That said a Megaboss with arcane tome, flaming weapon, and a warchanter buff will be an absolute beast, sure we have destroyer already, but this combo can work multiple times and in the right list we could run both.

For double Cabbage running Gordrakk + MBoMK is probably a good option depending on points, and you're only increasing your list to 2-drops if you're trying to minimize them. One battle regiment with Gordrakk + 2 troops and the second with MBoMK and 2 troops, and then that gives you room for up to 6 more troops and 4 more foot heroes while staying 2 drop.

Rumors of unit size changes for BoC in the GHB, What do you guys want/expect? Ungors going up to 20s would make sense, although we'd lose out on cheap screens. It would be easy to rebox them with double the contents too. I've wanted Tzaangors to go down to 5s for a while now, but with the new reinforcement limits it would probably be best if they didn't Maybe Gors will also go to 20s? New coherency doesn't make them good at screening anyways. although they'll still be pretty bad either way. 60 Gors will at least cover a massive amount of board space.

I'm sorry it wasn't my intention to come across as confrontational, just to point out the issue with the way the rules are written.

There is no evidence in the rules to indicate that "taken" and "given" are different, or that Spell Lores and Prayer Scriptures are special cases other than the fact that they apply to more than one unit at a time which doesn't contradict the basic enhancement rules in 27.3 anyways that states enhancements are given to specific units. These rules are just written poorly, there should just be a short exception in Spell Lores and Prayer scriptures for Unique characters, even if you think the rules work as is, the fact we are having a discussion about it is proof of how poorly it was written.

Gordrakk can't take mount traits anymore, but otherwise yeah things don't look to bad for Ironjawz. Also the best battalion is actually battle Regiment, because it's way too flexible and low drops still controls turn order in matched play. Loss of an artifact hurts our Maw-Krusha's a bit if we try that but they're a bit killier now anyways. Bloodtoofs can do a 1-drop like this that's pretty decent: Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: BloodtoofsLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Command Trait: Get Da Realmgate- Artefact: Quickduff AmuletOrruk Warchanter (110)Orruk Warchanter (110)Battleline3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas15 x Orruk Ardboys (300)15 x Orruk Brutes (390)- Jagged Gore-hackasTotal: 1850 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 147 No magic, but the bloodtoof artifact gives us a free hand of gork once per game. Points are low but supposedly everything is going up anyways, and Ardboyz might even get a unit size increase. Da Choppas can run a similar list with more brutes/ardboyz and since their CA lets you buff multiple units you can drop down to 1 warchanter although you'll want more brutes/ardboyz and less pigs, plus the artifact for shamans so you can pick any artifact for your maw-krusha. Ironsunz has trouble doing 1-drops since 1 warchanter that can only target 1 unit might be too restrictive.

Don't forget about this sidebar: So even if they can take a spell they cant use it anyways. Just looking at the fatemaster and LoC it looks like the target is the unit emanating the aura. So the hero itself is the target of the command, which makes the most sense.