Let's chat : Maggotkin of Nurgle

[Spiky Norman]

8 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

How do you define "weapon". Spume's ability should be able to affect any melee profile on the warscroll. For instance.. I stopped the disk attacks on some enlightened a few games ago.

Weapon would be anything listed with a weapon profile, be that melee or missle. Or even a dobbeltganger Gutrots Flailing Tentacles :-) (Wouldn't stop the ability Clutching Pseudopods, though)

[hughwyeth]

21 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

Weapon would be anything listed with a weapon profile, be that melee or missle. Or even a dobbeltganger Gutrots Flailing Tentacles :-) (Wouldn't stop the ability Clutching Pseudopods, though)

The rules state

"Choose a weapon carried by that model and roll a dice. On a 4+ that weapon cannot be used by that model in that combat phase."

A weapon carried would suggest it's not any melee entry on the statline, but an identifiable weapon that's not physically contiguous with the character. Having said that I'm happy to be corrected or for GW to clarify this. God knows these types of ambiguous rules writing is everywhere in AoS. 

[sal4m4nd3r]

12 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

The rules state

"Choose a weapon carried by that model and roll a dice. On a 4+ that weapon cannot be used by that model in that combat phase."

A weapon carried would suggest it's not any melee entry on the statline, but an identifiable weapon that's not physically contiguous with the character. Having said that I'm happy to be corrected or for GW to clarify this. God knows these types of ambiguous rules writing is everywhere in AoS. 

You are attempting to read to much into the wording of the rules. So Spumes ability wouldn't be able to stop a chaos spawn from attacking with its freakish mutations? I think your interpretation is a bit over the top.

[annarborhawk]

27 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

The rules state

"Choose a weapon carried by that model and roll a dice. On a 4+ that weapon cannot be used by that model in that combat phase."

A weapon carried would suggest it's not any melee entry on the statline, but an identifiable weapon that's not physically contiguous with the character. Having said that I'm happy to be corrected or for GW to clarify this. God knows these types of ambiguous rules writing is everywhere in AoS. 

I mean the top of warscrolls list the profile entries as "Melee Weapons" and "Missle Weapons" whether the profile is something attached or carried.  "Carried" is not a term defined anywhere in the rules. So I'd say that word doesn't limit the ability.  

[sal4m4nd3r]

How much of a threat is 5 putrid blightkings ambushing with spume as opposed to 10 putrid blightkings with spume? Does it go from serious threat to minor annoyance? Or can 5 blightkings actually make a recognizable mark on the game? Does the smaller footprint become a note worthy advantage? When you run Spume.. do you prefer 5 Blightkings with him or ten?

I am crafting my list for adepticon and one of the major weakness's I found was I had no units that could  be objective sitters. No ranged units (although I have toyed with Ungor Raiders as allies - re-rolling 1s or 2s with 18" range and Blades of Putrefaction does affect them) or defensive chaff that can reliably hold ground. I find 10 maruaders take a couple causalties and run away.. a waste of points.  So I have been working in a 15(14) man unit of Warriors in my plaguetouched warband.

But If I split my ten "man" unit of blightkings that normally go with Spume, that would fulfill my battalion requirements and allow me more flexibility in adding in some demons. Specifically 30 plaguebois and a small unit of drones. 

Thoughts?

[hughwyeth]

3 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

You are attempting to read to much into the wording of the rules. So Spumes ability wouldn't be able to stop a chaos spawn from attacking with its freakish mutations? I think your interpretation is a bit over the top.

 

3 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

I mean the top of warscrolls list the profile entries as "Melee Weapons" and "Missle Weapons" whether the profile is something attached or carried.  "Carried" is not a term defined anywhere in the rules. So I'd say that word doesn't limit the ability.  

I don't really think that's over the top- "What weapons are you carrying?" "My fists." is perhaps what Brad, the bodybuilder, would say at airport security, but doubt it would pass in a game. Rules as intended would seem to be clear to me. I'm not sure "carried" needs to be defined at all as it's pretty clear! There's a load of terms used in AoS that don't need definition. But if GW clarify that it's any melee weapon statline entry, I'd be happy. 

