LordPrometheus

What are you talking about? If you think Liberators charging turn 1 is an "auto win", you clearly haven't played very much with them.

Every time SCE gets anything even remotely decent, people ****** and moan instantly and cry for nerfs. It's pretty pathetic. Stormcast players aren't allowed to have nice things apparently.

Yes, he's there for the small buff and as another hero for those Deathless saves, and his warscroll ability can bring back even more Reapers. He would have been a third Necromancer, but not enough points.

What about something like this for Nagash? Does this just get wrecked by shooting meta? Allegiance: Grand Host of NagashLeadersNagash Supreme Lord of the Undead (880)- General- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Overwhelming Dread- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Vile Transference- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amethystine PinionsNecromancer (130)- Artefact: Grave-sand Timeglass- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourBattleline30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)Units30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Prismatic Palisade (30)Umbral Spellportal (70)Suffocating Gravetide (20)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 101

Here's a LoS list I was toying with. Any thoughts? Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan the Black Mortarch of Sacrament (360)- General- Lore of the Dead: Vile TransferenceNecromancer (130)- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourNecromancer (130)- Lore of the Deathmages: DecrepifySpirit Torment (120)Battleline30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)Units9 x Spirit Hosts (360)30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsPrismatic Palisade (30)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 133

I'm curious to see what it looks like now. Mind sharing?

lol I am calm. Asking for a source isn't a crazy thing, man.

Source?

Working on a list that's good against both shooting and magic. Feedback welcome. Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness - Damned Legion: Despoilers Leaders Be'Lakor (240) Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110) - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle - Spell: Mask of Darkness Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110) - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle - Spell: Mask of Darkness -Artefact: Diabolic Mantle Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - General - Sword - Command Trait: Lightning Reflexes - Artefact: - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle Battleline 10 x Chaos Warriors (180) - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle 40 x Chaos Marauders (160) - Axes & Shields - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle Behemoths Chaos Warshrine (170) - Mark of Chaos: Nurgle Battalions Plaguetouched Warband (180) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Emerald Lifeswarm (50) Darkfire Daemonrift (80) Eightfold Doom-sigil (40) Total: 1960 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 128 Basic idea is have a 3 drop list, park on objectives, and let them come to me. -1 to hit in shooting, -2 against my general, mortal wound shrugs, bouncing mortals back, healing units with Lifeswarm, Belakor to make Kroak or Teclis shut up for a turn, Pitch Black to block LoS, Demonrift to nuke wizards, Nurgle prayers to give +1 to save to a unit, etc. Seems solid on paper. Wanted to fit some Blightkings in here but they don't fit the battalion unfortunately.

Also the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak has the CA to give them reroll charges and add 1 to hit rolls. Pretty sweet.

NH can play with almost any army if you focus on objectives and play tactically. I've beaten Seraphon with them despite almost getting tabled because I played objectives and scared their Kroak with my deepstrike potential. Don't try to play them as a beatstick army, you'll get crushed and disappointed. Ghosties are very fun to play if you like the tactical playstyle. You won't be crushing any tournaments with them, and they definitely need an update, but they will still win you a few games.

NH suffer from the same fate as the Stormcast atm, ie, an outdated tome that was powercreeped into oblivion by the newer books. Naturally, these are the two factions I play at the moment. XD GW needs to update both of these quite badly.

Because nobody plays Fyreslayers lol

Yeah, I just feel it shows the sorry state of SCE at the moment, where our units are so overcosted and do so little for the points that an ally is our best bet for winning games at tournaments.

The fact that Kroak is our best unit in the current state of the game speaks volumes.

Also I would love to see Nagash get rules to lead Nighthaunt and know all their spells!

Agree with all of these, but I think the first one is the most crucial. Give us gravesites, and most of our problems go away. I'd also love to see our heroes go up a few wounds and go to a 3 up save. It doesn't make sense that ghostly heroes are so easy to kill. I also want Stormhosts. Give us buffs and reward us for picking certain combos of units. Give us a reason to use all the units in the book.

I've never heard of such a thing, and that's incredibly insane if it's true. GW sells digital content that I have paid for, and you're telling me it's not allowed at tournaments?? I refuse to accept that, and I would never patronize a tournament that refused to let me use content I paid for.

Tzeentch FAQ is out. Gaunts now only summon 5 pinks. Pinks now 220. Flamers 140. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/uzcd79hEjC1iO6SE.pdf

