Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[Dez]

48 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Hi guys, I'm planning on coming back to warhammer after at least 16 years out. I've always checked in from time to time to see what's going on in the world but only now with AoS have I decided to pick up the brush again.

Its the Overlords who have sold it to me. The first time I saw them I actually hated them but the more I read about them the more I started to fall in love. I toyed with the ideas of Death because there's a variety of different models to paint, or Vanguard SC but its just got to be Kharadron.

I'm thinking a group who take on Monster Hunting contracts to make ends meet. I could put some extra details onto my boats like nets draped over the sides and monster head trophies.

I'd imagine it would be more about Thunderers, Wardens and Gunhaulers which seem to be very rarely used. Has anyone had good experiences with Gunhaulers or know of ways to get the best out of them?

winning isn't important to me really, an army that stands out from the crowd and fits a theme is what I'd be after. I've never been one to go the most optimal route.

I was smiling the whole time I read this, I'd L O V E to see this army come to light! It would have to have tons of Harpoons/Grapnels, think about adding a Moby ****** vibe to things too.

I have to finish my Pirate/Booze themed KO!

[Bimli]

On 13/12/2017 at 9:47 AM, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Ahoy!  I'm making my first real post here! 

I do find Frigates a bit overpriced, but I'm pretty happy with their overall performance when I take them.   They don't dish out that much damage but they can certainly take it.  It's their transport capacity, movement range and the assistance with deployment that makes them useful.  

If I could make a suggestion, if the Frigate (and indeed the Ironclad) had their Transport Capacity increased by 5 I'd be completely happy with them.  With that, an Ironclad could actually carry a full sized Arkanauht Company.

Oh, and Skywardens should be Battleline troops.  Even if it means bumping their price back up to 120pts.  Right now, they simply cannot compete with Endrinriggers at all.  They've sadly disappeared from all Overlord lists I've seen.  Making them battleline would give them a realpurpose, and help us out a little bit overall.  Right now, we suffer in smaller games because a lot of our stuff is pretty expensive.  We are forced to take Arkanauht Companies because they're our only battleline unit.  And personally, I find that Companies require a ship to reach their full potential.   And that gets expensive pretty quickly.  400pts for a small company and a frigate verses 200-240pts for a unit of 6 skywardens?  In a smaller game I'd take the latter.

I feel like every army should have at least two battle line units anyway.

wardens are really good 100 points get me a drillcannon and a volly gun i run a 12 man warden unit and they decimate what evere they shoot at and are kept safe due to mobility and range. also they are 20points cheapet than riggers

[ArkanautDadmiral]

12 hours ago, Dez said:

I was smiling the whole time I read this, I'd L O V E to see this army come to light! It would have to have tons of Harpoons/Grapnels, think about adding a Moby ****** vibe to things too.

I have to finish my Pirate/Booze themed KO!

Exactly. My only real issue at the moment is how to distinguish the heroes a bit. I think the idea of a navigator that is adebt a tracking beasts is simple enough. But it's the other characters I'd struggle to make fit. Not necessarily the Admiral but the chemist and endrinmaster especially.

12 hours ago, Nico said:

The conversion and hobby opportunities are pretty immense with KO. You could even go long with Adeptus Mechanicus bits as @Age of The Erstwood has done so well with his Clan Skryre.  @Thomas Lyons has nailed the Fyreslayer-KO fusion models. Even yesterday I saw a Clan Skryre Ironclad. I still want my Squig Zeppelins (the Squig providing buoyancy naturally).

Thanks for this I'll try to hunt down some pictures of their models.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

Has anyone used Gunhauler's then? I don't think i've seen them in anyones list since lurking on here. Is there anything they ARE good at? Is it just a case of their points being a bit too expensive? Do we expect to see their rules change a bit with this in mind considering they're rarely taken?

I'd love to hear from people who have positive things to say about them.

[stato]

49 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Exactly. My only real issue at the moment is how to distinguish the heroes a bit. I think the idea of a navigator that is adebt a tracking beasts is simple enough. But it's the other characters I'd struggle to make fit. Not necessarily the Admiral but the chemist and endrinmaster especially.

Khemists fluff is they sniff out the Aether-gold which is what a lot of the great sky beasts feed on, so you could give them sets of flaying knives or aparatus to extract the Aether-gold from the beasts bodies. Endrinmaster is the one who supplies the weapons so i guess doesnt fit into the hunting party as a hunter, but you dont need them all so id not worry about that.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

23 minutes ago, stato said:

Khemists fluff is they sniff out the Aether-gold which is what a lot of the great sky beasts feed on, so you could give them sets of flaying knives or aparatus to extract the Aether-gold from the beasts bodies. Endrinmaster is the one who supplies the weapons so i guess doesnt fit into the hunting party as a hunter, but you dont need them all so id not worry about that.

That's kind of the deal i thought the Navigator would have in tracking them down to be honest. I'll re read everything and see what i can come up with. I'd definitely want to convert his anatomiser in some way though, especially if i have more than one of them, and he seems to be the must have choice hero.

[stato]

1 hour ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

That's kind of the deal i thought the Navigator would have in tracking them down to be honest. I'll re read everything and see what i can come up with. I'd definitely want to convert his anatomiser in some way though, especially if i have more than one of them, and he seems to be the must have choice hero.

Khemists are for the Aether-gold, Navigators are navigators of the skies and storms.

Quote

Khemists - The armour of these specialists incorporates an array of high-tech tools, including quadbreather apparatus that allows them to sniff out aether-gold hidden within thick cloud  banks
Aetheric Navigators - are aero-cartographers, atmospheric map-makers that help chart courses, fnd currents and steer along perilous trade routes.