[hughwyeth]

21 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

How much of a threat is 5 putrid blightkings ambushing with spume as opposed to 10 putrid blightkings with spume? Does it go from serious threat to minor annoyance? Or can 5 blightkings actually make a recognizable mark on the game? Does the smaller footprint become a note worthy advantage? When you run Spume.. do you prefer 5 Blightkings with him or ten?

I am crafting my list for adepticon and one of the major weakness's I found was I had no units that could  be objective sitters. No ranged units (although I have toyed with Ungor Raiders as allies - re-rolling 1s or 2s with 18" range and Blades of Putrefaction does affect them) or defensive chaff that can reliably hold ground. I find 10 maruaders take a couple causalties and run away.. a waste of points.  So I have been working in a 15(14) man unit of Warriors in my plaguetouched warband.

But If I split my ten "man" unit of blightkings that normally go with Spume, that would fulfill my battalion requirements and allow me more flexibility in adding in some demons. Specifically 30 plaguebois and a small unit of drones. 

Thoughts?

5 BKs behind enemy lines (and therefore beyond the reach of the harbinger if he's your general) just aren't resilient enough I find. That's why I take 10, they'll just last longer. 

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

How much of a threat is 5 putrid blightkings ambushing with spume as opposed to 10 putrid blightkings with spume? Does it go from serious threat to minor annoyance? Or can 5 blightkings actually make a recognizable mark on the game? Does the smaller footprint become a note worthy advantage? When you run Spume.. do you prefer 5 Blightkings with him or ten?

I am crafting my list for adepticon and one of the major weakness's I found was I had no units that could  be objective sitters. No ranged units (although I have toyed with Ungor Raiders as allies - re-rolling 1s or 2s with 18" range and Blades of Putrefaction does affect them) or defensive chaff that can reliably hold ground. I find 10 maruaders take a couple causalties and run away.. a waste of points.  So I have been working in a 15(14) man unit of Warriors in my plaguetouched warband.

But If I split my ten "man" unit of blightkings that normally go with Spume, that would fulfill my battalion requirements and allow me more flexibility in adding in some demons. Specifically 30 plaguebois and a small unit of drones. 

Thoughts?

I played a game on Saturday where I had a unit of 5 Liberators locked in combat with my opponent's unit of 5 Blightkings for much of the battle.  Ultimately the Blightkings won, but I feel like the trade was more in my favor because of the point differential of the units.   It probably would have lasted all game if my Judicators hadn't popped a couple wounds on the Blightkings and his GUO hadn't puked a couple mortals onto the Libs.  It was an interesting game.  I took a Skyborne Slayers list and dropped out of the sky turn one to burn one of his Scorched Earth objectives and lock 90% of his army in combat.  I was nearly tabled, but the early burn and a few turns of generating 3 VPs to his 2 allowed me to take the win.

[sal4m4nd3r]

37 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I played a game on Saturday where I had a unit of 5 Liberators locked in combat with my opponent's unit of 5 Blightkings for much of the battle.  Ultimately the Blightkings won, but I feel like the trade was more in my favor because of the point differential of the units.   It probably would have lasted all game if my Judicators hadn't popped a couple wounds on the Blightkings and his GUO hadn't puked a couple mortals onto the Libs.  It was an interesting game.  I took a Skyborne Slayers list and dropped out of the sky turn one to burn one of his Scorched Earth objectives and lock 90% of his army in combat.  I was nearly tabled, but the early burn and a few turns of generating 3 VPs to his 2 allowed me to take the win.

Great insight there! Thanks so much for that. I would have thought 5 kings could take down the line no problem. But that's warhammer! Def. gonna stick with ten kings coming in with spume from his poop ship. 

[Poltron]

13 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Great insight there! Thanks so much for that. I would have thought 5 kings could take down the line no problem. But that's warhammer! Def. gonna stick with ten kings coming in with spume from his poop ship. 

From the other side of the coin here, just to scramble the eggs  I take 5, because I find it's otherwise too much of an investment in a drop that may or may not get to see his plan going his way. For me, even at 5, they must be dealt with (+Gutrot of course), it's a 300 points investment already, for what? A flanking unit? At 460 points and no rend, a good opponent would just spread his army and offer you either shaff for a counter charge, or their unit with a lot of saves, or a small footprint so that you can only bring 2-3 in combat anyway.

