Evil Bob

I dunno Honk. Teclis is pretty arrogant. He almost genocide(d) his own children when they weren’t perfect enough.

Is it a little greedy to hope for, “All of the above,” pretty please GW fairy?

Null Myrad for the fun-win. Arkhan’s personal Legion in any book always holds a place dear to my cold unbeating heart. I’m short on Stalkers for a unit of six. Guessing they hit pretty well with your reliance on them. Four Harbingers is possible on my end. Having used them in The Grand Host of Nagash they are a familiar option. Although even with the extra die each they can still be swingy so that leaves me a bit concerned. Theory-Hammering it up there is a lot of movement shenanigans Stalliarch Lords with a Kavalos Lance can pull. The Stalliarch Lords Command Ability when used is very careful to state a retreating unit that runs cannot then charge. The Kavalos Lance retreat ability doesn’t have the same restriction under that Allegiance. It’s some kind of unholy PB&J combo. There’s something appealing about tagging a unit that is off position then next turn running away to a priority fight without having to add an extra turn. Here’s a few options that were thrown together yesterday if you have any insights Emissary. 2000 Generic OBR 3-Drop Notes: Near maximum army strength for potential Alpha-Strike. Mortek Guard do funny unit stretches if need to over two back objectives. Soulstealer Carrion to try and keep the suicidal charging Leige and add extra mortal wound damage. 2000 Stalliarch Lords 4-Drop Notes: Arkhan can support through magic or speed any group. Having him being able to leapfrog disengage and then attack a rear support hero or shooting unit is appealing. Nightmare Predator can be traded in if more mortal wounds if desired. Lion’s share of the healing/summoning will probably be the Kavalos Lance and self heals. 1970 Stalliarch Lords 4-Drop Notes: Foot units can more actively participate. Possibly work as an anvil. Boneshaper and Balewind Vortex are a great combo Overall having a bit of a love/hate relationship with Deathriders. Smaller units are a concern about not sticking around long enough. Larger units eat up valuable points with marginal gains compared to having Arkhan or a Mortek Guard unit with more meat on the bone.

How well does this Warscroll Battalion fare in your local meta? To be honest my motivation for OBR was to try out Arkham a few times then changed back to traditional LoN, FEC, Nighthaunt/LoG. If OBR is supposed to be an elite army then why should I be forced into packing it with Mortek Guard and catapults? Seeing a possible maneuverable army has my interest. Especially if I might be able to mix in some Deathriders. If by some miracle that battalion could work with the Kavalos Lance then my desire to run OBR would certainly be resurrected.

If your army is from the FEC book you always get Feeding Frenzy. ALWAYS. If you selected a Grand Court you only use the Command Trait from that court, do not pick another. Any Command Abilities already on the warscroll are not lost and can still be used. If you select a Grand Court the first relic of power has to be theirs. Each additional Warscroll Battalions allows another relic to be selected and given to different a hero.

Basically it requires a lot of page flipping. 1: Determine Attacker Results: (AoS 2.0 Rulebook page 232) - Hit Roll -> Wound Roll -> Save Roll -> Determine Damage (no negation yet) Normally at this point Wound Allocation BUT... 2: Bodyguard Roll: (OBR page 105, 95) - Soulbound Protector happens before Wound Allocation and Deathless Warrior. Roll a die for each wound or mortal wound. On a 1: Wound passes to original target On a 2 through 4: Wound passes to the Soulbound unit On a 5 or 6: Wound is negated and never allocated at all. Which is really weird with current AoS game mechanics 3: Shrug Save: (OBR page 73, 95, 107) - Deathless Warrior 6+ or Morghast Ebon-wrought Armor 5+ as applicable happens here since the wound(s) is(/are) finally allocated. Historical Notes: After the chaos AoS 1.5 hit Death with (reinforcement points now came from army total) and the bandaid that was Legions of Nagash the bodyguard mechanic was kind thrown out there. It was enough that LoN FAQs were amended to stop “excessive” defensive dice rolling. It was then retroactively allowed to happen again with Skaven Verminlord Warpseer which was a large monster hero with the right relic got TWO 4+ Saves on each hit and TWO 5+ Shrugs against each wound (my answer to that was send in 20x Chainwrasps and let both units sit the rest of the battle there while saving 100 points in comparative investment). Between that and other death instances of getting TWO 6+ Shrugs on all wounds we have The General’s Handbook 2020 shutting all of that down.

