Let's chat : Maggotkin of Nurgle

[Arkiham]

3 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Furies, beasts of nurgle, and marauders are the options for nurgle marked units worth 60 pts. 

To both @Arkiham and @Darksider, I would recommend NOT taking the single model worth 420-500 pts in a 1000 pt game. In my experience, you need numbers and speed to compete in those smaller games (5/6 missions require multiple scoring threats or straight up numbers), and the monstrous general just soak too many points to effectively split your force.

maybe. ill have fun though =)

[Tasman]

14 hours ago, Arkiham said:

maybe. ill have fun though =)

That's what it's all about.

[Peegee]

Hi there !!

Convinced by the points reduction of the battalion, the one drop possibility and my love for Chaos Warriors, I'm trying to build a very competitive Plaguetouched under GHB 2017.

I've started with this  :

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
Harbinger of Decay (140)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Battleline
28 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
14 x Chaos Knights (480)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Slaves to Darkness Battleline
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Battalions
Plaguetouched Warband (100)

Total: 1960/ 2000

 

The idea was to use the Knights as a "replacement" for Sayl, supposed to rush the table and block it until the Warriors could make it.

I tested it against a very strong Vanguard Wing with a 30 Liberators pack and got crushed. He was on me turn 1 and I couldn't break his anvil unit.

I tend to think that Sayl is mandatory and there's no point avoiding him, even if you lose the "one drop".

Moreover, the "mortal backfire" ability is so strong, I want to rely even more on it.

So I'm now working on this version :

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
Harbinger of Decay (140)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Bloab Rotspawned (240)
Sayl The Faithless (120)

Battleline
28 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
35 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (180)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Battalions
Plaguetouched Warband (100)

Total: 2000/ 2000

 

I feel safer having a second anvil with the Marauders, especially with the Fleshy Abundance and a Mystic Shield. They act "almost" as a second Chaos Warrior unit. The idea is to maximize the Grandfather's Favour and make it lethal for the opponent to attack my blocks.

Sayl can now reposition the units and even if he's a bit nerfed, the spell now works as a deep strike and not just an enhanced movement. 

The Warshrine give another invulnerability save, which is great, but you have to commit it a bit forward.

Glottkin and Bloab act as mortal wounds generator to slowly grind the opponent front units.

What I miss is a sniping solution for opponent Heroes and a way to deal with gunlines.

Sorry for the long post, I now summon the Plaguetouched experts ( @Thomas Lyons ?) for feedback and advices !

Long live the (rotten) flesh !!

 

 

[Thomas Lyons]

1 hour ago, Peegee said:

Sorry for the long post, I now summon the Plaguetouched experts ( @Thomas Lyons ?) for feedback and advices !

I think your head is in the right space.  Ultimately, I think Glottkin is a trap.  Get rid of him.  We can also take Warriors in a block of 14 now and get the same bonuses, so don't underestimate that.  The lists I've been kicking around involve these same things, with Sayl, and either 1 or 2 Plagueclaws, as being 3-4 drop still isn't terrible.  Those are my initial thoughts.

[decker_cky]

1 hour ago, Thomas Lyons said:

I think your head is in the right space.  Ultimately, I think Glottkin is a trap.  Get rid of him.  We can also take Warriors in a block of 14 now and get the same bonuses, so don't underestimate that.  The lists I've been kicking around involve these same things, with Sayl, and either 1 or 2 Plagueclaws, as being 3-4 drop still isn't terrible.  Those are my initial thoughts.

I think Glottkin has some game. He definitely needs the right support. Currently, I see two ways to take him:

1.) In an army with a Harbringer general. He loses his awesome command trait, but gains a 5+ ward, pushing him to crazy resilient.  Keep him within 7" of the Harbringer at all times. 

2.) As a general. He has a great command trait with an awesome range (how many 14" auras from a 130mm base are there in the game?). Without the 5+ ward, he's actually quite vulnerable, so strongly consider including Festus (glued to him for an extra D3 heal per turn) and/or a warshrine (keep it close so he gets a 6+ ward even if it suffers a few wounds). His abilities as general best support daemons and pestilens stuff. 

Top units for him are plaguebearers (best target for his spell, solid bonus from his command trait), plague monks (best target for his command trait, solid bonus from his spell), plague drones (great target for his command trait), and himself (great target for his command trait). 

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the glottkin.

[decker_cky]

1 minute ago, Auticus said:

I think efficiency wise the Glottkin is a bit under the curve.  His damage output is pretty good, but not for the price you pay for him.  He ends up in the bottom 1/5 of the game in terms of his efficiency there.  His defensive capabilities are also good but again, not for what you pay for him (he's at the bottom 1/3 of the game in terms of his defensive efficiency)

As such his points cost are a couple notches too high to consider in a competitive min/max contest.  If he were to drop in cost by a considerable amount, he'd definitely be something I'd consider but until then I'd never take him in any type of tournament environment because you are at that point effectively operating at about a 10% handicap to your opponent if they are running under top efficiency.