It's even worst if you start in the 1st round, because you need to drop them on the left or right side (so a predictible drop if the enemy knows what's he doing), and last game I had to drop them behind my line in my own deployment because the terrain, units to charge and within 6" rule couldn't even hold 5 on the side. It was too risky missing a charge against the units I was up against, they would have countercharge and shoot it to death in no time.

I think you would be stronger with 2 of 5, and the plagueboys, or any other unit, maybe even a real unit of 10 to stay instead and you drop the 5.

[Congratz]

Just a quick question

How does your 2k list look like?

How do you hold objectives and how do you deal damage as Nurgle?

Thanks

[hughwyeth]

40 minutes ago, Poltron said:

From the other side of the coin here, just to scramble the eggs  I take 5, because I find it's otherwise too much of an investment in a drop that may or may not get to see his plan going his way. For me, even at 5, they must be dealt with (+Gutrot of course), it's a 300 points investment already, for what? A flanking unit? At 460 points and no rend, a good opponent would just spread his army and offer you either shaff for a counter charge, or their unit with a lot of saves, or a small footprint so that you can only bring 2-3 in combat anyway.

It's even worst if you start in the 1st round, because you need to drop them on the left or right side (so a predictible drop if the enemy knows what's he doing), and last game I had to drop them behind my line in my own deployment because the terrain, units to charge and within 6" rule couldn't even hold 5 on the side. It was too risky missing a charge against the units I was up against, they would have countercharge and shoot it to death in no time.

I think you would be stronger with 2 of 5, and the plagueboys, or any other unit, maybe even a real unit of 10 to stay instead and you drop the 5.

These are good points. Right now I'm running Gutrot +10, but it should be pretty easy to chuck a cheap unit at them and ignore them for much of the game, in some scenarios.

I've found in many scenarios with decent spread of objectives, they're a very good threat to have on the board behind enemy lines. The issue with Nurgle is we're not getting through any unit with any speed because of our poor damage output in combat (Except BKs if there's no minus to hit debuff on them!). So us being able to move plaguebearers 15" doesn't matter much if there's already a unit between us and the objective. The 10BKs forces the enemy lines apart in my experience. 

Having said that, and because of some of your points, I'm not sure I'd run 1x10 over 2x5 in a GT because it might be an easy thing for veteran players to counter. 

[Poltron]

2 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

These are good points. Right now I'm running Gutrot +10, but it should be pretty easy to chuck a cheap unit at them and ignore them for much of the game, in some scenarios.

I've found in many scenarios with decent spread of objectives, they're a very good threat to have on the board behind enemy lines. The issue with Nurgle is we're not getting through any unit with any speed because of our poor damage output in combat (Except BKs if there's no minus to hit debuff on them!). So us being able to move plaguebearers 15" doesn't matter much if there's already a unit between us and the objective. The 10BKs forces the enemy lines apart in my experience. 

Having said that, and because of some of your points, I'm not sure I'd run 1x10 over 2x5 in a GT because it might be an easy thing for veteran players to counter. 

It really depends on the opponent's army and awareness during his deployment. If Gutrot was able to set them up on the turn we wanted, I would take 10 anytime. You wait for them to move up, put them behind and you're golden. But right now because we must set it up after our first movement phase, if you start the round, you may actually shoot yourself in the foot and place them where they'll take a charge instead. I dont want to lose 460 points for that and I prefer, with their +1 to run and +1 to charge, to actually try my luck footslogging them up the battefield.

[Poltron]

18 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Just a quick question

How does your 2k list look like?

How do you hold objectives and how do you deal damage as Nurgle?

Thanks

You can mix and match a lot with Nurgle, but my list looks like this, mainly because I like the models, not because it's a tournament winner:

Glottkin

Great Unclean One

Gutrot Spume

Daemon prince of Nurgle

5x Blightkings

30x plaguebearers

10x marauders of nurgle

6x Drones

 

In this list, the drones are the hammer, with the Prince. Strangely Glottkin survive longer, due to my opponent freaking out with the Prince and focusing all their fire on it.