I never stated a personal position on this nerf. Again my points were GW is uneven with their rules balancing. Lazy game development one would expect from a monopoly. They can react to pressures. Deal with one problem while ignoring the broader systemic ones. This “fun” talk falls under politics. The loudest people got their way. A book filled with mediocre faction options that can chill until the next release. I’ll cross my fingers for Null Myriad to get a decent magical resistance and not this 5+ nonsense.

I just wish GW was more even handed with their nerfing. Serephon kept an option for easy free unit teleport. Lumineth have a crazy -1 To Hit ability and cheap mortal wound spamming archers. My thought on this is GW sometimes nerfs things to appease the loudest people. Game balance is something they tend to save for poorly written rules or fixes from old battletombs when the next one comes out. Look at how many iterations SCE had to go through. They still need help because people who think they are playing an army of Sigmar’s chosen don’t feel it.

Nice choice. That is my absolute favorite Delusion/Battalion combo. Although I generally save it for multiplayer team battles. You didn’t do anything wrong. An all muscle elite FEC force’s the only hope would be to hit the weakest area with lowest return charges. Preferably with the Infernals & summoned Varghulf in position to return slain Flayers. With so few objective holders I might have gone “all in” with one Flayer unit and pray to Nagash, it’s a hard call. When running solo FEC there’s always at least one unit of ghouls. That’s our highest return of points to wounds/dice. Oddly enough I rarely use Deadwatch in 2k games. There are other better options, it feels like a downgrade. In multiplayer battles where Deadwatch can do their elite thing I’ll pounce on soft opportune targets that need elimination or snag objectives. At times after prying Feast Day from my cold undead fingers Blisterskin with Cogs is all “death from above” or “go, go, speed racer.” One tip when fighting Khorne. Bloodtithe is nasty. It’s generally best to have durable units to deny/reduce payout. During a very competitive store league match an opponent had to stop a crucial spell cast using points he got from his lost units (a bunch were MSU). Post battle report he shared his frustration at having such a limited pool to spend. I would have possibly won if he blobbed up more or misspent his tithe points.

There’s another added benefit as well. AoS has generally done a good job of moving away from the old Hero-Hammer days of WFB. Bill has more dice (point-for-point) for dishing out damage at the cost of a higher precision attacks on a GKoTG. My blobs of 40x ghouls always come with an Archregent and the holy grail. So much board control, up to two objectives with careful planning and a little luck. After the first two Death sets of endless dud spells FECs’ were some kind of miracle. Just the act of replacing (and repositioning) crypt ghouls can be a whole other meta game.

Kremmler is my old favorite. Personally the only WFB returning heroes should be those who achieved god-hood or escaped off planet before the big bang. AoS feels less creative with the copy and paste approach. If GW wanted to do some weird reincarnation thing then work that into the lore where someone is much alike. That would have been less sad than what they’ve done now.

