Nevar

Not in matched play unfortunately for our undead legions. Simply choosing a new general is a Narrative/Open Play mechanic, so snipe that Undead General and stop worrying about undead summoning. You cannot turn off the recursion from the Grave Sites and other heroes with Deathly Invocation can bring back models to units that are still alive, but bringing back an entire unit from the destroyed pile requires a command point, an unblocked Grave Site, and a living General. You can just stand units on Grave Sites to prevent units from summoning from them as well.

As a servant of Nagash I find your lack of appreciation of the skeletal hordes unsettling. That said, the skelebobs can only be returned to the battlefield via the General himself. This is a rule people often get wrong, so keep an eye on that. It is a Command Ability and must be done from a Grave Site near the general while he is still alive obviously. As a servant of Nagash primarily I will tell you a host of bow wielding aelves who can shoot all my heroes to out of their undeath is a nightmare scenario. Kill the undead general and you remove all possibility of summoning from the army. Then target the specifically 'LoN' heroes as only they have the ability to heal lost models. Any allied death heroes like Nighthaunt units and the like do not have the Invocation of Death special rule and therefore cannot bring back d3 skelebobs. Also, the Necromancer is the only one who has Danse Macabre on his warscroll, so killing him/them will cut the enemy skelebobs attack potential in half. If you are facing the God of Death himself... well then the skelebobs are not actually your problem, and shooting Nagash to death is priority number one. ============================================================================================== Undead advice to the side, I am really flip flopping between the idea of a Wanderer force or an Ironweld themed Free City force. I really love the Sisters of the Watch, and I also have always been a fan of the Swordmasters of Hoeth and the Loremaster. In the old world I served Ulthuan as a High Elf player, so I am very familiar with the various units that got splintered into a million sub-factions. That said, I am thinking of starting with a 1000 pt Order army so that I can keep my painting backlog low, and it seems like Wanderers very much need their battalion in AoS2.0 Seeing as it is nearly impossible to get the battalion in a 1k list, are Wanderers even viable as a faction outside of 2k points? Sisters of the Watch as batteline is extremely tempting, and the ability to bring in some of my old favorite High Elf models as allies now and again is pretty cool. However, a bunch of cannons and gunpowder at 1k points doesn't seem to suffer as much potentially as a Wanderer army might. What thinks the Wanderer crowd here?

Chainrasps are normally 8 pts a model, so her retinue is 48pts of her cost. The Thorns are also better than stock standard Chainrasps stats wise thanks to the built in rerolling 1's. That makes the Queeny is a 102 pt wizard with a shooting attack and a quasi Spectral Shackles spell and access to other spells like Soul Cage etc. She is also a Hero and can pass out Deathless Spirits saves to our army as per all heroes.

People were referring to "Ruler of the Spirit Host" in comparison to Lady Olynder's command ability. They were saying RotS didn't require one, not Spectral Summons.

In my experience, it is difficult to get more than 10 or 11 into melee and swinging. This makes it tempting to just use 10, but you also have to account for casualties, and the more Hexwraiths the better Spectral Hunters is. I run 15 horsemen because it makes sure they keep their melee kick well after the initial charge, and it makes sure I do not see them get wiped out in one turn. You can generally count on returning around 4 horses a hero phase with Ruler of the Spirit Host + Spirit Lure. If you are particularly keen the Beacon of Nagashizzar ensures a minimum of three hexwraiths returned per hero phase. That is minimum 6 armor 4+/6++ wounds recovered per battle round assuming no Spirit Torments are in play. Additionally, you are very likely to get more, 33% chance to recover 3 Hexwraiths with the RotSH trait alone, plus the d6+3 from a beacon of Nagashizzar is always at least two hexwraiths. You can basically assume you will revive around 4-5 Hexwraiths per hero phase between the Guardian of Souls and your General's RotSH. If you happen to have a Black Coach around it only gets better. My list is a Mounted Knight of Shrouds, Guardian of Souls, x15 Hexwraiths, and two units of minimum Spirit Hosts. That comes in at exactly 1000 points. I only place the Spirit Hosts in the underworld to tie up enemy units if they can, and the mKoS leads his Hexwraiths into the fray, though he stays back out of combat and baby sits the GoS while providing Deathless Spirits and Ruler of the Spirit Hosts. Additionally I have the option of pulling my horses out of combat with the faction Command Ability to fish for Wave of Terror, though normally I opt for the +1 attack on the Hexwraiths. The other Guardian of Souls spell could make this entire thing even better if it allows the Hexwraiths to charge after falling back, because it lets you Spectral Hunters over and over again and safetly fish for Wave of Terror. I think I could try it in 2000 points by just doubling my list and swapping on Nightmare Lantern to the new lantern.