Went to a small tourney yesterday, rolled this list. Hadn't played in months, so was a little rusty. Allegiance: Nighthaunt Leaders Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130) Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200) Lord Executioner (80) Spirit Torment (120) - General - Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind Battleline 9 x Spirit Hosts (360) 40 x Chainrasp Horde (280) 10 x Chainrasp Horde (80) Units 10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180) Behemoths Black Coach (220) Mourngul (270) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Extra Command Point (50) Prismatic Palisade (30) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 131 The tourney was only three rounds, I went up against FEC, Seraphon, and FEC again. First game was extremely close. We played Blade's Edge, where the person who goes second can burn objectives they don't control. I went first each round, no double turns. I setup Olynder, Mourngul, Bladegheists, Lord Ex, and 10 Chainrasps in Underworlds, grabbed most of the objectives and just sat on them. Black Coach was charged immediately and died to a TGheist in first combat, then I killed it with my Spirit Hosts the next turn. Lost on the final turn of the final round as time was called, as my opponent barely got two more models on an objective to steal it from me. Lost 9 VP to 8 VP. Misplay here was not running Olynder and her Chainrasps to that objective on my turn. Game 2 vs Seraphon, Forcing the Hand battleplan, setup same units in Underworlds vs Kroak, Salamanders, and Slann with 2 Bastilodons. This army is straight up busted and would have tabled me, but I got the turn in Round 3 and won because I played the objectives the whole game and just sat on them. Black Coach died on turn 2 to shooting without doing anything. Made a mistake that turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as I got a WoT charge with the Bladegheists on the Bastilodons who were sitting on the primary objective and managed to steal it even though they only did one wound in two rounds of combat. 1+ saves are broken. Failed all magic casts this game for obvious reasons. My opponent was so scared of my deepstrikes that he stayed in his zone the first two turns and just allowed me to take the objectives, which is the only reason I won. But hey, I'll take it. Game 3, Knife to the Heart, me vs FEC again. I do the same deployment to Underworlds, He's playing 2 TGheists and all Crypt Flayers. Rushes my objective, charges his entire army into my 40 Rasps, does 36 mortal wounds with 2 Maw attacks (triple sixes TWICE in one game!), gets the double turn, and claims the objective at the end of my turn 2, winning the game. Made a crucial mistake here and left my general vulnerable to his 3' TGheist attack (Maw I think), which combined with the double turn left me helpless and no way to bring back Spirit Hosts. Failed all charges except one and all save rolls this game, no joke. Only made Deathless saves. The dice gods hated me in this one. Not much to be done about it. Black Coach actually brought some models back this game, and did a few wounds to a TGheist. Parting random thoughts: The Black Coach was little more than a distraction carnifex in these games. It was either immediately targeted down, or in the final game when I was more defensive with it and kept it behind my 40 Rasps, getting double turned really killed its effectiveness and it was just 220 points for 3 wounds to a TGheist and 3 Rasps restored. Kind of meh, but maybe the distraction element is worth? These new 6 objective battleplans really favor horde armies and deepstriking onto objectives. I'm going to look into getting more bodies into this list. All 3 games were close, despite the last one being a dicefest blowout for me, I was still in it at the end, and nearly captured my opponent's objective with Olynder and the Mourngul before I ran out of time. Lost to the double turn and dice gods here. Still a fun game. Deepstriking the Mourngul is a blast. He actually got to make 3 WoT charges this tourney and deleted 10 man units of Skinks and Ghouls with it. He's still overcosted at 270, but boy does he scare people and dish out some pain on the WoT charge. The Lord Executioner didn't do much other than give rerolls to the Bladegheists. They failed most of their charges this tourney, so I wasn't really able to utilize them effectively. Still like them. Spirit Hosts are my new favorite unit. Absolute beasts with a Spirit Torment. Our heroes are pathetically paper thin. It's absolutely awful how weak our heroes are for being so important to our army. 5 wounds is absolutely horrible. Strangely though, only one opponent knew to go for the Spirit Torment, and it really helped ruin my chances of a comeback in that game. Never cast the Pallisade once, but that was mostly due to going against FEC twice (no shooting) and Kroak who unbound every single spell. All in all, I felt surprisingly good about Nighthaunt. The new battleplans seem to match up well for us and our strengths. Even though I went 1-2, I was in every single game and nothing was a blowout. A little bit better dice luck and a couple fewer mistakes, and I could have easily been 3-0.

What about this list for the lulz and memes? Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash Leaders Nagash Supreme Lord of the Undead (880) - General - Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Vile Transference - Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Overwhelming Dread - Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amaranthine Orb Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120) Necromancer (130) - Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130) Battleline 10 x Chainrasp Horde (80) 10 x Chainrasp Horde (80) 10 x Chainrasp Horde (80) Units 30 x Grimghast Reapers (420) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Umbral Spellportal (70) Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 0 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 92 Basically buff the Reapers into the sun with the heroes and just watch the bodies fly. With so much regen on them, they'll basically never die, and if they do, just CP them back to life. Use Nagash as a distraction carnifex and hero nuker.

I'm pretty much leaving my SCE on the shelf until we get a new tome, which sucks, because I absolutely LOVE them. All this new stuff is completely pointless for us to fight against. We don't have the tools to beat any of the top meta armies anymore. Like @jhamslam said, we had one counter to a certain playstyle, and now that's gotten countered. Time to pray to the GW gods for a good update soon. ****** the SCE "haters", if they really even exist anymore. I can't think of another army that's this irrelevant and underpowered.

Agreed. He needs 10 wounds, a 3+ unrendable save and a 5+ FNP to be worth his points, even with the discount. 300 points gets you WAY more value in most other armies.

Yeah, I can't see GW giving us the new battalions only to take them away 7 months later. That seems insane, especially since covid happened and ruined most of the tournaments.

Good question. I haven't seen that listed anywhere. Also, there's no reason for the Mourngul to be freaking 280 points. For what it does, it should be 180-200.