I don’t know your overall strategy or local meta but as a Chainwrasp fan here’s my two coins for Charon. In blocks of ten they are decent speed bumps or back-objective sitters. In units of twenty they are far more durable than one would think with only a 5+ invuln. A unit of thirty will certainly gum up a fight or hold a narrow pass. Personally I’m a big fan of the twenty bedsheet units. At the font they take hits pretty well screening important units. Unwary opponents can be pressured depending what they see behind them. I’ve locked up big-expensive-meanies for turns while the real battle is elsewhere. In the rear they can ice-out the options for deepstrike or board-edge flankers. If back-objective sitting and something gets there they can hold their own. Most dice spamming enemies can’t also redeploy and those the one’s who best counter chainsrasps point-for-point. Although I can definitely see a unit of thirty pinning something or running interference for your Ghrimghasts. As far as the shooting meta goes KO (and some Lumineth armies) will like this fight. Focus fire will drop the necromancer with expected statistical rolls and Nagash may or may not drop several levels (or just drop) in one round of shooting. The best case scenario would be if bedsheet units acted as a distraction-carnafix. If I was deploying that army I’d try to screen out Nagash and the Necromaner 20”+ from the enemy for some extreme armchair quarterbacking. It would be rough against Lumineth since some of the spells you really want to negate are the unit casting for 5+ to-hit moral wound spam.

That may have been the mono-build at tournaments. I haven’t seen that data. I what I do know is they were still under the 25% tournament win rate so statistically okay under the four-alliance structure of AoS. Personally PE nerfing or GWs normal Death nerfing doesn’t matter as much as the fact they never “fix” anything. People just have to wish their next book finally gets around to it. Aside Changehost immediately changed the meta on the day DoT of re-released. Eel Force is still out there broken. Online culture has opened up a fascination world of meta-gaming with GW. People can run political campaigns to get what they want so some problems are gleefully nerfed while most are ignored. OBR can enjoy the garbage bin of the tournament scene. At least they can still be in it compared to other hipster Death factions.

If OBR had that kind of advantage their ITC rankings would have been significantly higher. Rather their tournament “win” ranking in general would be. LRL and Seraphon both already have means to ignore blocking terrain. Khadron mobility on sky-vessels and balloon-boys can lessen the effect on their shooting. So it’s rather convenient we have a broken realm that mostly effects older or basic books. Personally I’m not a fav of adding another battlefield complexity set-up that is apparently forced by match play rules. That material should have stayed optional for when there is time and will to do it.

If game options are that toxic then they aren’t worth playing with. WAAC Players are the worst.

Magnetization is for winners! Both of my screamer pulled chariots got that treatment. My elite Tzaangor will get it when they are eventually assembled. Aside GW after 6th WFB has made an art form of writing bad rules. When they threw “entirely within” at us it caused some pretty serious arguments. If going by the core rules structure any part of the base would count for being in range. The only times GW has ever required whole bases was in certain rule sets with placed templates. However anyone familiar with Warmachine and suspected GW just stole it was right about the entire base needing to be in the measurement.

But, but, three by three is where it’s at! I agree having them being able to teleport is tier 1 gameplay. With normal use having to think about deployment, plan, and most importantly giving your opponent a reasonable ability to counter them is what helps keep them in balance. In Forbidden Power the extra movement endless-spell requires sacrifice, Warp Spiders in 40k have disappeared in the warp, and the KO with fly-high can be countered with board-control tactics. Maybe GW needs to do a core mechanic patch, they did it with reinforcement points once. If CP isn’t enough then instead maybe a mortal wound or slain-roll mechanic for teleporting Changehost and Serephon units.

Using Nighthaunt in Lady Orleander’s Legion from the Forbidden Power book is particularly solid. The regenerating units is crucial against high damage output armies. I was able to play competitively against Skaven when normally they would have out damage diced and wound tanked me. Regardless of book killing the Nighthaunt heroes like Aeonotakist said is key. Removing entirely-within-aura-buffs and deathless-spirits.

