Thamalys

By deploying the impossibly cunning strategem that many other factions have to resort to in order to deal with this particularly feisty Son of Grimnir: "Avoid at all Costs" He has a 4" move - that's the only thing we can hope to leverage, and even then I am sure that some crafty Order player can cast something / take advantage of some ability to project him right in front of our general (whom is positively going to be utterly dead at the end of said turn). As NH we have some pretty great mobility (and thus some slim chances to avoid this murderball), but we miss the one thing that can keep him at bay, i.e. feeding him one unit of (say) direwolves per turn (bearing in mind that if you happen to have something else within 3" of said direwolves... well.) I believe is fair to say the thing is non-killable by conventional means. You need something with a huge number of attacks (preferably 1 damage each, as >1 gets down the drain anyway...) / model, which is easier said that found - he's a tiny model, so there are only so many models we can pile in. 30 reapers spending 3 CPs for +2 attacks each (Vampire Lord and mounted KoS) and +1 to hit (KoS on foot) and a GoS nearby may have a chance? Fighting in two ranks, 10 in would mean 40 attacks, hitting on 3+ wounding on 2-... still not enough, probably. Skaven players shoud be able to do it with a unit of 40 (Death Frienzed and buffed) plague monks, I guess... But our Reapers don't come back, so it's just not worth it. LoN... maybe I'd try. Or not. No, probably not - just run away from him.

You could have both! I currently run 2 units of 5 Blood Knights and a unit of 20 Reapers, with a VL around (~60 attacks [ah, the bell...] on 4+ re-rolling against units with 5+ models? Yes please...). The Reapers stay on the objective that matters and wait for the opponent to get to them. Shooting, MWs... no problem, 1 CP after they're back. The two units of Blood Knights flank the field instead, supported by VLoZDs and screened by wolves (because we so desperately want to get the charge). Pro tip: 5 Knights fit on almost every piece of terrain you have on the mat... suddenly, they have a 2+ against anything with no rend!

What about investing those 100 pts you have currently allocated to extra CPs (as @Sauriv correctly pointed out, you can only buy one now anyway, and you have extra 2 CPs from your 2 battalions in any case) into a KoS (on foot)? Having the Banshees hitting on 3+ might be a rather punchy trick... Probably not the best choice for a Dreadblade general... I'd go 100% with the Gryph-feather charm instead. Other than that, yes, it's very low on wounds indeed... you have a decent anvil (SHs) and a solid hammer (Revenants, Banshees if you have them hitting on 3+), yes. Not so many bodies to camp the objectives, though, and - crucially - zero screens as well, everything you have is stuff you definitely don't want to sacrifice. Khorne, Skavens, Deepkin, Orks, BCRaiders... they'll munch whatever you throw at them, including your SHs as you only have 3 in each unit. SHs are uber-tough in units of 9, but a unit of 3 is "just" 9 wounds on a 4+ etheral plus the 6+ ward save... very, very dead. Finally: Reikenor is there for the cogs only, but the whole investment is 170+80 pts... that plus the extra CPs is 20 Reapers - in fact, where are the Reapers?! Yes indeed!

I agree 100 %. Let us hope... Just played with Legion of Blood in a two-day (narrative, but still...) campaign @ WH_world: 5-0 instead of the usual 2-3 / 3-2 I get with our beloved NHs... throwing summonable units in the throng and getting them back 1 CP later is too much of gap between NHs and any of the Legions... I, personally, am praying for gravesites. And no, I don't think we already have that - in the form of Legion of Grief...

I like the box - but that's because I unconditionally love our beuatiful NHs. You get only one hero - incidentally, one that brings ZERO synergies/buffs onto the board (ok, ok, Deathless Spirits, but other than that...). I like said hero very much indeed, but I believe there are much better choices out there for 200 pts. Having said that, the units: I'd say that's a decent mix. No utterly useless ones (say, Glaivewraith Stalkers...) and a good blend of useful thing - IF, taken in bigger units. Thing is, I'd probably buy two of these boxes (20 Reapers, 20 Harridans, 20 Chainrasps, 20 Bladeghiests... now we are talking), were if not for the fact that you get two Craven Kings. The model is such a joy to paint that I might still do it, though So yes, if you have a stash of NH heroes somewhere to add these guys to, and/or you can double the purchase to get a solid force going... yep, why not? Looks cool to me!