Also, don't forget this applies to when they fallback out of combat, or move. So you can run past a unit you are not going to engage, cause mortal wounds to them, and then charge someone else. Likewise, they only need to pass over a single model as it is counted based on how many Hexwraiths and not how many enemy models. I saw someone saying that makes it less good, but it is a sliding scale. If you have only 5 Hexwraiths and you are trying to jump over a horde of 40 enemy models... only rolling 5 dice sucks. But if you are like me and have 15 Hexwraiths, and you are just clipping the edge of a single enemy model in a larger unit as you run past... I get to roll 15 dice looking for 5+ to cause mortal wounds on the run before I even decide where to charge. This allows me to potentially cripple units or heroes before I commit the charge of my Hexwraiths giving more options tactically than if it took place on the charge for instance. Especially with the Pendant, you can really make use of this rule. You can assume 2-3 Mortal Wounds in your calculations, and I have often gotten 5-6 Mortal Wounds. That can literally mean the plain removal of foot heroes in the movement phase, or more often, reducing behemoths down their damage charts before combat ensues. The Spectral Hunters rule working in the Movement phase is what makes it tactically useful. Likewise I think Hexwraiths become -more- efficient the more Hexwraiths you have, and while I am only one anecdote I have not lost a single game in which my massed Hexwraith blob made up the core of my force. This is not to say Hexwraiths are the best unit or even hold a candle to Grimghasts, but I have 20 Hexwraiths from my AoS1.0 Nighthaunt days, plus 18 Spirit Hosts from when I didn't have all the new options. I want to keep getting use out of them, and perhaps I have a bit more experience with these 'old' Nighthaunt units that a lot of the new Nighthaunt recruits who showed up with the new models and new rules.

I personally plan to take 3x10 Guild Guard with Militia weapons for fluff and modeling fun reasons. The average melee and additional guns seem to potentially work well. Likewise i do not intend to win any tourneys with my list either, it is more of a modelling/fluff project than a truly competitive one. It seems to me any unit with moderate shooting and moderate melee is actually better than people think because you can cause damage in two different phases thanks to shooting in melee. While Guild Militia are definately not good, I am not sure they are as bad as people think. Plus they do the shooting without making me want to keep them still like crossbows or handgunners and they are only 80 pts for 10 guys and a filled Battleline Slot. As to your handgunners, they -really- seem like they want to be in 30 man blocks. They hit much better in blocks of 30, and they protect their buffs in 30s. Even if they get charged, they can still shoot whoever is in melee with them, so having 30 of the guys is almost the same as having 30 halberds. I would not take them in small 10 man units if I were you. As to tanks making a front line... you can either turn them longways and leave only 6" between them like a cassock wagon wall giving you a really long frontline of pure steel. Or you can just have them steam forward to cover terrain and engage enemies out at range away from what you are defending. I intend to basically abandon my cannons with a steel clad charge with militia running along beside and behind the tanks as support/objective bodies. With four steam tanks and two Stormcasts with 30 mad militia members all plowing down on the enemy army, I am not sure they will be able to worry so much about my two measly cannons in the backfield. Time will tell.

I have just ran on the idea that the tanks -are- the front line. I put the guild guard in there just as screens or backup for the tanks. The list will struggle against deep-striking armies like the Nighthaunt, but I face a lot of elephant riders, orruks, skaven, and lizards. For the most part I expect 1 or 2 turns of shooting before my tanks and infantry are all embroiled in combat. However, by that point I hopefully was able to do enough damage to secure the wins for the tanks in the combat phases.

I have been considering a Grey Water force that includes four tanks. Knight-Incantor Lord-Ordinator Gunmaster Freeguild Guard x10 Freeguild Guard x10 Freeguild Guard x10 Cannon Cannon Steam Tank Steam Tank Steam Tank Steam Tank Quicksilver Swords Soulsnare Shackles Correct me if I am wrong, but Grey Water applies to "warmachines" so the Tanks can use it also?

Any reason you have a general on Griphon instead of a second Steam Tank? Also, you chose the Helstorm Rockets because they don't need an engineer around I guess?

Sure it does, you just have to fish with both dice. That is why Cogs is important. +2" means you need an effective 7" charge on your deep-striking units. The debate just becomes if you made the charge do you risk failing it to fish for the Wave of Terror. If this was not the case, Wave of Terror would be far too powerful.

