[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

Wards saves make sense to me too, the heralds have it since forever (and all daemons have it in 40k, so is not that rare). Daemons of Slaanesh are mostly naked seductive warriors, the KoS is obviously using his body to look graceful in battle. Even in the 300 movie spartans were depicted as mostly naked perfect warriors. something like having a 5+ ward save but a - (none) armor save would be quite cool and thematic, and different enough from Nurgle as a mechanic, making nurgle still the king of resilience. Twinsouls already explore this concept too, but only when the daemon side is in command with the supernatural reflexes.

I don't see something like this happening because I don't believe in the rule writers being so brave and smart, but something like the Mawtribes rule about being eating or hungry could work. While not in close combat our troops are "moving at daemonic speed", while moving at daemonic speed they have a 5+ ward save. When in close combat they are "figthing with unholy precision", while figthing with unholy precision they have -1 additional rend.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

Im positive about a new book coming soon. As mentioned, we don't even have Dexcessa/Synessa in our book. DoK is coming soon wich means the rule of having a recent book dosnt apply. It would be a perfect chance to release a plastic herald as the single new model. Im worried about such a book being written too early tho, beacuse I hope they got the time ro receive all the feeedback of the players, I want to see summoning greatly nerfed so we can have the core units greatly buffed. By reading the recent books (IDK and FS) our book seem clearly underdesigned and our warscrolls seem utterly undertuned. Making Slaanesh a "Prime Hunter" or wathever they called it is the prove of GW acknowledging the state of the army. Im hoping for a book coming soon (maybe even the next Chaos Battletome already anounced) and changing every single Daemon warscroll. Remember that our Battletome was more of an add-on with all the Daemon stuff copy pasted from the previous one. 

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I don't know if you saw it, but my math was on the previous page and it found the same thing you did - however, while you do fewer mortal wounds with MWs on 6 to wound and exploding hits on 6s, you do more damage overall as you end up with more hits. My conclusion was that you end up being in a better position with our current rules on Slickblades and Painbringers as you do more overall damage (by like .5), and pretty much the same with a KoS overall. And in my next post, I said that blissbarb seekers are in a worse position with our current rules compared to MWs on hits 

I see. I believe if you give +1 to hit to Painbringers and Slickblades they deal exactly the same number of MWs on average than MWs to hit because you average the same number of hits than dices you roll to hit (with the potential of doing less or more sometimes). That is because mathematically exploding 6s equall to +1 to hit, so they get the same average as an autohit unit (a 1+ to hit unit). If you roll exactly the same number of dices to hit and to wound, then you perform the same number of MWs in both rolls.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

There will be no difference in mortal wounds averages, but there would be a difference in average damage It still works out in a similar way, with exploading 6s and 6s to wound doing mortal wounds doing more damage than mortal wounds on hits by a small amount. 

However, I think we have a split of models that do mortal wounds in addition to damage and just ending the sequence. 

The KoS/Shalaxi do mortal wounds on 6s to wound and end the sequence, and Glutos does 2 mortal wounds on a hit, but ends the sequence on the sword. Blissbarb seekers do 1 mortal wound on a wound roll with the attack sequence ending but don't benefit from Euphoric Killers so would always be better having mortal wounds on 6s to hit. 

Painbringers and Slickblade Seekers do mortal wounds to wound in addition to normal damage. 

So 6s being mortal wounds is really only better for Blissbarb Seekers, and pretty equivalent (but a bit worse) on everyone else  

I don't know how you did your math, but 18 attacks 3+/3+ with MWs to hit do 3 MWs, while 18 attacks 3+/3+ with double hit on 6s and MWs on wound rolls of 6 deal 2'48 MWs. This is simply because you roll less dice to wound than to hit. The moment you go to 4+ (Blissbarb Seekers) the formula go even worse because you are loosing more dices in the hit roll, doing 1'5 MWs instead of 3.

And im all in with Slaanesh having exploding 6s, we don't need more MW spam (we can play chariots if they are correctly pointed). Will not mind MWs to wound becoming an allegiance ability tho (lovely for Daemonettes)

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

I think the problem is the Snowball effect of our army. You start with 1500 pts in the table and you rely on summoning 1000 pts to get the upper hand later. Most competitive armies are made to destroy and melt high value of points in a single turn. The game is explosive and rely on a thin balance to work. If you both start with 2000 pts and 2000 pts can destroy 500 pts in a turn, then you both need to play that turn correctly so next turn is 1500 pts vs 1500 pts, thats because points is your tankiness but also your damage output and your score (mostly bodies) capability.