My damage dealers are my heros and the drones, although if I'm lucky with Blades, plaguebros can do wonder with x2 attacks. With their rend and damage they do the job quite well, and the Guo with blade got +1 to cast to deal d3 to multiple units and heal at the same time.

[Congratz]

5 minutes ago, Poltron said:

You can mix and match a lot with Nurgle, but my list looks like this, mainly because I like the models, not because it's a tournament winner:

Glottkin

Great Unclean One

Gutrot Spume

Daemon prince of Nurgle

5x Blightkings

30x plaguebearers

10x marauders of nurgle

6x Drones

 

In this list, the drones are the hammer, with the Prince. Strangely Glottkin survive longer, due to my opponent freaking out with the Prince and focusing all their fire on it.

My damage dealers are my heros and the drones, although if I'm lucky with Blades, plaguebros can do wonder with x2 attacks. With their rend and damage they do the job quite well, and the Guo with blade got +1 to cast to deal d3 to multiple units and heal at the same time.

Why are the Prince and the drones good? They don't seem that good to me? can you explain ?
 

[hughwyeth]

31 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Just a quick question

How does your 2k list look like?

How do you hold objectives and how do you deal damage as Nurgle?

Thanks

Don't know if this was open to anyone to answer, but here's mine (currently, may change a bit!)

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
- General
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
Sorcerer (120)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Gutrot Spume (140)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (160)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
- Nurgle Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

I'm still toying with which artefact to take. Carrion Dirge looks good for those forces without high bravery, but it'd have to put it on Spume who will be behind enemy lines ideally so may not be too valuable to other units in my force. 

Holding objectives is Plaguebearers. I think they're one of the best units in the game for it. If possible, I'd get the +1 wound spell on them and they're pretty much immovable. I give my opponents double turns sometimes if I have 30 PBs with +1 wound because I don't want to lose it and I know they'll survive. 

I still don't know what I'm really doing with the Daemon Prince and Drones. I haven't had great success with them at all. I'll be trying to keep them near the Glottkin so I can get +2 attacks on them instead of the usual +1 from the Prince. 

Spume + BKs to drop behind/to the side of enemy lines if possible. Had great success with that combo for a few games now. 

[hughwyeth]

1 minute ago, Congratz said:

Why are the Prince and the drones good? They don't seem that good to me? can you explain ?
 

They're pretty resilient and their damage output is pretty good for Nurgle. The daemon prince is a Daemon Hero, so gives them +1 attack to all their melee attacks thanks to their Locus ability. 

[Congratz]

7 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

They're pretty resilient and their damage output is pretty good for Nurgle. The daemon prince is a Daemon Hero, so gives them +1 attack to all their melee attacks thanks to their Locus ability. 

Where can i see the +1 attack?

 

[hughwyeth]

4 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Where can i see the +1 attack?

 

In the plague drone warscroll, right most column- "locus of something something"

[Congratz]

Just now, hughwyeth said:

In the plague drone warscroll, right most column- "locus of something something"

Ahh thank you very much

 

[Congratz]

15 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Don't know if this was open to anyone to answer, but here's mine (currently, may change a bit!)

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
- General
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
Sorcerer (120)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Gutrot Spume (140)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (160)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
- Nurgle Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

I'm still toying with which artefact to take. Carrion Dirge looks good for those forces without high bravery, but it'd have to put it on Spume who will be behind enemy lines ideally so may not be too valuable to other units in my force. 

Holding objectives is Plaguebearers. I think they're one of the best units in the game for it. If possible, I'd get the +1 wound spell on them and they're pretty much immovable. I give my opponents double turns sometimes if I have 30 PBs with +1 wound because I don't want to lose it and I know they'll survive. 

I still don't know what I'm really doing with the Daemon Prince and Drones. I haven't had great success with them at all. I'll be trying to keep them near the Glottkin so I can get +2 attacks on them instead of the usual +1 from the Prince. 

Spume + BKs to drop behind/to the side of enemy lines if possible. Had great success with that combo for a few games now. 

Hmm i like the list
But i must ask again why drones and Prince, are drones really what good?

[Congratz]

Ohhh and again what would a compititve 1k list look like?

[Poltron]

7 minutes ago, Congratz said:

But i must ask again why drones and Prince, are drones really what good?