Five Bladegesits can easily mop up support heroes and warmachines. They can capture objectives, and with the way pile-in works, they can assault the unit your main blob attacked from the opposite direction to force pile in troubles for the opponent. Used right, they can literally force whole groups of the enemy unit from piling in and attacking at all simply by engaging the unit on a different side. I removed the wings because I hate the pegesus look. He is a ghost horse already why does he have wings?

Dreadblades are very good, but they are not as fancy or flashy as Olynder nor give out the buffs people are trying to get from other heroes. Dreadblades offer mobility above all else, and in a faction where we are already pretty fast/mobile people value them less than they deserve. Don't underestimate the power of your general teleporting at will and then drawing a unit to his location for new charges or sudden objective seizes. Like the Cairn Wraith, Dreadblades are extremely good for their points, but unless you have a specific purpose in mind for them, they lack the passive synergies or outright damage of other options. Might as well take 30 Grims. 20 is enough, but 30 is better. NOVA just took place and the placing Death lists had double block of Grims. Myrmourns are outstanding, and in relation to your other question, helps reduce the number of mages you need. Cogs is not mandatory. They are good, but they also give your enemy a +2" movement not just you. Sometimes our own inherent mobility is more than enough. The main reason for Cogs, is because we Deepstrike forces behind enemy lines, and a 9" charge is difficult. COgs makes that charge a roll of a 7 on d6 instead of a 9. Once we are in the fight, how much our enemy can move becomes less important. I use 2 heroes in 1000 points, and most of my lists at 2000 include four or five. Three can be enough if you bring Myrmourns to help cover your magical defense though. 2-3 wizards is more than enough I imagine. I only have two in all my lists, one Guardian of Souls and then a hero bearing the Midnight Tome. Myrmourns can provide unbind support in the form of a unit.

I also think 20 and 5 Bladegeists are the way to go to leave you room for other things. I have played around with the idea of 40 of them, but I do not own that many. As to the success of it, I can report that I have had outstanding success with it, nearly unshiftable and mulches a lot of enemy units similarly to a Grave Guard block does. The problem is, my reports are clearly skewed, as I also usually have 15 Hexwraiths that I swear by, and it is generally accepted that Hexwraiths are not very cost effective. So as someone having extremely good success with what is considered less good units, I have to surmise that either everyone is wrong about Hexwraiths, or my local meta is not prepared to deal with Nighthaunt or are not competitive minded enough to build Tourney level lists. Personally I think it could be very good, potentially even place in a tourney, but the other units you bring, the tourney rules and missions, if they are allowing realm spells, etc. all comes into play and I cannot account for all those variables. NOVA just went off, and not one Nighthaunt player placed in the top 10. Granted... all the Death players included Grimghasts and I would rate Bladegeists better than Grims. I think it will take a little bit longer for the entire Nighthaunt codex to get run through it's paces and we will start getting a more conclusive idea on where this rates. At the moment I do not see many lists anywhere with Bladegeists, though I reckon that is because they are the newest unit for Nighthaunt and everyone is still grappling with Grimghasts, Chainrasps, and all the fancy heroes. Them drip feeding the Bladegeists to us over a month after initial release really reduced the hype for them I think. Myrmourns were sold out for weeks, and they are more situational than Bladegeists, I think our Sword Bois just missed the initial hype wave and people like us need to buckle down and start testing them more. It requires Glaivewraiths, and only effects one enemy target. In my opinion one of the worst battalions in the book. Effects are nice, but unless you are playing against Nagash and you mark him for death... you are going to put that whole battalion into killing a single enemy unit that is likely less points than your battalion? I dunno, if you already have the models in your army and you are basically just buying the artefact and CP then maybe, but I would not be caught dead with a Glaivewraith in any of my lists.

