Aelven supremacy

Our strongest build is Fuethan Tidecaster where battleline status of eels is irrelevant. Dhom Hain King builds are already a step down in effectiveness. Nerfing them even further by removing Morrsarr from battleline will just make Fuethan Tidecaster even more entrenched and remove build options, not increase them

With the GHB19 in mind and the anticipated Morrsarr nerf what lists are people prepping? I think the overall impact (assuming nerf to unviability of Morrsarr) would necessitate a shift from fuethan/ tidecaster/ Morrsarr to Volturnos attack spam (to get enough attacks through from non-rend models like Ishlaen and low attack rend models like Allopexes). With that in mind I’m thinking of trialling something like the following: Dhom Hain Volturnos (general) Soulscryer (Liandra’s last lament) Soulscryer 9 x Ishlaen 9 x Ishlaen 10 x Thralls 3 x Allopex Current points = 1880. Assuming Ishlaen go up to 160 for 3 this still sits at 2000 points assuming no other adjustment. If Thralls and Allopexes go down then hopefully they drop enough to allow an extra command point. Purpose of list is to survive until the turn 3 Volturnos smackdown whilst minimising command point spend. To this point Liandras Last Lament is crucial, enabling battleshock surviveability for multiple units without requiring a command point (save all of them for turn 3). Sharks with their shooting enable cagier turn 1 play and then, as per usual, you aim to go second in battle round 2 in the hopes of a priority roll battle round 2 into 3 to position. With the abundance of decent unbinds I never find a tidecaster able to get any spells off so removed from list in favour of a second Soulscryer to ensure the right charges come off. Dhom Hain crucially offers the reroll wound rolls for the Akhelians against monsters, one of the few sources of wound rerolls available outside the Eidolon Storm. The reroll 1s to hit is near duplicated with Volturnos so is less of a benefit. Together they should enable a huge volume of Ishalaen turn 3 attacks with incredible consistency with hopefully enough weight of dice to punch through heavy armour/ after saves. What are people’s thoughts?

I think most are expecting a points increase for Morrsarr (up to 180-200) and then hoping for points decreases elsewhere (especially for the Eidolons (who really should be 100 points cheaper but more likely to get a much smaller drop) hopefully for sharks, turtles, reavers) Soulscryer may be up for a points increase too though hopefully a Morrsarr points increase is considered enough

By the way I don’t think you can get 2+ save on the charge with idoneth eels. Charging loses the benefit of cover so the max you get is 3+

First major question is how do you like to play/ what do you want to get out of the list? However I will try to give some general points from my own experience: 30 thralls are harder to manage in game than you’d think. 1” range and 32mm bases make most of them irrelevant in any given fight. I’d go 1 x 20, 1 x 10 if you wanted to keep the same total. Personally I prefer the Storm to the Sea. The Storm is an incredibly mobile reliable hitter whilst the Sea lacks the damage output and struggles to even deliver on the magic side against any of the many magic heavy armies. If you want to avoid Morrsarr then try a combo of Sharks (best looking model of the range IMO) and Ishlaen. They can both tank harder and the sharks give you the rend you would otherwise miss. Also consider Reavers instead of Thralls. Stats wise Thralls seem an easy choice but I typically find I get one combat out of them and then they pretty much die and I’d just better hope that combat was during high tide. Reavers are more mobile and add pressure outside of combat.

Sometimes it’s funny to just soulscryer-strike a turtle right on top of the enemy. Everyone plans for an eel strike but then they have to instead deal with a 16 wound 3+ tank that in no way forms a core part of your army

This is the route I believe they will/should go down. Having the existing Aelven kits just be Teclis’, Tyrion’s and Malerion’s “new” armies would demonstrate such a paucity of imagination. Make the existing kits useable by having them as Free Peoples/ Devoted of Sigmar etc with Dwarves and Humans. Build completely new Aelven beasts and supersoldiers for Hysh and Ulgu. They are being designed by gods!!! If Sigmar can make Stormcast then Teclis, Tyrion and Malerion can make something new, different and elite too. Teclis has already demonstrated this with Idoneth!

Agreed 100%

Outside of Slaves to Darkness though, if there were to be another Chaos tome I imagine it would be Tzeentch?

Point taken about human/stormcast. I guess I was more talking about Sigmar as a (human) god creating something completely new from and different to the old world. Teclis alone has already created sea aelves (when isn’t Tyrion the actual god?) We have all the Aelven models still and they can create rules for them within a free cities alliance easily enough. Creating a whole new epic range like Idoneth would be way more fulfilling as a route than using existing models, even as just a jumping point

The more I think about “repackage the existing Aelves as new Hysh/Ulgu Aelves” the less I like it. Sigmar/humans got Stormcast. Dwarves got huge Steampunk Zeppelins. A minor (lore and influence wise) Aelven faction was delivered with sea creatures. Why would the full realisation of Teclis and Tyrion’s vision for the rescued souls of Hyshian Aelves be “lol exactly the ones we had already”. It would be such a waste of such creative potential. Roll in Order Draconis, Swifthawk, Phoenix temple etc with Free Peoples and Dispossessed as their free cities thing. Flex GWs serious creative muscle for the new stuff.

