Dankboss

AoS as a game is excellent, but to me the lore is lacking. While I never played Fantasy battles, I did know the lore, of which I much prefer as I found events had more meaning than, for example, some random city I've never heard about before being destroyed before it could be established as a thing. GW seems to like listing off a bunch of unknown events in unknown places to establish how powerful something is, or how bad something was. But if a county in the Empire got torched, It'd actually register with me. I think the lore of AoS is too big in scope for my liking. I think a combination of AoS game and mechanics, and Old World lore would have been ideal for me. As it stands, I'm pretty much 100% satisfied with AoS overall. AoS lore is certainly getting better.

I think, thanks to the relative cheapness of many Gitz units, you could build a list that has 3 Dankholds, however I wouldn't include other large models. In these circumstances I'd likely go all Grots and magic for the rest of the army. I genuinely think a unit of Dankholds can work, but the rest of the list needs to heavily account for their cost.

Interesting; I never realized that. At minimum, it can help mitigate alpha strikes. I use Fellwaters for skirmishing, so they rarely move up alongside my Rockguts. I'd expect a double row of Rockguts to be able to block sight to a tiny Madcap Shaman.

Do models actually block line of sight?

So having returned my Madcap Shaman with Mommet to my list, I played a game against Greywater Fastness, which was a good test for the emerging shooting meta. I kept Nightshroud on my Rockguts and that was a big deal, as I only lost 2 before they reached combat (most of the artillery and 30 gunners shot at them); the remaining 4 went on to kill 17 Longbeards in one turn. Hag Curse reduced the effectiveness of the 30 Handgunners and made for a smooth charge for my grots to absorb Stand and Shoot, losing just 5. While it was no hard edged list from Greywater, it was certainly a good test against massed powerful shooting. Now the Madcap would be fairly easy to shoot off if he's properly targeted, but all the Troggs going for his frontline made my opponent focus them instead, so I think the trick is to give them a better target than him. It was The Blade's Edge (or whatever it was called) which I think can be a pretty good mission for Gitz as Grots can easily hold multiple objectives at once, and speed isn't such a big deal. The game ended on my turn 2, as the Troggs wiped out his infantry, so he had nothing to hold with. Probably not the best game to test the army's effectiveness, but the indicators were there as to what we can do against shooting.

Realistically, there's no reason why I would ever tell someone legends units aren't allowed. They have points, and they're almost all mediocre in some way. It feels a bit arbitrary even, to say well they have points but they're also not allowed in matched play... As it stands, 60 gitmob grots are actually pretty decent.

My brother has been running the cavalry battalion with most of his army being mounted Slaanesh; 3 single chariots, 3 units of knights, Karkadrak etc, and it's been pretty effective. He can easily deal 16 mortal wounds in a charge phase. I think the chariots are a hidden gem, because it's pretty common for each to be dealing 5 mortal wounds a charge, and crossing the table in one turn to do it. The ability for all his chariots to reroll their charges lets them fish for higher numbers for the MW output. If the 'leak' is true and the cavalry is coming down in cost, I can see it being a more common strategy. It has some good alpha potential, and can pin a front line effectively, with just the chariots if they choose their targets well. Edit: his list is also sub-optimal because he's memeing on me with 2 Soulgrinders... If he tuned it and was more serious, I think there's potential.

I think the Troggboss qualifies despite not technically being one, but since he can throw down with them I think it counts. Easily my favorite model; big but not too big, has a great silhouette and presence, well designed and thematic rules, unique aesthetic and can bench-press a gargant. There's many other reasons, but he's so well rounded in all parameters that he's my choice by a mile. Runner up is the new Mega-gargants, for many of the same reasons (that we know of).

I don't think the Hag is unplayable, although I never actually ran her with an artifact myself. Her value has gone down, but I wouldn't say she's a stab in the foot.

As I said before, I doubt it; in fact I bet they're looking for any excuse to stop selling it knowing them. But either way, it's a big giant and if based correctly is a Son of Behemat as far as I'm concerned. I just don't see a competing large giant model sticking around when the shiny new ones are released, at least as a part of Sons.