I run in some occasions two Shroudguard battalions, one lead by a mounted KoS (2 units of 5 Bladegheists) and the other led by Reikenor (also with 2 units of 5 Bladegheists). The Kos-led one is there to deep strike, I found that one unit of Bladegheists at the time can work (the 5+ shrug from the battalion basically grants you one more turn with those small units alive if paired with a ST); the one led by Reikenor is there to run across the board and keep that squishy caster of ours safe enough. I'm not entirely convinced it's worth paying for two Shroudguard battallions, but you do get 2 CPs and two artefacts on top of the (awesome) 5+. If only the latter would apply to the KoS or Reiky as well...

Good stuff - I like it. My only concern is the DH as your general - I get the reason(S) why, but the risk of losing him real soon (shooting, MWs...) is real... and when that happens, the awesomeness of Endless Legions goes down the drain... I have run the Brooch quite a few times, but it's so unreliable... as you already have the Vassal of the Craven King as your trait for that 5+ CP back, I would either bring in a less squishy general (would Lady Olynder be an option? Cutting on those Bladegheist Reventants, maybe? It's impossible to get 20 in anyway...) or give the DH the Gryph-feather Charm (that, plus cover anytime available [and there's always some piece of terrain around for a tiny DH] should make it a bit more durable). Just a very personal set of thoughts, though!

I positively love SHs. They are not there to deal some proper damage... until they do! I usually run 6 SHs as a serious screen / very mobile tarpit unit in conjunction with a Dreadblade Harrow. As a general, with Gryph-feather Charm (he has a tendency to get shot off the board quickly...) and Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, it is very hard for almost everything to chew past that screen. Sure, your horde-style filth of choice can still do it, but when your opponent think they can smash them in one turn with their big chunky hero... well, 3 wound apiece, 4+ ethereal, 6+ shrug, D3 models back each hero phase for free, and some MWs back... there are worst things in (un-)life. Add to that the usual Dreadblade trick (Spectral Summons) and suddenly you can tarpit a Maw-krusha for a couple of turn while you get stuff done elsewhere on the board. Were if not for the sheer pain of building the models, I would probably run even more... SHs are not there to deal with tarpit... they are the tarpit, and an excellent one at that as well (which is fair, given the 120pts / three cost). Want to kill some stuff? As you said, Reapers are one solid answer to that (vampire lord and mounted KoS, 2 CPs later that's 80 attacks from a unit of 20 in two ranks...), SHs plays another role (at least for me!) P.S. Nine SHs mauled a Maw-krusha to death in the space of two battlerounds... when the 6's spike, there's no escape!

Not until they bother to include the <HERO> keyword for it... as a start. The one reason I would take it is to have a piece that is a tad bit more durable that everything else NH, but the damage output is minimal and the no-HERO issue is really something to consider! For just 20 pts more, I would consider a Mournghul instead! I personally don’t run that guy because I can’t stand the miniature, but on the table it can do wonders...