The moment you start with 1500 pts and the enemy with 2000 pts there is a high chance he erase 500 of your points and leave you with 1000 pts to retaliate. It is not imposible to generate 1000+ points and take the upper hand, but is extremely uphill. If you are erasing enemy threats then you are not generating enough DP. This force you to play anvils and scatershots to generate the DP at the cost of not erasing enemy threats.

It works the other way too. If someone got a really good game and summon 30 Daemonettes/1 KoS a turn, then he snowballs too hard and end in a really good position. But the chance of doing so are few, and as tested, even BoC can win tournaments in the hands of the best players in the world.

Most people would like to see the cost of summoning going up and the cost of basic troops going down to make it more akin to the other 3 chaos gods. None of them are paying extra tax for summoning. They play 2000 pts armies and summon like 500 pts and thats it.

We got MW spam (specially in exalted chariots) and ranged attacks (both kinds of Blissbarbs are good) anvils (Painbringers, Glutos) and hammers (Twinsouls, Sigvald, KoS, Fiends) and even screens (Daemonettes, Hellstriders). The problem is this roles are measured by points per value, so we got the worst anvils and hammers in the game compared to any other army.

Slaanesh design is not perfect, but the only "musts" that i see to fix it is cost of summoning going up, cost of troops going down, rewrite of Slaangor warscroll (they currently do nothing). The rest is just wishlisting for the following battletome.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

12 hours ago, Sorrow said:

@Enoby

Our time in the sun has passed. Other factions need attention. Quite a lot of them.

I think that our rules and cost will remain as they are for years.

 

Well, cost change every year in the GHB, who knows.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

On 8/13/2021 at 11:42 AM, Enoby said:

Also, @Sorrow @AngryPanda @Carnith @CeleFAZE @LeonBox @Elazar The Glorified@azdimy @Nagashfan @Jaskier @MothmanDraws @TimeToWaste85 

(I know I've forgotten people - sorry! - I'm very bad with names, but I do remember your profile pics!)

As you're all quite active on this thread/have an interest in the survey, I thought I'd run these questions past you. These would all be in addition to the old questions, but I'm wondering about edits and additions

 

 

• A "how do you feel" question about each daemon (for points)

 

• Do you feel that AoS 3 Slaanesh is in a better or worse place than AoS 2 Slaanesh in terms of power

  • Much better

  • A bit better

  • About the same

  • A bit worse

  • Much worse

  •  

• What would you like to see most in a supplement book or tome celestial (tick all that apply)

  • An alternative use of depravity (so not for summoning)

  • More support within the allegiance abilities for mortal only armies

  • A rewrite to the Slaangor Warscroll

  • More hosts/host options to theme an army around

  • More ways to get depravity points 

  • Synessa getting an extra spell to cast

  • More synergies available

  • More ways to use Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos in a Hedonites army

  • Revised spell lores

  • More core battalions available to Slaanesh

  • More grand strategies available to Slaanesh

  • More battle tactics available to Slaanesh

•  Do you like summoning being a large part of Slaanesh's playstyle (note, this does not mean 'a part at all', but rather referring to it being the arguably strongest part of the allegiance ability)

  • I strongly dislike summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability 

  • I somewhat dislike summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

  • I have no strong opinion

  • I somewhat like summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

  • I strongly like summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

• Out of the following warscrolls, please tick all you feel you would like to have a warscroll tweek or rewrite 

  • None of them

  • (List of all units, started with most requested first)

• Compared to other factions, how do you view the quality of the Slaanesh rules (note, this does not mean strength, but rather choices available, how fun the army is to play, how fun the army is to build lists for, how interesting the warscrolls are etc.)

  • Much below the average battletome

  • A little bit below the average battletome

  • About the same as the average battletome

  • A little bit above the average battletome

  • Much above the average battletome

I think as a good addition a question like "What do you think should be the core feature of an Hedonites of Slaanesh army? As in wich rule must be pushed to be core to the HoS army identity?"