I run Shroud Guard pretty much the same. Consider the Pendant of the Fell Wind as your second artifact for the KoS, and you can let them jump even farther out of combat. Also, Guardian of Souls can make the 20 Bladegeists extremely annoying to kill with his spell, and you can give him Soul Cage to make the hit back on your Bladegeists less damaging. The only difference I play, is I use a foot KoS for the +1 to hit. With KoS and GoS they have 3 attacks hitting on 2+ and wounding on 2+, can be regenerated, have a 5++ after their 4+ Ethereal, can retreat and charge, can be either given Shademist to make less wounds find them, or can have their target hit by Soul Cage to give them a leg up. If you can get a Chaingast or Spirit Torment into the mix you are rerolling your 2+ to hit. I understand that +1 attack increases the damage potential of the combination with the mKoS, but I am the sort of player who prefers reliability over potential. I all ones can happen, but a rerolled 2+ is much closer to an auto-hit than a rerolled 3+. I have usually used the Spirit Torment for the rerolls because it is very likely three models will die, and his additional recursion is outstanding. Give him the Midnight Tome and you have two wizards right in the mix with the Bladegeists to ensure you can keep Shademist or Soul Cage up even if the Guardian of Souls is busy raising the dead. Or go with the Beacon of Nagashizzar to bring even more back and make the block nearly unshiftable. It all depends on how much you assume you will want to 'phase through' the enemy lines into their backfield or not. If they are going to be bouncing around and not duking it out in the center, you can easily trade out the Pendant for the Beacon and have best of both worlds. If you want to be unable to be locked down, Pendant and Cogs are amazing for Bladegeists.

Hey guys, So I currently serve Nagash with my Nighthaunt army, and play a very aggressive 1 turn charge all melee style. I am looking to build and Order Army that plays quite different. Originally I was going to try to make an 'Alliance of Men, Elves, and Dwarves' with a Free City, but the soup Order is very all over the place. The old Empire units all divided means I can't go with Free Peoples and have enough allied points for artillery AND dwarves and elves, which means I am stuck with generic Order if I go that route. While a huge line of cannons sounds cool, it also sounds extremely static and not fun for my opponent to play against. I am looking to play a ranged heavy army so that it is the exact opposite of the Nighthaunt I have, but also mobile and interesting to play as and against. Obviously you all have a bias living here in the Wanderers section, but would you say Wanderers are more or less fun to play against than a Free Peoples gunline? Free Guild handgunners can be extremely brutal if static, but it seems like Sisters of the Watch can be nearly as good with less synergy and less models. Trying to decide between a gunpowder army or aelf arrows army to compliment my Nighthaunt collection.

Just a quick lore question for the SCE crowd. Are all of the Stormcasts former 'humans' ? Are there any elf Stormcasts, or Duardin Stormcasts? I ask because Sigmar was collecting the most heroic souls, and by the time that was happening many of the other race's gods were dead, shattered, in hiding, etc. I can't see why the head of the Order Pantheon wouldn't whisk away a particularly brave elf or dwarf. Obviously they get reforged into Stormcasts either way, but seeing as we have seen aelves 'remade' into gorgon snake ladies, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to assume Sigmar can shape even a stunty into a Stormcast.

Yeah the main issue for me, is just that I never liked the look of the Chainrasps to begin with. After the Dreadscythes they are my least favorite Nighthaunt models. I recognize that they are good models, just not my kind of aesthetic. This warband is dissappointing to me just because they are Chainrasp based. I would have preferred a Grimghast/Bladegeist/Lord Executioner/Hexwraith styled warband, maybe even a Chaingast for a ranged attack or something. Maybe they will be cool, but I like these models around as much as I like the Sepulchural Guard. That is to say, I still like both Death Warbands... but it sort of feels like we have x2 skeleton warbands. Chainrasps are just the Nighthaunt Skelebobs. I was expecting a more elite death unit like we have seen with the other factions. Khorne started with Blood Reavers, then 'upgraded' to Blood Warriors. Stormcasts had a random mix of Stormcasts, then 'upgraded' to elite scouts. Death seems to shuffled sideways. I will not be surprised if they don't also get revived somehow like the skelebobs do, but we shall see.

Welp, the Briar Queen or whatever her name is looks awesome and extremely flimsy. Other than Cage Face and Hanging Man the rest are super boring. Headless is a bit of a laugh I suppose, but the other three are nearly just the same chain rasps with head swaps. Dude with the flail literally just has a metal vice on his head otherwise he is the same chainrasp. Love that banshee leader though, will likely buy the warband just to have her as a Tomb Banshee or mix her into my Myrmourn.