You think he's 200 pts overpriced? That's ludicrous. 

He brings a lot to the table. He's pretty fast (basically as fast as it gets for nurgle), casts two spells (and his personal spell is potent and always useful on something), has a solid 12" shot (basically as good as it gets for nurgle), is pretty resilient (and there's several options to turn this up to 11) and has a solid melee profile. He can become a total tank within range of a harbringer (effectively 24 wounds to chew through, plus  regeneration if he's not put down all at once) and becomes a massive headache in a plaguetouched warband. I'd argue is one of the best models in the game at holding the objective in the hero/behemoth mission (ie, with the right support, he can claim and hold one of the objectives all game, guaranteeing a draw or better).  He's maybe 30-40 pts too expensive out of the box (note: only 1.5% of a 2000 pt army, which is statistical noise), but he's a solid base that absolutely sings with the right support.

[Arkiham]

I like glott  but he has to be part of plaguetouched.. so a mortal list, so you need plenty of heals.

7 units plus general. You'll want 4 of them able to heal, with 2 or three dedicated to glott, so, 2 blightkings and festus, maybe a guo if points allow. If you're running mortal you may as well take the new nurgle wheel.

Yes it doesn't work well With plaguetouched on one of the turns but the others will, and you get to keep glott as general. 

The greater daemon of nurgle really skews glottkins value.

500 for a 16 wound 3+ 5+ d3 heal a turn unnamed character, dealing 2d6 3+2+-2 d3 damage hits at range with a further 4 attacks 3+2+-2 3 damage  with impact hits. And he gets to pick a unit for 1+ attack, and can heal using his spell..

TL:Dr? 

if you're considering glottkin, you may as well go greater daemon of nurgle.

[decker_cky]

I disagree on the efficiency numbers you're bandying about, but I'll drop it because we're having a completely abstract conversation. 

Glottkin brings a lot of things nurgle lists tend to lack, and can really turn games on their heads in some cases (for example, forcing your opponent to munch through 30 two wound plaguebearers, or charging their lines with 6 attack plague monks). Numbers are important in GHB2017, and Glottkin is built to make your numbers count for more, so despite taking a huge chunk of your army, he supports a numbers game. Beyond that...he also is a great choice in the hero/behemoth mission, and provides potent ranged shooting. 

As I set out in my initial post, there's two very different ways to use glottkin:

1.) As general, he should NOT be in a plaguetouched warband, because he supports daemons and pestilens better than he supports mortals. The -1 to hit in melee is less important because he should sit behind support and focus on his buffs, magic and shooting (though he's always a potent countercharge option).

2.) As a monster, he should generally be in a plaguetouched warband under the command of a harbringer, who brings much more to mortals. Here he can be used much more aggressively as a combat piece, so the -1 to hit in melee is essential.

As to the comparison with an exalted great unclean one, I think their value is comparable. Glottkin is less resilient, but has a better spell and better command trait than the exalted great unclean one. I think the extra 5" range on glottkin's shooting is significant, but the EGUO has a much more devastating shot.  Glottkin is 2" faster (greatly increasing the threat range of glottkin's shot). Glottkin has much better damage output in combat (significant, since you only get to shoot on your turn).  Not something on its card, but glottkin's magic works from the back line, while EGUO's magic has a short range and needs to be in the thick of things, meaning a bigger chance his spells could be in range for dispel attempts. 

[Arkiham]

I am unconvinced tbh ,

plaguebearers are often ( if possible ) ignored anyway,

not offensive, hard to kill, slow,  Go ahead cast your +1 wound on them, unless they're on an objective I probably don't care,  +1attack. .. meh I guess potentially could do a extra wound  if I don't have high armour..

grats you made the tankiest unit on the field even more so,  so I definately won't be wasting resources attacking them unless I have to.

 

On drones ?

Drones are over priced, and again aren't particularly scary due to their low numbers 

Stick it on the rat folk, great.

Or on blightkings , the guys with exploding attacks. 4 attacks each, 6s doing d6 wounds. 25 attacks from the unit, on 3+3+ that's like 4 6s for avg 4 more wounds 16 total.  

You're probably rolling more to wound dice than to hit.. Not a common thing.

 

If i am Coming across as snarky. it is not meant so

[shadowgra]

I honestly think that the glottkin is pretty nice in some lists. OFC he will BR the #1 focus of your opponent. The best way to put him in a list imho is as the general. His damage output is pretty lacking if you compare with one of the BT for example (which also costs less and is faster).

I personally like him a lot with daemons more than pestilens. He doesn't add a lot to a pestilens army in my opinion (plague monks aside). He doubles the damage output of plaguebearers and boosts the drones pretty nicely.

I think he now is in a better spot than before. At 420 he is not so bad at all. 

I personally would rather get bloab rather than the glottkin in a plaguetouched. Way more useful. The plaguetouched doesn't need punch imho, needs resilience and speed.