Because even if currently is summoning and that is already a question, i read some really good ideas over here in the past (like someone thinking combat drugs should be the focus). Me personally, i think high rend was a core identity of HoS 1.0 before Battletome (our battleline having -1 rend was the envy of battlelines) and would like to see it pushed to a theme again. Slaanesh is not specially punchy and that can change if we become queen of rend (but not raw damage). The spam of mortals wound would also make high rend somewhat unique. Imagine Daemonettes with -2 rend (maybe only in the charge or something but you get what i think). Slaangors and Fiends with -2 rend base. KoS with -3 rend... Of course a lot of people think speed is enough to be the core. I like the idea of some form of invulnerable save too, an expansion of the current rule in Viceleader/Masque. Simply having a ward save is too much like Nurgle, but maybe something like "Before rolling an armor save you can choose to use your Ligthning Reflexes, if you do the armor save cannot be modified (not even by rend) and becomes 5+"

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

Another plus on Dexcessa over the Bladebringer (even when Bladebringer is awesome) is that she count as 5 models, while Bladebringer only count as 2 models. You can easily take a point that is camped by another non-monster hero or an elite unit of 5 guys (you only need to kill one) while capturing it with a Bladebringer is harder (need to kill the hero or kill 4 guys in the elite unit)

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

So they made Painbringers strictly worst than Twinsouls at tanking too... uh. The design of Slaanesh is all over the place in 3.0.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

I think Synessa got some added value now with all the point increases, as she is relatively cheap. Someone said that he is not sure about her because he prefer to have more bodies, but she is a monster that count as 5 bodies even when damaged, she can be as low as 1 wounds and still count as 5. That mean she can easily steal a point camped by a 5 bodies elite unit from a safe spot killing one with the ranged attack.

Also, she is probably the better support for Twinsouls. Our army dosn't have buffs to rend, but the monstrous rampage roar is effectively the same as -1 rend because it prevent the use of All Out Defense and stacks with the use of All Out Attack on the Twinsouls allowing a better combo.

She can self-heal with heroic actions and spells, and unleash hell more effectively than a unit of 11 Blissbarb (unafected by -1 to hit)

If you perform her full combo she is not a bad damage dealer either. We got better choices for damage, but she can win some duels on her own if needed later in the game (1d3 from spell + 1d3 from stomp +1d3/6 from shoot + 2.78 from claws agaisnt 4+ save)

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

I wrote this in the points thread, but I think it got a place here too:

At this moment is clear that Slaanesh points are a placeholder waiting for the moment GW choose to really test and give the army real point costs. There were suspicions (and even confirmation from some playtesters) that this was the case even in the battletome (at least mentioned about Slaangors and Hellstriders).

Is gonna be a rough year for anyone wanting to play with his Slaaneshi toys. But im ready to pay the extra points, play my understrength army and be removed from the table on one or two turns. Im ready to move some big monsters around the table and roll some dices. Now we don't play to win, we play to party as hard as possible and go out in a big wave of depravity.

[AoS3 - The points discussion]

At this moment is clear that Slaanesh points are a placeholder waiting for the moment GW choose to really test and give the army real point costs. There were suspicions (and even confirmation from some playtesters) that this was the case even in the battletome (at least mentioned about Slaangors and Hellstriders).

Is gonna be a rough year for anyone wanting to play with his Slaaneshi toys. But im ready to pay the extra points, play my understrength army and be removed from the table on one or two turns. Im ready to move some big monsters around the table and roll some dices. Now we don't play to win, we play to party as hard as possible and go out in a big wave of depravity.

[The Rumour Thread]

In Slaanesh there were cases of 50% increase overprize in points. So don't hold to a 10-15-20% as a maximum. (Hellstrides going from 100 to 150)

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Thanks for this! Definitely getting path to glory vibes from this. 

Someone said this image is part of an old GHB that offered an alternative way of listbuilding for open play. I read that section some time ago, but cannot remember if this exact table was there (probably yes). I remember the other part about rolling the units at random using the criteria of this list to describe them. It was the Open War Army Generator or something like that. So may be an old pic sneaking as a fake leak.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

6 hours ago, Enoby said:

We did use reserves, though I don't think it changed listbuilding for us Cohesion did make Ardboyz a lot worse. I also think it made Locus of Diversion stronger, simply as a unit had to be in a poor position to begin with, so not being able to correct the position helped a lot.

