Rors

Oh no! I saw it was a warcry band and I assumed they were thus another cult. That's a shame, the charge would ha e made them really efficient objective grabbers.

I only just came across the new darkoath savagers and my gut reaction is they are brokenly good in idolators. Double reinforce two units and blob them around a sorcerer. Opponent takes an objective, you teleport a unit and so long as you roll a 3+ on two dice to charge they take it and you have 30 wounds on a 5+ ward that actually smack well above what their warscroll suggests when you account for having 3 leaders in every 10 on damage 2 that you put in the front ranks.

The solution to the problem is more well designed books not to wreck the game by following up bad with worse.

For playability the army needs a huge overhaul of it's rules. New models would just be nice and generally there's one or two because that's a core part of GWs marketing strategy.

I would have thought that with each season they'd focus on releases that are on theme. With this being the 'monster' season I would have thought an extra monster with each release would be a good way to go. Especially for nighthaunt since they're very lacking in this area.

Being well ballanced is by definition not going to be s tier because to be s tier you have to power creep above the standard power level. S tier armies can make well ballanced armies feel weak by comparison and it becomes instinctive to use them as the comparison point for where ballance should go but that's a trap. It creates a doubling down on power creep and also skews the game really hard. For example in 40k a couple editions ago the power creep got to the point that certain lists just deleted the other side turn one. The game became extremely cookie cutter and was basically over by end of deployment. If the game is full of units of power similar to say Morathhi and bow snakes or others over powered stuff you have a ****** game where dice rolls are kinda pointless and stuff just gets deleted and it's about hitting first not strategy. None of the s-tier army lists are good or well ballanced. Specifically on the Nurgle question: In terms of being grindy and slow, you have the options to build a no drop list that comes in from board edges and units like plauge drones are fast enough and will delete screens. You can also build a summon list. You also have the ability to charge in the opponents turn. There's so many ways to build lists in this book. You can very different game strategy from what you build. No of them are s-tier, and that's good. The moment you have an s-tier build you get cookie cut spam lists and zero creativity. You'll get mopped up by broken lists but the problem is the broken lists not Nurgle.

Personally, I think a well ballanced book is way better than an 's-tier' army. I think this book has a surprising level of depth and while never being brokenly powerful it'll reward skilled play. As a community I don't think we should look to 'strong' books as the standard. The book has rule depth, fairly decent internal ballance and it's priced fairly as opposed to under or over costed, mostly.

I'm also really keen on Kragnos with his new rules. Lead belchers seems to have poor synergy with him as far as I can tell. You want to be both charging a unit of 8 for those impacts and using unleash hell. You'll be investing points in both and I suppose the utility is handy but it's points that feel hard to maximize return on. I've been thinking Kragnos, Frostlord Stonehorn, firebelly, 4x moungfang in units of 2, and cogs. In thunderbellies as a two drop list. Usually to counter Kragnos you'd try and spread out and screen, but then you'll get alpha'd by Mournfang.

The new teasers 100% confirms there's some form of nighthaunt release incoming. Looks like another squishy support hero..

I'm hesitantly optimistic. Some of the images released on the community page are definitely night haunt.

How about Kragnos with thunderbellies? Mournfang that can run and then charge 3d6+1 sounds fun.

It feels like the book the changes for StD we're focused on internal ballance rather than external ballance. They nerfed units that are relatively auto-takes because they're far better value than the rest of the book but I don't think they consider how these units/the book fairs into other armies. A 50% win rate is actually what you want. It would have been nice to see other options brought up so that there's multiple well ballanced builds rather than bringing the two ballanced builds down to parity with the rest of the book.

How does the rules interactions work with bringing back models for this? You drop down from 6 and now you can attack with 5 but you also change your coherency to do so. When you out models back and go up to 6, you can't move any of them. Doesn't that mean after bringing them back to 6 you'd be forced to remove one again because they're not meeting the coherency rules for a unit of 6?

Haha, how about Nagash and a mega-gargant?

I'd love to see a new book with better warscrolls. As a synergy buff army I'd love to see the whole 'oath' thing taken further. Like say, a unit declares an oath to destroy a unit it's fighting, you get +1 to hit and wound and an extra tend BUT for every model that survives at the end of the combat phase, you take a mortal wound. They need something to make them more powerful, but also if you just flat increased the stats it wouldn't feel that thematic or interesting.

Both the chariots keep going down in points each update.. at what point will they actually become viable? I have a few, love the models and I really wish there was a competitive use for them. At best they seem like chaff screens the are well suited to dealing with other small chaff screens. For the regular chariots this feels fine. Gorebeast chariots are meant to be heavy shock units that break lines.. they're slower than regular chariots and more expensive so they don't screen as well, and they're output really isn't much better. Statistically, d3 on a 2+ on the charge is slightly worse than a 5+ for each inch of charge rolled, the crew are they same and the gorebeast really isn't anything special. I'm not sure regular chariots are worth it even with the new reduction but if that trend continues there's a break point where they become efficient chaff. I don't think lowering cost really fixes gorebeast though. They really need a rules update, even bringing back single unit champions would help.

I found it surprising how much faith he had in his characters being durable too. I don't have the experience in the game to argue against him, it's encouraging to hear someone so passionate about Nighthaunt... He just seemed to have a very off meta idea about the units and the game. That said, with NHs terrible win stats I guess you'd have to go off meta if you want to discuss competitive lists.

I generally really like AoS Coach and Sotek is clearly a passionate Nighthaunt player but I was scratching my head more than a few times watching that video.

Cheers, if I can make at least one Lumineth or Tzeentch player cry it'll all have been worth it.

If it makes you feel any better, I've gone all in on Banshees. My list is below but it's still on the painting table to no games yet. I'll let you know how it goes though. Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Procession: Reikenor's Condemned - Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain Leaders Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135) Reikenor the Grimhailer (165) - General Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215) Dreadblade Harrow (100) Dreadblade Harrow (100) Knight of Shrouds (100) - Allies Battleline 10 x Chainrasp Horde (95) 10 x Chainrasp Horde (95) 10 x Chainrasp Horde (95) Units 8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150) - Reinforced x 1 8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150) - Reinforced x 1 8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150) - Reinforced x 1 8 x Myrmourn Banshees (150) - Reinforced x 1 4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75) 4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75) 4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75) 4 x Myrmourn Banshees (75)

Lore wise it would have been more cliche but way cooler if the dragons were near extinction from civil war. Different dragons being aligned with different grand alliances etc.

As a business model GW would be fools to lock these models to only stormcast. I suspect they'll be like Gotrek. Fluff wise they can have more connections with stormcast just like Gotrek has more connections to Dwarden.

I'd be interested to see how a range of draconic people are made district from Sepharon if it's a faction and not two hero monsters that can go in any Order list.

I'm thinking about putting Archaon in his own Host subfaction and bringing Be'lakor too. Two of their rules seem to interact really nicely: Archaon knows who has next turn and Be'lakor can shut down a model until your next hero phase. The mindgames + added reliability of combining these two rules seems very powerful. KNOWING you're going to shut down a Negash or some other big threat for two whole turns let's you move both of them around very aggressively.. of buff and watch the opponent mess their own turn up.

I agree with Ragest. The utility of Mystic Shield is really good. It stacks ontop of all out defense and can also be used on a different unit. If use could use all out defense more than once a turn the spell would 'only' be saving command points, but given its only available for one unit in one phase, the access to it a second time is golden.