NinthMusketeer

Well that is at least one crapshow I am less worried about than excited to see how it splatters.

I am afraid it will be a major overhaul instead of the small tweaks that are actually needed.

So what's the deal with battalions? I can't stand the sound of the guy's voice in the leak video (seriously is it like sandpaper in the ears for anyone else?) So I am limited to second hand knowledge.

Believe it or not there are any number of ways in which the double turn could be counterbalanced without removing it. That seems to be the approach GW is going for and it would be best not to judge it before we know what the actual rules are*. *I am of course well aware people will absolutely solidify their opinion on something they know nothing about anyways, but I can try.

Page 18, first paragraph; "Periodically, bands of pink-skinned Tzaangors had emerged..."

Hey so maybe I missed the discussion already but did anyone else notice that flamingors are cannon as of Be'Lakor?

Yeah. IMO they should at least be able to take Undivided to, you know, benefit from the main StD allegiance ability.

10-wide, 3-deep is not unreasonable, so 30 skaven attacking. The other 30? Give those front ones +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +6 to bravery on battleshock tests. 30 clanrat spear attacks at +1 to hit and +1 to wound causes the same average damage as 60 without those buffs. And you can double that with 1 command point for gnash-gnaw, rather than needing to use multiple command points to buff several smaller units. And if things get bad it is only one cp to give that unit battleshock immunity as well. Oh, and for the better performance they cost a premium of less points.

Because of how Skaven size-scaling buffs work a 60-man clanrat unit is not 1.5 times as strong as a 40-man; it's at least twice as strong if not more so. A 60-man clanrat unit is worth far, far more than three 20-man units. One can see how this creates a problem when trying to assign point costs.

That's just it; strength and toughness stats COULD fix the problem you are talking about. But they wouldn't. They would just be shifting it around so different units do/don't feel right, and we would have a more complex way of being in the same situation we are now. And rocket tag? Man AoS is a pillow fight compared to the insane offensive power in 40k. Instead of units melting its entire armies! S&T has done nothing because GW does not want to put in the effort of utilizing it correctly. It is like giving a mechanic a new adjustable wrench that they will only use as an improvised hammer anyways. The theoretical application is there, and I am totally onboard with S&T in that it COULD be a big improvement--but I am also well aware that it wouldn't be. I have the same conundrum with points; once upon a time I bemoaned the lack of granular points in AoS, where a unit kitted out with special weapons would cost more than one without, where unit upgrades were options instead of automatically included. But then I looked at 40k and realized it doesn't make things better, it just throws in extra steps before the same end result.

I question some of the ideas, like no damage spillover, strength vs toughness, etc being ported over from 40k. Why? Because I also play 40k and that game does not feel better or more fun due to their inclusion. I think people are imagining the concept but forgetting the reality that GW absolutely cannot be trusted to execute such a concept evenly. It ends up being just another layer of balance to be screwed up.

Well they thought +1 to all saves was an appropriate subfaction ability so it could be worse!

Much of the damage spilling over is from MWs, specifically multiple instances of 1 mortal wound. Removing damage spillover would just make those elements, already the strongest, even more dominant.

A small but notable update to the core rules; champions can now pick their command trait (if it is not fixed by sub-faction). This is to provide a slight boost for armies that do not have a sub-faction. The Krulghast Excruciator has been added as a champion option. It is likely that the Death warband tables will need a complete overhaul come the Gravelords battletome so now is a particularly good time to give me any feedback you have regarding Death choices! Sons of Behemat have arrived to the Destruction warband tables! Given their unique circumstance some special rules had to be made such that they would work in the context of Path to Glory.

Sub-factions did indeed move very quickly from 'optional thematic choice' to 'mandatory for the army to be viable' but I think all three people that were surprised by that have gotten over it by now. Still sucks.

Yes--the idea is that any time a unit is being put onto the board as part of your army it will gain the same sub-faction keyword. During list creation the choice was made for your army to be Morgaunt, thereby everything that is part of your army will have that keyword (unless they already have a different court keyword). Regardless of when or how that unit is put on the battlefield.

I really hope the limitation on debuff stacking does not come true. A limit of -1 is just lame and leads to all sort of stupid situations like where a unit has run, is shooting through obscuring cover at a unit with it's own penalty ability and... -1! In practice it serves to remove the effect of abilities from the game and make shooting in particular super reliable because deploying a counter is essentially saying that shooter has free reign to stack on as many penalties as they like with no consequence. AoS has the added problem that there are a large number of units with abilities already offering +/- 2 in a single ability. Additionally, stacking penalties is generally difficult to do and requires a large enough investment to be fair. Certainly it is less of a problem than stacking saves or simple MW spam. A cap of -2 I could get behind as a decent compromise though.

As long as it is clear which unit is which there shouldn't be a problem at all. If anything such customization is encouraged so long as it doesn't cause confusion! In practice what that means is a dino carrying a ranged weapon should have a clearly ranged weapon as part of the conversion. A stegadon with a chief should clearly have some sort of leader mounted on it. And so on.

The core rules FAQ is where this is covered; summoned units gain the same faction keywords as the army. So when a ghoul king summons a unit they DO have a grant court keyword if your army has one.

I am actually dreading the inevitable coming of AoS 3rd. I do not trust GW to only look at mechanics that need fixing, I fear they will also try to fix rules that aren't broken and end up adding as much flaw severity as they remove. I have a nagging concern that 2nd edition will be looked back upon as the golden age or the good ole days, a high point rather than a step on the road forward.

Well, we know via Kroak that Destruction will break into Excelsius, and considering the horde Gordrakk has heading that way it could get wiped off the map entirely.

Be'Lakor specifically refers to it as a loss, and retreating because he wasn't going to stick around with that dward being there. The dark gods are laughing at him as he retreats for failing at the last second. Be'Lakor then considers all the success he has had despite the final failure, and how witnessing that being gives him useful knowledge. He definitely did not fall back because he already won. And Chaos fights Chaos all the time. Like literally, it is a constant thing that has always happened and will always happen. Between the great game and standard mortal infighting Be'Lakor is noteworthy here but it isn't some unprecedented thing.

Yet it was Kroak who sent Gardus to Vindicarum so it wouldn't fall; he already knew about the storm, Be'Lakor's attack, and that Gardus would make the difference. It isn't clear who is playing who here. Gromthi is probably Grungni; he doesn't act like Grombrindal's character does, and Be'Lakor actually feels fear on seeing him. Despite the battle for Vindicarum still being undecided Be'Lakor immediately flees the scene entirely. Grombrindal is a badass, but he isn't THAT badass. Be'Lakor also sees this entity as "returning" while Grombrindal hasn't been gone.

Me after reading the story: oh that seems pretty straightforward, the reviewers probably didn't mangle the story as badly this time. Thread: All the realmgates in Chamon have been destroyed. *facepalm*

For my part, when I say something is broken/awful on release day, that is exactly what I mean. But I also don't say it very often, maybe there's a connection...