It did once for me - when I made the mistake of putting 10 Twinsouls into the Krusha, 5 Brutes killed four Slickblades and the Krusha killed 6 Twinsouls. I elected to save the Twinsouls to keep the Krusha put so the Slickblades died.

Yeah, I think the actual conclusion of the game isn't too important in this case, both because of the points increases and also because the Orruk Warclans book is probably getting a rull rewrite with Kruelboyz so will probably end up a totally different army. That said, if I dealt with the Mawkrusha earlier, I reckon I'd have won - problem is I'm not actually sure if we have the realistic capacity to kill a Mawkrusha on a 2+ save in one go (I don't know how many armies have this ability to be honest). Probably would require a lot of shooting and a KoS.  

I think you need a monster (Dex/Syn/Shalaxi/KoS) simply to roar into him, then he cannot +1 save. Even if you hit with twinsouls or wathever other unit first that change a lot. If you do so he will probably use finest hour the next turn (other way of having +1 save), but at least that turn you catch him offguard.

Exalted Chariots are not a bad bet either. 1d3/1d6 MW from charge + 1d3 MW from blades + 1d3 MW from spell.

Synessa can 1d3 MW from spell + 1d3/1d6 MW from shoot and then roar to set other units into atacking him, is a risky spot for her but everything is in danger near a Maw-Krusha.

Monsters also have the bonus option of +1 to hit with Titanic Duel just in case you figth him with two (Lets say, Synessa doing what I said before and a KoS being the one that attack with Titanic Duel) If Synessa survives to punch, the -2 rend put him into 5+ save wich is a decent chance to hit 2 or 4  more wounds (the -1 to be hit can help her survive)

I just noticed you can use Finest Hour with the summoned KoS, is somewhat close to having unlimited Finest Hours with the Keepers (unlike other heroes like the Maw-Krusha that can use it only once).

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

New Arcane Bolt is like a little buff to KoS. She is a double caster and you usually dosn't have a good second spell for her. Now you can load it and basically have 1d3 MW more impact damage at the charge. Synessa can do it too but she will usually cast something more useful with her single spell. If you add the monstrous rampage that is 2d3 MWs on the charge (or when the enemy charge you) before fighting.

[The Rumour Thread]

9 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Well that was a meh article as usual. Nerfed arcane bolt?

I like this Arcane Bolt, dosn't seem nerf to me. Less range but you can pop it after movement so same range. Now the updated damage dont depend on your casting roll (or bonus) but is about you charging then poping it in the combat phase.

Is easier to cast without bonuses and you can hold it your whole turn and use it defensively in the enemy turn when something charge you, if nothing do you can pop it in the combat phase anyway and chip something at 12inch. Is quite cool and way more tactical, open a lot of possibilities

[The Rumour Thread]

41 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

I stand by this army is the one standing to be left behind the most with the new edition if nothing major changes. Their endless spell mechanic with soulbound spells is basically the new mechanic for endless spells, however they got -1 to all casts with an endless spell on the board, that rule will be absolutely silly if they still get -1, so it should see major changes or be removed all together.

Their other unique mechanic is not worse in itself, but it is worse in relation to what everyone else are getting. With more command points and strong command abilities, by staying the same as before, OBR will be weaker overall in comparison. Imagine their catapults now when everyone gets easy access to +1 save in the shooting phase...

Also their abilities are still technically commands, so would also need to be FAQd if they can use the same more times, imagine if that is not addressed and only 1 mortek guard unit can use shield wall? Or 1 unit can use the +3" move? 

The new edition has raised a lot of questions and a lot of new stuff, most which concerns rules of stuff OBR does not have or in relation makes what they got much worse. The army needs some good FAQs to be playable, but of course GW is on top of that, they would never mess up something like that surely

I get it. There gonna be outdated rules in some armies for a while until battletomes fix them. Meanwhile try to roar into the objective of your catapult with your harvester to avoid the +1 save.

[The Rumour Thread]

14 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

If nothing changes they will be an absolute dumpsterfire. They endless spell mechanic everyone got now, but without a -1 to cast. Everyone got way more command points and better commands, if OBR does not get anything to compensate for not having access to any commands, what is the point of the army?