It really depends on which list they're running... and which sort of list you're running against them! Here're a few pointers: Don't even try to get rid of Eidolons and/or Leviadons - you need some serious damage in one go to even make a dent, and NH just don't have that. Not even 10 Bladegheist Revenants, fully buffed, on a Wave of Terror will probably manage in one go - one turn after, they're dust. Throw as little chaff/screens at these big guys as possible, but keep doing it so as to keep them busy and avoid them crashing into your expensive elite ranks. Eels - the the killy variant: the trick is to charge them first. Cogs (with the help of Reikenor, maybe) + From the Underworld they Come might work: the above mentioned unit of 10 Bladegheists would be my pick. Remember: they bravery is not great! If your greedy opponent has been fielding eels in units of 6... it's Grimghast Reapers time! Your unit of 30 (because every NH player should always have a unit of 30 Reapers!) will do nicely, but you have to screen it and get the charge. Eeels can fly, so you need to exploit the "can't finish your movement within 3" of any enemy unit" rule to avoid having 6 of them smashin into you. If they get just one... well, we can fly while piling in, can't we? 20Grims + Vampire Lord (+1 attack each) + Guardian of Souls on a unit of six = 6 eels gone, this has been tested several times (60 attacks re-rolling failed hits and wounding on 2s at -1 rend...) Eels - the tanky variant: this is the real problem. Even exploiting some solid attriction (see the above mentioned unit of 30 Reapers) these are real tough for NH to deal with. If you have Olynder, now it's the time. Gravesand of Time + Lifting the Veil + Lifestealer + The Banshees screaming should remove a couple of them - and again, their bravery is not phenomenal. In terms of list building, assuming you know nothing about the scenario you'd be playing (if it's places of arcane power, just shake their hand and go for a pint - little we can do to displace their heroes...) I'd go for 30 reapers, some three units of Rasps as screens, Reikenor (cogs on 4+) and Olynder (some very much needed MWs), and two units of Revenants plus the obvious buffing pieces . Legion of Grief lends itself quite nicely to being played against Deepkin: you just keep flushing the killy/tanky stuff with huge units of chaff while working with surgical precision to secure objectives via your elites. You need to be - very - familiar with the Deepking allegiance abilities, including those list builds that revert/modify the tides. I have seen players wasting tons of effort in getting charges in during the tide time where the Deepking fight first across the board... I like playing against Deepkin. They're tough, but not filthy: even the very heavy eels lists can be dealt with, as those sneaky things are quite costly after all. Hope some of this makes sense!

All of the above?! Too much (very personal opinion, though!). Unfinished Business (man, I like this a lot!) with a 5+ deathless save and Dreadful Determination alone will be a little revolution, solving one of the biggest NH issues - we pay an awful lot of points for our models as they are supposed to stay around for a long time (because of our ethereal saves) but they just don't, there's a crazy amount of damage out there! Now, 5+ instead of 6+ on top of an etheral save AND attacking first on charges... yes, yes *rubs hands* now we are talking.

To be perfectly honest with you, if I would have access to a regular-enough narrative setting (I'm simply missing the time and the people) I would probably let the tournaments go... or not - after all, I have only met incredibly nice people along the way up to now, and some crazy lists (steam tanks only, anyone?) you can only get at tournaments, I guess. I'd love that! The Nagash + Mortarch combo comes at a failry steep price (1190/1230 pts - and, for what matters, 113 GBP...) but other than that I really do hope something along these lines would actually happen... I'd be all in for both factions, Nef and Manny alike! Who knows, maybe plastic kits for blood knights / vampire lords and new models for direwolves as a start? On a related note, it must be real hard for GW to balance what they think is going to be most fashionable for death players in the near future with the knotty mass of models/factions/lore that they themselves have generated throughout the years... I guess that in order to transitioning smoothly from what we have to the next big thing they'll have quite a few hard boundaries to deal with. Or not , we shall see...

This is very true. I personally feel like having the option of including NH units into LoN is great: sure, the going got even tougher for NH when our beautiful Reapers became even more expensive than they originally were, but surely this is something that can be - dare I say it - balanced by acting on e.g. the allegiance abilities? For instance, access to the gravesites for NH would dramatically change the playstyle of many (well, myself for one...), in that suddenly you don't have too worry too much about positioning/screening/uber-carefully moving those glass cannons (Bladegheist Revenants, anyone?) but you can actually throw them into the throng with the beautifully reassuring knowledge they'll be back 1 CP later (assuming your squishy NH general would still be alive, but that's another story.) I will have to disagree with this one. Wave of terror is not a thing, for three reasons: (1) Something that happens with a 16.67% chance is not something any competitive build can/should rely upon: that's very close to the chance of rolling a 6 on a die (%16), and any one of us know that's not something to bank on. I remember a Beastclaw Riders player soberly confessing to me once "yeah, most of my good stuff happens on a 6..." (2) Even when we actually get wave of terror (hurray!) it's difficult to wipe out either tanky units or heroes: my best pick at the moment is 10 Bladegheist Revenants with a Spirit Torment (re-rolling failed hits) and a Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (+1 attacks for 1 CP, which you can't use during wave of terror!), which means 40 attacks 3+(rerolling)/3+/-1/1. Impressive (-ish) but look at the amount of both luck and support I had to invest here! For way less points many factions have access to more damage without the need of wave of terror in the first place. (3) You got your wave of terror, and managed to wipe out those pesky plague monks (hey, anyone has their grudges, ok?) - excellent. However, next turn your precious unit will die because of the other unit of plague monks not too far away. Wave of terror is very often an eye for an eye situation, but you can't do much in AoS with that! Something as easy as having wave of terror on a 8 instead of 10 would give us a ~ 40 % chance - that, would be a bit more scary, but I am not sure would fix much. Soul cage is so tricky: 12" is too perilous a range, given how squishy our heroes are you have to be in combat already with said heroes at the back to be close enough to cast it... and at that point, your Slaneeshi friend (?) has already wiped out whatever unit they were facing. I wouldn't necessarily rule out everything else, some strong LoN builds are still possible (he said confidently). I don't know, maybe I like my undead stuff so much I can't really see is not competitive anymore, but I'm not sure. It's not easy to put together a list that can cope with the latest filth, but I like the challenge!