Fortunately, we can build a Troggboss to essentially be immune to spells if we have to, and as I said before, just having a hero that can't be taken out at range is a big deal. Look out Sir, Cover, Nightshroud, Magical Resistance, Realmstone Studded Hide and Shiny Wotnot/ Glowy Howsit if we really have to, makes for a seriously tough hero to snipe.

The meta is shifting towards high armor and shooting right now, thanks to OBR, Tzeentch and Seraphon; both of which we have tools to deal with, while some armies are left in the dust with no answer. The Madcap Shaman's value has gone up recently imo, thanks to his -1 to hit from missile weapons spell, and Moonface Mommet. Now he's extremely vulnerable, so he's not easy to use, but still at 80 points he certainly has value and the tools for the job. I'm returning him to my list at least. Rockguts are a good investment due to their massive damage and 5+ ward save, so they'll always be a relevant and safe choice for most matchups. Now we're still probably going to get dunked on, but it's not hopeless. We'll have to see how the new GHB changes the aforementioned armies first. Vince Venturella was discussing another shift towards 'Spell Doms' with the release of Lumineth, so I think Skragrott does still have value with Cauldron to at least try and compete with a +2. This also increases the Dankboss' value a bit, thanks to his magic resistance. Having a hero that can't be sniped is value in its own right.

Exactly, which is one of the many reasons why I prefer AoS. The other being it's primarily a melee game.

The nature of AoS is that anything can hurt anything, unlike 40k, so that's a fundamental difference between Sons and Knights.

6 Rockgut Troggoths are always a good choice.

250 is a good place for the Troggboss, and Rockguts are great for 140; they're one of the few competitively priced GG units. They can't go further down, otherwise they will start replacing similar models in other armies, like Gluttons and Ironguts (which is what happened pre-Mawtribes). Some armies are not hard edged competitive, and pushing points down is not always the answer. Troggoths suffer by being Gloomspite, not by being Troggoths; that being the lack of proper allegiance abilities. Fellwaters could at least match Rockguts in points, and Dankholds ideally could go to 170/hoard discount at minimum. -10 on Troggherd is a nice pat on the head, I suppose. A 40 point drop on the Hag would certainly have been appreciated. My list is only -20 points, but that is an Endless Spell either way. GW seems to reduce the prices on otherwise stable models slowly as to avoid unintended consequences; I feel like every time we're given an inch, someone wants the mile. Either way, Troggoths can be pretty solid if you know exactly what you're doing, in a semi-competitive environment. Do remember that Troggoths are not priced in a vacuum as a stand alone army; if you want pure Troggoths, then problems quickly arise. That's why my force is only 75-80% Troggs. Furthermore, this new General's Handbook will change the game overall, so battleplans and the lack of say Ethereal (insert 3+ save monster-smash) will have effects beyond the simple pricing of models. We also need to look at how other, hard edged armies will be pointed. Until the PDF comes out, we can't know for certain. Overall, this year will be an easier ride for Gloomspite, because at least we weren't relying on Realm Artifacts to be relevant.

Saying that, I would have no issue someone using their preexisting Bonegrinder as a mega-gargant provided they swap the base.

The Bonegrinder is still 400 in the new GHB, so it's safe to assume he's remaining in Gitz and won't be a part of Sons.

I've used Aventis in Hammerhal and seen some success, even when he was overcosted. 300 makes me consider using him instead of a Hurricanum alongside my Lancers.

Yes, certainly. 3 is more than enough, and when you consider your opponent can have 3 as well, the board can become impassable to some armies. One of their primary uses is to create area denial, but there's a point where that becomes a bad play experience for some armies that simply cannot get around it. 3 should be enough for any army, and even then I've had bad play experiences with just 3; Darkfire Demonrift combined with Be'lakor can become egregious when he decides that your big thing is going to sit still on that spell that is dealing 6 mortal wounds to everything it touches and then do it again when he moves it. And this is a tame example of what's possible.

Better than no reduction I suppose. That is a whole other unit you can now include.

You saw the leaks? Hopefully he goes down 200-300 points at least.

How many units actually have more than one after save? This just means you get your armor save, and then you get one DPR.

Didn't GW state that Sons can be used in any army? One Mega Gargant at least.

So as per the leaks, regular Gargants can be taken in units looking at the horde discount.