Zeblasky

Honestly, I would have actually gone for an Ironoak Artisan train on Phoenix still. He's very tanky, but he's not unkillable even with heroic healing. 3+/4++, that ignores 1 point of rend for no extra investment is pretty great. This frees you up to use Mystic shield and All out Defence on any other unit in your army and you can throw your Frost Birb to tarpit the hardest hitting units in your opponent army. If he still gets into too much trouble, just hit him with All Out Defense, so you could ignore 2 points of rend and heal him back up. This way, only rend 3, a lot of MW, or A LOT of no rend attacks (like 70 hits at once) could pose a threat to this setup. Well, and ista kill attacks as well. The idea with Alarielee is pretty good overall though, but I probably would place her in deepstrike though for safepeeking if you want to go second. Taking a treelord with her could be a good idea though, to maximise her AoE healing.

Yep, from hurricanum with mage. Even taking luminark for +1 unbind buff and +1 ward aura could be worth it when you take 2 griffons, hehe. Because you have 2 artefacts for +1, you can equp 2 Griffons like this for ultimate meme. Too bad the only source of healing for you is Emerald Lifeswarm, but having at least 2 endless spells here is a must. Only Nagash, Teclis or other autounbinds can try to stop you.

I do hope new dragons won't be Stormcast exclusive, that would be a huge dissapointment. Could still coalition them in CoS I guess.

True, this rule is not contradicted. But as I've said above, you've not using a COMMAND ABILITY, you're receiving a COMMAND, which is a different thing due to the rule wording.

And then you remember than warscroll rules take precedence, and by your logic Sisters and Handgunners have completely unlimited overwatch because they are not using those rules at all, heh. Mind you, I do not think that they do have unlimited overwatch, merely that your logic makes them so.

Here's the thing though. Nowhere it is said that unit received a command ABILITY. You cannot ussue more that 1 COMMAND, you cannot receive more than 1 COMMAND, yet you cannot use the same COMMAND ABILITY more than once per phase, that's the exact wording. And in warscroll abilities unit receives COMMAND once again. Seems like quite a deliberate wording, meaning that receiving COMMAND and using COMMAND ABILITY are different things. You can receive a command due to using a command ability or because of a batalion or warscroll ability, that gives the same effect, while not being a command ability. Add in the fact that the whole 6.1 rule is named "using command abilities" and it defines this as a sequence of spending CP, issuing command and receiving command. So you are not using a CA either way, at best you are using COMMAND, after which you cannot receive any other COMMAND in the same phase.

Give me a Forest Dragon model straight out of TW:W (or at least with a close resembalance), and I'll literally take 2 please. Not a surprise considering my avatar I guess (it's a gift from my gf btw). Add a Moon or a Star Dragon look alike, and that would be 4 please, yes, death to my wallet, all glory to great dragon models.

Oh god this again. For @frostfire - some people say that this type of ability uses CA only once and for the rest of the phase, just without spending CP. Some other think that those abilities trigger every time the conditions are met for every unit, giving effects of such CAs with no limitations. The quasi-consencus is that those abilities can trigger if a unit has not received any CA in this phase yet, and unit cannot receive a CA afterwards. Yet every unit with such ability can trigger it once and this CA can be used for a CP on other unit. Yea, it's weird, but at least this makes some sence. It the end, pray for a FAQ, this issue is a mess either way.

Yea, in Settler's gain with a Battlemage with an artifact you can stack 2 casts with +3 for spells and +4 for Endless spells. So we've started discussing Battlemage on a Griffon meta now x)

Wait, but you still get that +1 bonus to cast, because of wascroll rule, are you not? The rule was not removed, and battle is happening in Ghur, so...

Yea, Dreadlord has some good tankiness potential with 5+ ward, but he is not a tank without his shield (and even then kinda eh). His true value lies within his mobility and damage, so his best use is almost constantly running around with Strike then Melt away and hitting weak targets all round, while blasting big units with his breath. On a charge he does quite a better damage than 2 Concussors (2 more wounds on average, although his rolls are quite swingy), but you definetly do not want him to get charged and to fight anything scary, that's Phoenix job

For respected denisens of Hysh, a fresh battle meme for your consideration. P.S. Also this for a little extra argument (yes, this strategy is still probably suboptimal, but on paper looks fun as hell). Save Battlemage General 2+ 3.78 4.22 3+ 5.67 6.04 4+ 7.56 7.85 5+ 9.44 9.67 6+ 11.33 10.89 - 11.33 10.89

Well, if you want the most out of him, it's definetly Settler's gain, as Neil said. But if I had a freedom to do it and wanted to go full on scary meme... Settler's Gain, a blob of 2 Battlemages on a Griffon, Hurricanum with Mage, Luminark with mage. 2x275+280+275=1005 points already. Some cheap chaff at front around Battlemages would be nice as well though, like 1x30 Freeguild with Sword and Shields OR you can go for something more expensive, up to you really. Both artefacts for Battlemages are Silver-plated Wand and generic Arcane Tome. What do you get out for your blob of that setup? 1) Everyone has 6+ ward and +1 to hit. 2) +1 to unbind rolls for 4 Wizards. 3) +2 to casts for Hurricanum and Luminark, +3 to cast for Battlemages on Griffons, +4 if you summon Endless spells. 4) Your battlemages can cast twice. The big problem here though is that, unlike Hallowheart, Settler's Gain spell lore is pretty weak (and a healing spell would have been great for such a strategy) . Good thing than Battlemages on Griffons have 4 spells by default AND you can bring endless spells as well! And you will want to bring endless spells here. When 2 of your relatively tanky wizards have 2 casts each with +4 for ES summoning (I know that they can summon ES only once per phase, it just meas that they can still cast a spell with a +3 after), it's a crime not to bring Emerald Lifeswarm and some other ES. Honestly, with such a setup even 3 ES could be quite good here. Is it an effective strategy overall? Well, probably not... But it does make Battlemages to actually look scary and effective x)

Battlemage has exploding attacks on his Twin Beaks and it does noticeably help him. Too bad you can't help him with some rerolls now. But yes, General is simply a much better fighter, so just taking him and a foot mage is quite preferable. Just like with Dreadlord amd Sorceress.