Drones are the hammer in that list, with +1 attack from their Loci (this one counts for shooting too, even if it's meh), and +1 attack from the Glottkin, to each of their weapon profile.

So their sting are now 3 attacks each, meaning you get a lot of piercing attack for 200 points, and the rest is just icing on the cake. The demon is just there to follow them and activate the loci, and he can deal a lot of damage himself if left alone.

[hughwyeth]

6 minutes ago, Poltron said:

Drones are the hammer in that list, with +1 attack from their Loci (this one counts for shooting too, even if it's meh), and +1 attack from the Glottkin, to each of their weapon profile.

So their sting are now 3 attacks each, meaning you get a lot of piercing attack for 200 points, and the rest is just icing on the cake. The demon is just there to follow them and activate the loci, and he can deal a lot of damage himself if left alone.

As an additional thing for Daemon Prince, if you take the axe, he gives some much needed rend to Nurgle. -2 rend is the same as the GUO with the sword and isn't available anywhere else for Nurgle (I think?). Problem is he's got 4 attacks, which after 4+/3+ hit/wound means you'd get about 1 attack through in the end. Again, keeping him near Glottkin helps a bit too. 

[Binabik15]

So, my Gutrot's Reavers force is almost built to 2000 points. Not neccessarily a great list and missing a few bespoke conversions to not borrow from my other stuff, but most will have to wait until the ship scenery releases.

 

Just one quick question: Is the ally chart forbidding Monsters of Chaos allies correct (don't have my book here). So no chaos hound packs or blighted valkyries using Harpies rules for the Viking half of my army? Bummer.

 

Now for my main concern.

 

With the Reavers mostly built (and, let's be honest, never painted ?) I'm thinking about the next force that'll be part of my overall Nurgle horde: The Knightly Order of the Fly. The idea intrigues me a great deal, so much that I bought the Plague Garden book after reading a wiki entry about them. The book however portays the knights as way more elite than mere Blight Kings, though, but Chaos Knights are not nearly blessed with as many wounds. A small pack of foot knights is almost a must, though. Varanguard Knights are tougher and more expensive, but allies.

 

So I started thinking and I see two main options:

A) Varanguard rules for three proper knights, together with the hero choices that'd make a handful of "real" knights on horse. Use my Chaos Knights as mounted sergeants, hedge knights, squires and errant knights. Knights on foot use Blight Kings rules, Chaos Warriors are again representing mere mercs and sarges in plate. Regular shieldbearers, guards and levvies as marauders.

That would make all the true Order Knights elite monstrous fighters or heroes and represent a late medieval force were only a few of the armoured horse were landed knight. 

 

B) Use the Varanguard to represent the three monstrous knights I want to build, including a giant on Stonehorn-turned-mammoth (a knight giant is something I wanted to convert from the FW mammoth since it's release, but back then I couldn't afford it) and a Bestigor knight on a bull. Now all other knights would have to use Chaos Knights rules and feel a lot less spectacular.

 

Yeah. Ideas? If I could at least palm the Stonehorn knight of to some other warscroll A) might be my preferred way. But I want that big fellow.

Overall list building for the knights is tough.

I want stuff like mounted marauders to represent outriders and unarmoured squires, BKs, CWs, Knights, marauder levies, Ungor Raiders for bowmen but I can't fit it all in with heroes on top! And I have an existing contigent of 10 knightly plaguebearers, a PB on fly with two "hounting hound" flies and a hero Nurgling with sword and shield finished already. They're the whole reason I looked up Knights of Nurgle and led me down this path, I *have* to use them.

Even if I use the Lady of Cankerwell/generic sorceress  I want to build (dark pegasus or blighted unicorn, btw, what'd be a cooler mount) as a Harbinger and not as a Sorc Lord on horse, dropping the original Harbinger model I'm at more than 2000! Without catapults or a dead knight reliquiary warshrine!

 

Help! Of course the list(s) will have to wait until the overall concept is done, i.e. rules for the knights, but any inout is helpful! I found one list for a knights heavy force in a review for Maggotkin, but that's it. It's more for fun and building towards a goal, but a decent list is never a bad thing when you invest time.