Worse units in AOS

[FRoper]

i am trying to create a list of the worst units in the game, these are units that are either out classed by other units or the rules just make them unusable in matched play. 

Combat: what is the worst dedicated close combat unit. Empire Knights,

Shooting: what is the worst dedicated shooting unit: Skeleton Archers, Moonclan grots(bows), Flamers of Tzeentch,

behemoth: what is the worst behemoth in the game: Ale Gargant

Artillery: What is the worst artillery in the game: Squig Gobba, Doomwheel,

spells: which spell is useless and has no use. Roused to Wrath (Branch wraith), 

hero: which hero is the worst unit in the game. Witch Hunter, Kairos fateweaver, Skarr Bloodwrath, Doom seeker, 

unusual: a unit that does not really fit into the above: Snotlings, 

 

[Chris Tomlin]

Here's a starting point for you @FRoper;

 

[The Traitor]

Ha, it is fun to see my thread quoted in here, yeah Squig Gobbas are pretty terrible!

[Thanatos Ares]

Snotlings. But they've also won due to rule of cool


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Furious]

Snotlings are pretty bad, all around.

Heroes? Maybe Witch hunters? Though I don't know all warscrolls well enough to really comment on any of this (other than the Squig Gobba, I'm confident that's the worst warscroll in the game period).

Are point values considered?

[SpiritofHokuto]

The Branchwraith's personal spell is pretty terrible in Matched Play. There's always the possibility that you could end up essentially paying 120 points for two Dryads.

[FRoper]

2 hours ago, Furious said:

Snotlings are pretty bad, all around.

Heroes? Maybe Witch hunters? Though I don't know all warscrolls well enough to really comment on any of this (other than the Squig Gobba, I'm confident that's the worst warscroll in the game period).

Are point values considered?

yea due to it being matched played considered.

[Furious]

Oh right I missed that part

[The Traitor]

I don't think snotlings are that bad, they bring a lot of wounds for their cost and are literally the cheapest destruction unit, apart from being bravery 10! 

You see one of the things that I'm most liking about AoS is that there are very very few "bad" units, some options might be superior to others but there is almost nothing that you won't take because it can cripple your army.

[Bradifer]

Worst behemoth?

I would think some of the random Chaos/Destruction behemoths with no syergy-support, overcosted, and goofy rules. Like the Ale Gargant.

Worst Shooting maybe Skeleton Archers? They seem like you need 30-40 to really do anything and you have to pile synergy on, but i suppose there is potential.

There are a number of shooting units with a single ~4+ to hit shooting attack, and otherwise they just miss. Can't recall names at the moment.

[KevenM]

Worst shooting - moonclan grots (archers) they don't benefit from any of the bonuses that make melee moonclan grots pretty solid, have garbage melee, ****** range on the bows and +5/+5/-/1 ...

I only ever use them to sit on objectives or as a fanatic bus...

[arka0415]

Don't knock my boy the Witch Hunter! He does... moderate damage and kind of counters wizards, a little? He's also the single best 60pt unit in the Devoted of Sigmar faction!

[Furious]

Witch Hunters are super cool. Love the models, aesthetic, idea behind them... But their warscroll doesn't come even close to reflecting how cool they are.

[Kosmion]

Skaven weapon teams...in melee

[Terry Pike]

Worst shooting unit in matched play: Flamers of Tzeentch

Most overcosted junk available. 6 wounds for 200pts, no rend, 5+save. compare to Skyfires or Kurnoth hunters... what a joke. unusable in competitive play.

[Malin]

Daemons were a wasted option in my opinion, no major updates to scrolls and points costs in both books. Guess they face the syndrome of "Old miniatures which people already have, no updates then, let them buy new toys instead"...

[Killax]

5 minutes ago, Malin said:

Daemons were a wasted option in my opinion, no major updates to scrolls and points costs in both books. Guess they face the syndrome of "Old miniatures which people already have, no updates then, let them buy new toys instead"...

???
I really don't know where this idea comes from but several Tzeentch and Khorne Daemons are super legit. Nurgle and Slaanesh are left behind a little but no more as any faction who doesn't have a full detailed Battletome yet.
 

[Malin]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

???
I really don't know where this idea comes from but several Tzeentch and Khorne Daemons are super legit. Nurgle and Slaanesh are left behind a little but no more as any faction who doesn't have a full detailed Battletome yet.
 

New units, are ok, but look at chariots of Tzeentch (overcosted), Flamers (overcosted), Screamers (this unit is just a joke at that price). Adjusting Kairos was no brainer and good that it happened. I am not opponent of nerfing bent stuff.

Flesh hounds - make them cheaper and most of all in plastic, maybe two units in one box, one with good potential in killing characters (1 headed variant), other good versus units (3 headed variant)

Crushers - even though Crushers got new rule, they still seem to be not so attractive option.

Think that hose units could either get cheaper or get some new rules to make them viable for the current price. There is a hope that GH2 might adjust and tweak the points costs. Other thing is lack of rules updates or wording in some of the scrolls.