Hey guys, just a clarification on Sisters of the Watch needed. It specifies that they can 'attack twice' if they did not move, it does not say they get +1 attack. The reason I am a bit confused, is that the leader shoots twice already. People keep suggesting the leader gets an additional shot if she doesn't move... So... do they get +1 shot from not moving, or do they get a second attack sequence from not moving. For the most part this results in nearly the same amount of dice rolled, so it might seem an inconsiquential specific, however if for example a unit is in melee with a couple Blood Reavers a second attack sequence is far superior to +1 shot as you could loose your first volley into the melee killing the Reavers and clearing you from being engaged to free up the second volley to shoot at other targets. Likewise, I first came upon this while playing Skirmish. If I don't move with my Leader, does she shoot four shots because she attacks twice with 2 shots each time? I am really not trying to rules lawyer here, it seems to be a very specific wording on the Sisters of the Watch as every other unit I can find that gets added attacks, the rules say "+1 attack with x weapon" where the Sisters have a rule called Quick Silver Shot that specifies that "A Unit of Sisters of the Watch can attack twice in their shooting phase if they did not move in their movement phase." Unless there is an FAQ or something, it seems clear to me that this is two seperate shooting attack sequences that can potentially be split between two different targets if you so choose, and in the case of Skirmish, the Leader can shoot four times if she doesn't move, twice at two different targets. What do you guys think?

Might as well take the Soul Snare Shackles endless spell at 20 points instead of losing them. That spell is pretty good, especially when it would round out your list without cutting into your extra CPs.

MMmm... perhaps I have looked at the word 'enemy' the wrong way. That enemy refers to the enemy of the caster or the enemy of the that unit? I was reading that as if all the victim's enemy units have already fought. However I can also see it meaning all the other units on the side of the target unit. I dunno... someone more versed in the rules might chime in.

No... they strike last... that means if they have one massive unit, and you charge it with six small units... all six of your units go before his one unit ever fights.

I see the downside of not having the Engineer Keyword on most of the Ironweld artillery. Correct me if I am wrong though, but the Celestar Ballista and the Steam Tank do not benefit from the Keyword 'Engineer' at all correct? It is mainly Ironweld stuff that can reroll certain dice when baby sat by an engineer, and worse yet they almost all are within 1" of the artillery piece. That means one engineer can potentially camp on two artillery cannons each, requiring two gunmasters for instance to sit between four cannons as example. Lord-Ordinator can stand in the general area of your artillery to give out a +1 to hit universally to Celestars, Cannons, and Steam Tanks to boot. Hitting on a 3+ and rerolling 4+ are pretty close to the same effect, two Gunmasters run us 160 points, 20 points more than one Ordinator, although I will admit and point out that the Gunmasters have long rifles to help with the battle. Lord-Ordinator only gets into the fight if the enemy is on top of your artillery. The way I see it, I want both engineers and Lord-Ordinator. Celestar Ballista hitting on 2+ at long range, and cannons hitting on re-rolled 3+ is extremely good it seems. Feedback on this idea is wanted. GREYWATER FASTNESS Lord-Ordinator - Grand Hammer Gunmaster - Long Rifle Spellweaver Freeguild Militia x10 Freeguild Handgunners x30 Dwarf Warriors x10 Dwarf Warriors x10 Celestar Ballista x2 Cannons x2 Steam Tank Sisters of the Watch x10 Freeguild Greatswords x10 1960/2000 Points Several of the units in this army are for flavor or because I already own the models. Greatswords, Militia, and Handgunners are models I own for a 1k army, so that is why they are included. Militia also have more guns while also being melee chaff. Dwarf warriors are cheap battle line that ca also play picket fence between my arty and sharp sticks. Handgunners are the bulk of my infantry, but in a pinch are also cushion for the artillery section. Steam Tank because Steam Tank. Spellweaver is a wizard for magical defense and also has a once per game auto-unbind to save my bacon from comets and the like. As a bonus she can revive the Sisters of the Watch if they are not wiped out. Sisters of the Watch can be witheringly good if they don't move and no one shoots them back, plus they can stand just behind the meat shields and get to shoot during the charge phase if anyone is foolish enough to multicharge into them. The downside is obviously objective scoring, but I mainly plan on using this as a castle force with smaller chaff units grabbing objectives and also slowing down enemy advance. Dwarf warriors, militia, greatswords, and steam tank can move up to contest in the mid field if the enemy doesn't have deep-strike shinanigans, and the ranged elements should be able to offer support where needed to make the 10 man units able to win or contest side objectives. I will be unlikely to ever hold any objectives in the enemy deployment zone.

Nothing about being the victim of a Soul Cage is good. Striking last means you can put this on their 'big unit' their horde or elites or monsters, and then pile on the attacks from your whole army before it gets a chance to return in kind. You can very easily dog-pile your enemy's key units with Soul Cage, and at 1k points, most armies only have one or two key combat units since there is not as much points to spend on redundancy.