 

Regarding the exalted guo, the real thing that puts guo above any other leader in the game is the mystic shield+oracular visione combo. As an objective controller the eguo is really really strong.

16 W, 2+ reroll 1, 5+ DR, heals D3, plague wind and a shooting attack that is really devastating. It can potentially deal 36 wounds!!

 

Personally until battletome i think that the glottkin is the only way to make a Nurgle allegiance work (i mean the wheel)

[Arkiham]

Agreed. If you're running the wheel you may as well take glott, 

 

I personally feel the plagueclaws are nearly mandatory, apparently in the nova open there was many armies running huge hordes, 360 points reserved as anti horde isn't alot. Combine it with epi for 540 (1/4 ) your army, you could potentially be rocking +1 save army wide turn 1. Putting alot of things to a 3+ or 2+.

Just gotta keep him save

[shadowgra]

Yeah epidemius is exceptionally good right now. Maybe a tier 1 choice for a non plaguetouched list.

I personally will play at least 1 catapult

[decker_cky]

3 hours ago, Arkiham said:

Agreed. If you're running the wheel you may as well take glott, 

 

3 hours ago, shadowgra said:

Personally until battletome i think that the glottkin is the only way to make a Nurgle allegiance work (i mean the wheel)

Definitely agree - he benefits more than most from the wheel, and gives up almost nothing for it.

[AllanBallan]

I have a list with glottkin I would like you fine people to judge.

The list is:

Glottkin

Epidemius

Demon prince of nurgle with wings ang axe

Demon prince of nurgle with wings ang axe

30 x Plaguebearers

10 x Marauders, Mark of nurgle, axe and shield

10 x Marauders, Mark of nurgle, axe and shield

5 x Blightkings

5 x Furies, Mark of nurgle

3 x Nurglings

Plagueclaw catapult

Plagueclaw catapult

1990 points.

 

I think it will work in this meta of big hordes.

Thing with glott and 30 plaguebearers is that it is hard not to get stuck with plaguebearers, they have a HUDGE footprint and with glottkin they might aswell be a immortal (atleast it feels that way)

I wonder if I should use nurglings for summoning, but i dont know if it is worth it because glott will use both his spells on the plaguebearers each turn.

At max epidemius buff the pair demon princes rock a 2+ save and with the nurgle wheel thingie, they will do some healing.

Any way to maximize this list more?

Thank you in advance for all feedback!

[shadowgra]

I do think that blightkings have no purpose in this list. Nurglings too.

What about more plaguebearers?

Also bile trolls with epidemius buffs are awesome!

[AllanBallan]

Blightkings are amazing when you get the buffs to reroll 1s to hit and wound.

Nurglings are there because after GHB 2017 i got 90 points left over to spend somewhere

[AllanBallan]

without blightkings and nurglings i have 260 points leftover.

What could I use theese points for to add more punch to the list?

[Peegee]

45 minutes ago, AllanBallan said:

without blightkings and nurglings i have 260 points leftover.

What could I use theese points for to add more punch to the list?

2 x Jabberslythe ?

Not Nurgle but punchy enough I guess.

[shadowgra]

I think that ur list doesn't need more punch at all. You already have glottkin, 2 princes and 2 plagueclaw

I would add more plaguebearers.

 

This is the list i am trying to build now:

Glottkin

Horticulus

Daemon prince

30 plaguebearers

30 plaguebearers

10 marauders

6 drones

Plagueclaw

[decker_cky]

5 hours ago, AllanBallan said:

without blightkings and nurglings i have 260 points leftover.

What could I use theese points for to add more punch to the list?

+10 pts you had left in the army

A second block of plaguebearers would be solid in that list imo. 

You could keep the second marauder unit as-is, you could combine the marauders, take a second unit of furies, or take a beast of nurgle.

[Greasygeek]

So whats everyones verdict? Horticulux Slimux (200) vs Epidemius(180). Both have (kinda) similar buffs (reroll to hit). However Epidemius need lots of slain models to work but his buffs will eventually become a lot better than Horticulux. Clearly Horticulux is the best fighter and his retreat = mortal wound ability is deadly when used right. Horti however is forced to stay close to his units thus being vulnerable to snipers. Epidemius can stay safely hidden away from everything nasty if allowed to.

What do you think? I think this one is hard to decide also because I really love to field Horticulux but without his battalion he is not worth it and with the battalion he become even more vulnerable at 380 points. 

[MidasKiss]

Looks awfully similar to the teethy rumour engine post?

[hobgoblinclub]

2 hours ago, MidasKiss said:

Looks awfully similar to the teethy rumour engine post?

Where is this from? 

Is that a tail rather than legs on the GUO? I wonder if he's getting that big a redesign. 

[MidasKiss]

3 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

Where is this from? 

Is that a tail rather than legs on the GUO? I wonder if he's getting that big a redesign. 

Miniwargaming reviewed the new DG codex and put this picture up from the book as they talked about the Beasts of Nurgle!

[shadowgra]

Is the mouth from the RE.

I honestly think is the guo, dunno about the tentacle tho