 

For example, unit of Flesh Hounds summoned by Karanak, seems it can be deployed in combat immediately. Not to mention poor wording and ongoing debates on Changeling deployment.

 

But most of all, give us FaQ, do we really now if Destiny Dice can or can't be used for Mortal Wounds...

[Terry Pike]

2 minutes ago, Malin said:

Adjusting Kairos was no brainer and good that it happened. I am not opponent of nerfing bent stuff

This was a terrible change in points.

Kairos had his scroll updated so he could not change the priority roll. This took away a huge amount of power which I agree with.

He was made about 4-5 times his size in height and volume making him easier to target.

Rule of 1 already nerfed his special casting rules.

His base size was largely increased allowing more models to attack him in combat, and decreasing his manoeuvrability on the table.

He got a lot worse and his points went up. This is not how you balance warscrolls.

[Killax]

10 minutes ago, Malin said:

New units, are ok, but look at chariots of Tzeentch (overcosted), Flamers (overcosted), Screamers (this unit is just a joke at that price). Adjusting Kairos was no brainer and good that it happened. I am not opponent of nerfing bent stuff.

Flesh hounds - make them cheaper and most of all in plastic, maybe two units in one box, one with good potential in killing characters (1 headed variant), other good versus units (3 headed variant)

Crushers - even though Crushers got new rule, they still seem to be not so attractive option.

Think that hose units could either get cheaper or get some new rules to make them viable for the current price. There is a hope that GH2 might adjust and tweak the points costs. Other thing is lack of rules updates or wording in some of the scrolls.

For example, unit of Flesh Hounds summoned by Karanak, seems it can be deployed in combat immediately. Not to mention poor wording and ongoing debates on Changeling deployment.

But most of all, give us FaQ, do we really now if Destiny Dice can or can't be used for Mortal Wounds...

To me Desciples of Tzeentch is a typical example of how GW implemented certain very powerful pieces that are new and left out some of the older ones. However in many cases updates arn't needed because of how powerful that specific Alliance became in the first place.
Looking at models in a vacume is not balancing things out well either. As 9 Destiny Dice can severly skew 'what is good' because everything can become good with really good dice.

As a Khorne player Flesh Hounds are perfect deal at 100 points per 5. They can un-bind extremely well and characters who cost 100 points most often can't even do that like they can. Their speed and attack quantity is also certainly allright.

To me the only reason as to why Bloodcrushers can be considered 'worse' is because they compete directly with Skullcrushers. Who have one more attack, one more wound and otherwise fufill the exact same roll. However, much more was gained for Bloodcrushers as just Murderous Charge. All Daemonic Battalion costs reflect how potent they can become for a small additional investment (20/30/40 point Battalions adding way more power as is common for that cost). Bloodcrushers could have been 20-ish points cheaper, the Battalions then would become 20-ish points more expensive. 

The way GW handles it's wording has very little to do with 'worse' units  I agree with you that DoT is full of hit and miss choices but some of the perception that some seem to create as if Skyfires should be the Tzeentch unit standard is something I can't agree with. As said, Destiny Dice are one heck of a Battle Trait (obscene under 1K) and this too has it's cascading effect on unit rulings.



 

[Tasman]

9 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

This was a terrible change in points.

Kairos had his scroll updated so he could not change the priority roll. This took away a huge amount of power which I agree with.

He was made about 4-5 times his size in height and volume making him easier to target.

Rule of 1 already nerfed his special casting rules.

His base size was largely increased allowing more models to attack him in combat, and decreasing his manoeuvrability on the table.

He got a lot worse and his points went up. This is not how you balance warscrolls.

Yup. No real reason to use him now.... His one-time ability is not worth the 40 pts over a LoC. 

[Nico]

Quote

This was a terrible change in points.

Kairos had his scroll updated so he could not change the priority roll. This took away a huge amount of power which I agree with.

He was made about 4-5 times his size in height and volume making him easier to target.

Rule of 1 already nerfed his special casting rules.

His base size was largely increased allowing more models to attack him in combat, and decreasing his manoeuvrability on the table.

He got a lot worse and his points went up. This is not how you balance warscrolls.

Yep - he's very hard to justify as being even as good as a regular LoC, let alone better:

• No artefact
• No trait
• No command ability
• No -2 rend option
• No shooting option
• The spell is worse than Gateway and yet they've nerfed it some more by making it get weaker as he takes wounds
• Cannot be taken in a battalion slot for a Lord of Change.

[Terry Pike]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Bloodcrushers could have been 20-ish points cheaper, the Battalions then would become 20-ish points more expensive. 

I'm all in favour of this.  8 Units of crushers would save you 160 points, increasing the battaltion by 20 would then give you the same thing with 3 extra crushers

[FRoper]

Can we try and keep this to worst units please.

[rokapoke]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

Cannot be taken in a battalion slot for a Lord of Change.

He's got the keyword though... ?