Honestly, this, the thing about Sylvaneth and Kharadon coalition, the overwatch change... It does make you think that changes in this FAQ were done without much thought and proofreading by any CoS player. As usual I'd guess.

No-no, we were not talking about their actual viability. We were talking about which of the 2 worst units in the book is better x) And Battlemage actually does almost the same or even slightly better damage that General. Just for reference, Dreadlord with Lance on charge, General with Sword (Lance on charge for him gives .22 more damage versus 2+ save, so sword is gerenally better). Save Sorceress Dreadlord Battlemage General 2+ 3.7 4.85 3.78 4.22 3+ 5.28 6.69 5.67 6.04 4+ 6.85 8.53 7.56 7.85 5+ 8.43 10.38 9.44 9.67 6+ 9.28 11.04 11.33 10.89 - 9.46 11.04 11.33 10.89

That's literally my AoS 2.0 Living City army though x) I just had to change one Sister of Thorn into an Annointed for a new edition, and that was kinda it. I was ready for a new edition a year before, haha.

Sure, it's all true, but at the same time that's kinda all Annointed on Frost can do, just being a debuffing roadblock. His damage is quite low for the cost, a treelord (190pts) outdamages it by a wound on average.

Well, don't forget, that when a new battlepack with a different realm will come, this bonus will once again be conditional, heh. And yes, sadly you are right. There are no truly great dragons in AoS at this moment. When GW will finally make some good dragons, that I will like, my vallet will become one with the void though.

Weell, not so sure about that. A funny thing here is that Battlemage on Griffon on average does more damage that Sorceress on a dragon in combat (so without Breath attack in consideration), and versus 6+ save he does veeeery slightly more damage than both Dreadlord and General on Griffon as well x) And he's 275 points now, and gets his +1 to cast constantly, so I'd guess for now he is better that Sorceress x) A counter argument could be made that Sorceress is actually more useful due to having 2 CAs, one of them being unique. Both of them could be used to great effect on Black Guard, so if you have 20 or 30 of them, Sorceres on a dragon could be a good supporting pick for them. But that's pretty much it. By the way, Dreadlord with shield and Lance on a charge still does slightly more damage than General on a Griffon with either Lance or Sword. Add Dreadlord breath attack into equation, and on average he will do more damage per round. Hovewer, General damage is quite more reliable without those 3 D6 attacks.

Damn, I totally forgot that new rules changed the definition of normal move. Well, it was possible in AoS 2.0 x)

Good for a foot Sorceress, but does not help much with Dragon Sorceress to be relevant. She weakens her mount with 5+ save, herself does 1 no rend damage on average, and even with Flaming weapons casted on her dragons Claws (yea, she can do that, as you can buff mounts with spells and abilities) she's simply doing around the same damage as dreadlord with Lance. Or you can cast Mystic shield on her to get her to a 4+save, when all Dreadlords (besides Living City ones) will be at 3+ by default due to Shield. But in both cases what's the point of using her Sacrifice and spell on herself (which can still fail) to still be quite weaker than Dreadlord? If she had 4+ save and 2 casts or just was ~70 points cheaper, then she could be viable, but right now it's much better to take Dreadlord and Sorceress on foot, so you'd have both the competent fighter and a good mage instead of an expensive target. And the fact that FAQ placed her 5 points more expensive than Dreadlord without any changes to her Warscroll is the biggest joke of all here. She's weaker as a combatant, much more fragile, and her magic support is not even close to being able to compensate for that in any way.

Dreadlord is actually good both in Living City with crossbow, and in other Cities with shield in general. Just give him Amulet of Destiny (a generic artefact, 5+ ward), and his 14 wounds become even better at taking damage. While Sorceress on a dragon is one of the worst units in Cities sadly, useful only in some quite specific setups. When you can take Annointed on Frost Phoenix and make him a Wizard with generic artefact, why even bother with Sorceress?

Oh, I've also realized that Sylvaneth and Kharadon can no longer benefit from Hurricanum and Luminark AoE buffs as well. That's kinda sad.

Well, Yndrasta is still incredibly undercosted. But not because of her damage, Dreadlord on a dragon does around the same damage as her (more with a good breath attack), but because of her utility. She's tanky, gives battleshock immunity, debuffs Monsters and heals Stormcast. By the way, I'd say that pairing her up with a frontline unit of Stormcast or two would be quite decent as well. By the way, if you as you can easily take up to 3 artefacts here (1 generic, 2 from Settles Gain, if you take a right core batalion), you could really use Amulet of Destiny with a General on a Griffon or a Dreadlord. Having a single good monster with 5+ ward could be nice with new Rampages. But the biggest advice I've missed is that you could really use Emerald Lifeswarm (or any other Endless Spell) in your army. While Hurricanum is by no means tanky, it's still a 11 wounds 4+ save wizard, that you you can keep away from harm. And due to the new rules and your army, it can summon any endless spell with a +3 bonus to cast, making Emerald Swarm very reliable. And if you really want to maximise healing, you can dispell in your next hero phase with Annointed to summon it again for the 2d3 heals in that turn (Emerald Lifeswarm heals both when it sets up and when it moves). Yep. It's contoversial feature and FAQ will undoutebly change this situation somewhat soon. But, knowing GW, you'll still have enough time to abuse a tournament or two with it x)