Any point increase on Flamers will nerf them out of the game. They are an expensive and extremely fragile glass cannon. Compared to the same valued Kharadron Thunderers who have more tank and less damage. Cities of Sigmar black powder options enjoy either armor, wounds, and/or rend advantages at relative costs. I don’t see how a 20 point per wound model with variable-reliability attacks needs a point increase. Especially when there is a host of comparable models that would need a universal point increase to keep things balanced. Balance in that case effectively being the removal of that group of ranged combat from AoS. The biggest issue is the Changehost Warscroll Battalion itself. I played against the Serephon years ago and their free teleport was a dominant game feature. I’m really surprised the play-testing didn’t encourage GW to remove that sort of mechanic or fix it with restrictions like CP cost. Changehost may have been an attempt to give DoT a tournament level option or an offset for weak amor and wound counts at expensive point values. Regardless if something has to be nerfed out of the game I’d choose a Warscroll Battalion over a unit any day of the week.

Depending on the point loads I’ve deployed a single block of 20 or 30 when running a nearby Barrak-Nar hero. They can function as a broad protective barrier that throws an exceptional volume of dice (at close range) by sky-dwarve standards. Normally the concern is having to bank a Command Point to deal with heavy casualties. Hence keeping a Champion of Progress entirely within twelve frees up that CP for one of the other five options. I’m partial to the shooting one.

At 3k point games I want to run a two drop with an Iron Sky Command and a Grundstok Escort Wing. It feels a little light on infantry wounds with only 20x Arkanauts, 15x Thunderers, and 6x Riggers. Can’t imagine trying run two at 2k, even with minimal heroes to save on points. Still working on endless sub-assembly painting.

Don’t let them get in your head. Anyone who says Thunderers are too expensive to use and then flips the argument saying Ironclads ARE worth it isn’t being honest. Most things KO are expensive (by wound count) and depend heavily on how they are used. Local meta and such throw things all over the place when finding value. I’ve stopped a charging Frost Lord on a Stonehorn cold using 15 Thunderers with choking Fug trap. My Champion of Progress Khemist nearby they held him there three rounds until the big fella was finally dropped. A thousand points of Barack Nar wiped the floor with a thousand points of assaulting Boulderhead with close to fifty percent KO casualties verses a sole surviving Butcher in his backfield, The home objective was still held by my Arkanauts even after his teammate (who was playing Ziffin had mostly killed my teammate) flew over and then finally was able to shoot those Thunderers down to two models that fled during battleshock. A few notes That one Thunderers unit did not kill the Frost Lord at their 40 point cheaper point value. They just tanked it in an eye popping way. All charging Mournfang died by the end of my following shooting phase. Majority of wounds on the Frost Lord were from Battleline except for a few from the Khemist. To-Hit penalties from choking fug and atmospheric isolation are brutal. A Hail Mary spell from the Butcher sniping the Khemist gave the Frost Lord a moment of hope before he was gunned down by two units of Thunderers and a block of twenty Arkanauts. It took every shot (and close combat) to finish the job. If people were seriously concerned about point min-maxing we’d see lists of Arkanauts and Gunhaulers with discussions of how many Riggers to include for the maneuver element. tl;dr- KO Battletome has a lot of moving parts and broad statements on individual units is misleading.

When running City of the first Sunrise I like to make a footslogger hero the General then plant him amist blocks of Thindersers and/or Arkanauts. Working from one defended objective and hopefully pushing them (if possible) towards a more important table-center objective. It’s a lot of points so getting the most utility is a thing About the only time I’d consider moving away from that... Whelp looks like you have it all in hand. Carry on. When I get enough ballon boys ready I’ll try the floating Endrinmaster as a general and go for a low drop Barack-Zar list. To be perfectly honest I’m playing my KO more like they are Squats resurrected.

The battleshock immunity isn’t to be sneezed at either. Just this evening my Aether Khemist General held two units of Thunderers (10 & 15 Durin) and 30 Arkhanauts firm after a Beastclaw Raider charge and the following turn giving them enough time to gun down a four Ogor pack of Mournfangs on turn 1 and a Frost Lord by turn 3. The big guy would have died sooner but on my turn 2 shooting he couldn’t roll under a five on his shrug saves.

It certainly doesn’t help that GW uses “dice” for both the singular and plural. Although if they meant “multiple” the following probably would have said “dice rolls” instead of “dice roll.”