There was an elven female vampire in The End Times series (forgotten her name... I wasn’t playing Warhammer during the end times). So no lore reason why the Soulblight infliction would not work on Aelves or dwarves!

I imagine it would be Deathrattle or Soulblight (either linked to whichever of Nagash’s allies has been locked up by Sigmar). I’d love to see Soulblight but with Aelven and Dwarven vampires too. Now all the races are living together it would be odd that Death is still only human.

I know but no one else is either and a man can dream...

Still hoping for Settra...

I’m thinking the Abyssal blade needs some action... plus 1 rend and plus 1 damage. Slaanesh now sounds like the army I would play if I didn’t play Idoneth

So I run two lists, one mixed Aelves with some Idoneth and one pure Idoneth. My Aelves list is: Dragonlord with thermal rider cloak, lance and shield and legendary attacker Frostheart Archmage on horse 3 x 10 Bleakswords 30 Phoenix guard 9 Morrsarr eels 5 Khinerai heartrenders Prismatic palisade Really the list functions as sending the eels and dragonlord up, holding the Phoenix back and using the bleakswords as screens and objective grabbers. The Khinerai add a bit more pressure on objectives and have won me a few games themselves. I started off with dragon blades rather than Morrsarr but found they did absolutely nothing. The -2 rend for Morrsarr is sorely sorely needed for Aelves plus the mortal wound output they provide. The tides from Idoneth obviously help them but even without the tides they fill a role that is otherwise unfilled for the Aelves

I got into Deepkin because I love the models and they are the only good non-daughters Aelves. I’ve always assumed the Morrsarr points increase will happen and have purposely avoided going Morrsarr heavy so I don’t become Morrsarr reliant. Yes the current competitive play style and build relies on Morrsarr but keep in mind several things: 1. How many of you have tried anything other than Morrsarr? Deepkin are expensive, honestly how many other builds have even been tried since the first Morrsarr based wins started happening? Anyone who gets into Deepkin is told to go Morrsarr heavy. Have you even ever tried non-Fuethan or Dom Hain enclaves? 2. Morrsarr speak to an alpha-strike playstyle. The other units are not built for pure alpha-strike. The gap in your army is a gap in an alpha strike army which clearly won’t be filled. Time to try a different style 3. Yes they are our main mortal wound dealers in current builds but the leviadon, tidecaster and aspect of the sea can also do that. I have never found Morrsarr’s mortal wound output to be overly strong anyway given it is once a game. It’s not exactly a reliable consistent MW output. It’s what... 13 wounds total for the entire game from 18 eels? 2.5 per battle round. And that’s assuming you are volting with a full unit. Bottom line is I’m sticking to Deepkin and will find another way to play them.

I’m trying to learn to play my reavers (in a namarti build) but they are difficult... it feels like they either need one of: 1. Slightly longer range on the 3 shots profile (esp to allow deepstrike and shoot), 2. 3s and 3s (they are elves after all!) 3. -1 rend. Currently they just don’t kill anything and so are only useful as screens or (slow) objective grabbers

A bit of a broad question but how many drops do most of you find your skaven opponents to have? I have never played them and my list currently sits at 6 drops. I have not heard of any skaven battalions, more just the vortex, verminlords etc. so I have no idea of actually builds being used.

Or mortal wound protection (Ignax) depending on match-up. The issue with the amulet is that the Eidolon loses the benefit of cover.

I suggest you just play test with them in different ratios of Ishlaen to Morrsarr. Most builds go Morrsarr heavy but see what you like. Just put the eels together but don’t stick on the spear or the sword until you’ve played a few games and decided which eel ratio works best for you

In general the Allopexes are not considered to be amazing (especially when compared to morrsarr guard). The competitive change to your build would be dropping them in favour of more Morrsarr plus a soulscryer. The Allopexes are cool models though...

It depends on what you want. I personally love all the models except for the eels which is a difficult situation as all the competitive builds are eel-heavy! If you are like me then just go for namartis, all the isharanns and then any of the heros you like or even the turtle. If you want competitive then key units to buy are eels, soulscryer(s) and then tidecaster and/or Akhelian king. If tidecaster then you will need some namarti thralls anyway so they could be a good start no matter what route you end up choosing!

I wouldn’t consider anything a “must have”. The great benefit of Mixed Order is that you can tailor the army to any tactic/ strategy you like playing. Whether you like control, alpha strike, magic heavy, castling etc. you can find a build to support it. For Mixed Order you would see less potential synergy than tome lists. This leads to a need to bring together units/ clusters of units that can operate fairly independently to each other (which can be considered a strength). In general I would focus unit selection on firstly picking what you want your army to do (and therefore what key units help you to do that). You can then cherry pick all the undercosted units across all the Order armies to maximise your 2000 points given lower levels of synergy. Maybe you have 9 morrsarr eels in a list with an annointed on a Phoenix, a large arkanaut company etc.