New battleshock inmunity is gonna be even more powerful than before due to restrictions on Inspiring Presence. Is not like they loose everything. In fact they loose nothing.

In my group we play in a budget since forever and we aim to have 1000pts armies since the begining (after many years of collecting). Most of our games were 750pts 3 players free for all. This new rules for 750pts gonna do wonders.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

22 minutes ago, Rawenwing said:

Absolutely perfect breakdown, we are indeed shaping up to be in a really strong spot in the 3.0 meta. I don’t know if this needs clarification or not but, should we generate extra cp as per invaders rule about generals? In that case you could keep your warlord trait general alive and lose one of the other two and still generate a cp on a 2+ 

I doubt it. The most probable outcome Rules As Intended is that we still get the General Alive CP as long as one of our Generals is alive, and that we can opt to the 2+ roll as long as non of our Generals is alive.

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, AngryPanda said:

 

I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, but for the ability icon ‘Magnificent’ it says you can pick an enchantment; anyone have any ideas what this could be? Unit upgrades? Additional special abilities? 

One of the WarCom articles mention extra prayers for priest as one of the enhancements. We can assume is the new version of "+1 Artifact"

[The Rumour Thread]

14 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I like them for their awesome galleries, but the strategies listed are typically along the lines of Cavalry are fast and with this new command ability they are even faster. Add endless spells to make your wizard more deadly. Grots may not seem strong but become a lot more powerful when fighting in large hordes. Fun stuff that is great for beginners trying to decide an army and get a hang of the rules... just hard to swallow for those of us jonesing for some new edition info. 

Speaking of which here is the new article full of great art and army shots and generic strategies:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/the-new-edition-is-a-buffet-of-delights-for-the-hedonites-of-slaanesh/

I expected them to at least talk about a new Grand Strategie related to movement or confirm alpha strike ranges for the new board sizes. My bad XD. We already pointed Painbringers and Twinsould being powerful with all out attack and defense long ago in the HoS thread.

[AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion]

7 hours ago, Nagashfan said:

So I just watched a battle report by MWG stormcast vs krag ogres…. SC was able to kill krag pretty easy with a big unit of evocators and mortal wounds do we have anything that can deal with him like that?

Evocators is still the most reliable way to deal massive MWs in the game. But said so, that was 600+ pts of Evocators. You can use 3 non-hero Exalted Chariots for less points and as long as you make the charge you easily kill Kragnos on averages. Synessa may also help if Kragnos charge a screen in front of her you can do the generic command to double shoot him and is a MW mechanic that dosnt have penalties. Just be very careful to not be charged being a monster or he will simply delete you. The Chariots are more reliable because they deal a lot of MWs even if Kragnos charge (but probably not enough to kill him unless you are the one charging).

That is our only MWs spam unit as far as I know. Our spells aren't bad either (Pavane and Hysterical Frenzy) but Kragnos is inmune to spells.

I don't recomend Infernal Enrapturess just for that, but if you happen to have her to counter magic, her attack with -3 rend is not bad to do 1d3 damage to Kragnos. Your ideal summon would be an Exalted Chariot that inmediately charge him, but a Infernal Enrapturess can shoot the turn she es summoned too.

[The Rumour Thread]

1 minute ago, Ogregut said:

My guess is the core, bare bones will be free. As in how to move, shoot, charge, fight in combat and his to resolve battleshock. 

More advance stuff like the monster rampage, heroic actions, endless spells etc won't be included with the free rules. 

Do enough to get you paying but if you want the full experience you'll need to buy the rules. 

I think everythink basic is gonna be free. It seems like a lot now but really is gonna be small once packed. Monstrous Rampages are that 4 abilities chart and will go in the charge phase section. Hero Actions the same in the hero phase section. The free rules usually cover everything but matched play stuff, so only thing I see being out is the core battalions.

[The Rumour Thread]

1 minute ago, Ogregut said:

Did anyone pick up that it seems a unit can't have more than one CA used on it per phase. 

It mentioned how the chaos knights can have the chaos Lords CA used in the hero phase allowing them to have all out defense used in the combat phase. 

That is cool actually. It is questionable how can you possibly command your troops to "all out defense" and "all out attack" at the same time without breaking the physical rules of space and time.