I have experimented with these lasses for a while... from 4 up to 12, with very little success in most cases. As you suggest, they only make sense in units of 12, where they get that amazing +3 to unbind - that is, if some shooty opponent doesn't wipe them out first turn. In fact, just one wound in and suddenly we are talking 2+ already... Anyway, the obvious problem is the unbinding range: 18'', which means that what you really take them for is a very expensive screen - to try and avoid the truckload of MWs that the Lord of Change at the other side of the table is about to dump on you. That sort of works - for 210 points, though. "Ah, but they can dish some proper, high-rend damage, though!" - some would say. Well... maybe - I never truly managed. A unit of 12 with a - 2 rend is not really easy to manouver against that enemy hero/monster with a 3+ save that you desperately need to bracket/slain. D3 damage? Yes, real nice - only one attack each, though. Using their +1 attack following a successful unbind is rare (clever players know these girls...), and if you think about it, 5 blood knights guarantee an awful lot of damage for 10 points less, even taken outside LoB. Yes, you take the crimson jousters for a very different reason, but still. I still field them the banshees in NH/LoG because they are fun: if&when they connect with the dispel+charge combo (with an additional +1 attack from a mounted KoS) we are laughing, but in a competitive list (I find) they tend to die before getting the chance of doing anything useful. For 210 points - 1CP later they might be back in LoG, but in NH you spend most of the time trying to keeping them safe, waiting for that arcane bolt to dispel with ease... Which is a shame, because I really do like the models (well, 3 out of 4 of them at least, one seems to have been ethereally impaled onto something). If only they had two wounds each *sighs*

I absolutely love the model - it's such a joy to paint as well... on the tabletop, though: - 1000 pts: don't even think about it - seriously, go for Lady Olynder instead (what you get for a few points more... amazing stuff). - 2000 pts: I've tried him in multiple occasions, with very mixed results. The main problem with this lad is that he's utterly unreliable. Sure, he can deal an impressive amount of damage (chiefly against the enemey general...), which is an ability something that NHs sorely miss. However, you can't really count on him to deliver consistently. But then, what are you left with? Seven rather squishy wounds, no buffs to anybody around him, and very erratic "I've stolen your CP on a 5+". Not great... I have recently tried to swap Kurdoss with 5 blood knights (same pts!). Alright, they are not as good as they are in LoB (they're still not summonable and tricky to heal there too, though...), but the punch they can deliver on the charge is something way more reliable than Kurdoss. You can deepstrike the latter turn 1 against the enemy general, but any decent opponent would make it impossible - and there you have it, that lazy Craven King ambling on a 6" move. Conevrsely, blood knights move 10", typically 12" in NHs (if you're not running the cogs, you're not really playing NHs). In a nutshell: amazing model, real fun to play with (when he spikes, man, he really spikes...), but not reliable enough, in my very personal opinion, to be included in what people would probably call a competitive list (assuming such a thing makes sense as we speak with our beautiful flimsy ghosts). P.S. All of this coming from a relatively new player currently losing an awful lot of tournament games with NHs, so take it with a grain of salt!

Hi all! 'been lurkin for quite a while, thought it was high time to say hello properly. I'm a relatively new (despite the rather grizzled beard) AoS player, especially keen about anything (un)dead - such as the bunch of newly painted ghosts below. I quite like the very relaxed/constructive TGA's setting - keep up the great work, folks!