Maybe the navigators also track the beasts but it is said the beasts congragate where the Aether-gold is, so makes sense they are most hated by the Khemists in my head.  There is a novel out now about the Kharadrons so i expect there will be something in there about it too.

[ArkanautDadmiral]

29 minutes ago, stato said:

Khemists are for the Aether-gold, Navigators are navigators of the skies and storms.

Maybe the navigators also track the beasts but it is said the beasts congragate where the Aether-gold is, so makes sense they are most hated by the Khemists in my head.  There is a novel out now about the Kharadrons so i expect there will be something in there about it too.

I read Overlords of The Iron Dragon actually, which was great, there wasn't much about the Navigator in it really from what i remember, and the Khemist was mostly just obsessed with being the first to mine a special strain of aether gold. 

It sets up the possibility of a sequel based on hunting a monster called Ghezal (i think) and the only 2 characters who really seemed driven by Ghezal were the Captain Brokrin and another Duardin called Arrik (though i can't remember if he was an Arkanaut or a Thunderer or something else entirely). 

I'm probably just over thinking the heroes to be honest but you're probably right in that a Khemist might be one of the best placed in tracking their quarry. There's probably place for each of the heroes to be honest, even the Endrinmaster, someone needs to make sure those massive Sky Hooks are up to the task. The interesting part will be the conversions to help symbolise that monster hunting contracts are their bread and butter.

I did think about going with a snowy setting and trying to green stuff some fur into the cuffs and collars etc but i'd need to do a bit of practicing first to get it right.

[FractalRain]

1 hour ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I read Overlords of The Iron Dragon actually, which was great, there wasn't much about the Navigator in it really from what i remember, and the Khemist was mostly just obsessed with being the first to mine a special strain of aether gold. 

It sets up the possibility of a sequel based on hunting a monster called Ghezal (i think) and the only 2 characters who really seemed driven by Ghezal were the Captain Brokrin and another Duardin called Arrik (though i can't remember if he was an Arkanaut or a Thunderer or something else entirely). 

I'm probably just over thinking the heroes to be honest but you're probably right in that a Khemist might be one of the best placed in tracking their quarry. There's probably place for each of the heroes to be honest, even the Endrinmaster, someone needs to make sure those massive Sky Hooks are up to the task. The interesting part will be the conversions to help symbolise that monster hunting contracts are their bread and butter.

I did think about going with a snowy setting and trying to green stuff some fur into the cuffs and collars etc but i'd need to do a bit of practicing first to get it right.

Yes, I was going to recommend this for you as it fits into your theme!  Honestly, if you are going with a monster hunting theme, the Admiral and Arknaughts all fit well, as they get bonuses vs heroes and monsters.  You could even distinguish different Arknaught units by the trophies they wear - maybe one has scales from chimera and another wears horns/teeth from another beast.  I don't think you need to go overboard with the conversions on the characters (as I am also struggling with how to add flavor to them), but maybe just add little bits of character - like maybe trophies, animal skins, or monster face worn over the helmet etc.  Hanging trophies and nets on the ships is a great idea too!

I do think the Navigator could be the tracker - lots of optical devices to help see things and it has the ability to unbind, so can see/sense magic to a degree to track magical beasts.

And Arrik was the gunner on the Ironclad - so technical Ironclad crew.  

[ArkanautDadmiral]

11 minutes ago, FractalRain said:

Yes, I was going to recommend this for you as it fits into your theme!  Honestly, if you are going with a monster hunting theme, the Admiral and Arknaughts all fit well, as they get bonuses vs heroes and monsters.  You could even distinguish different Arknaught units by the trophies they wear - maybe one has scales from chimera and another wears horns/teeth from another beast.  I don't think you need to go overboard with the conversions on the characters (as I am also struggling with how to add flavor to them), but maybe just add little bits of character - like maybe trophies, animal skins, or monster face worn over the helmet etc.  Hanging trophies and nets on the ships is a great idea too!

I do think the Navigator could be the tracker - lots of optical devices to help see things and it has the ability to unbind, so can see/sense magic to a degree to track magical beasts.

And Arrik was the gunner on the Ironclad - so technical Ironclad crew.  

Oh i definitely think subtlety would be the way to go, not least because i just don't have the skill to do anything too impressive.

Thanks for the clarification on Arrik, i couldn't remember for the life of me what his role was. Hopefully a sequel does emerge from it, i love that Brokrin is mentioned a couple of times in Spear Of Shadows as Captain Brondt's rival of sorts, a nice touch.

[FractalRain]

9 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Thanks for the clarification on Arrik, i couldn't remember for the life of me what his role was. Hopefully a sequel does emerge from it, i love that Brokrin is mentioned a couple of times in Spear Of Shadows as Captain Brondt's rival of sorts, a nice touch.

Whoa, I totally missed that!  Thanks for pointing that out, as I read a couple other books between the Spear of Shadows and Overlords of the Iron Dragon.  

[WatcherintheWater]

Hey All,

What sort of Dispossessed/Ironweld allies do you think fit in best with Overlords? I have 1600 of Overlords ready to go and a bunch of old dwarfs that I'd like to combine into a 2K list. The overlords are 2 Khemists, an Endrinmaster, 3x Arkanauts, a Frigate, and some Endrinriggers and Skywardens. So that gives me about 400 left for allies until I finish some more overlords. I was thinking one of these

• Cannon, Organ Gun, Engineer
• 40 Warriors + Runelord or Unforged
• 20 Ironbreakers + Runelord
• 30 Thunderers

Feels like a big unit of infintry would be pretty useful.

[Dez]

I think I'd go Warriors and Runelord. They will make a great screen and are really sturdy.

[stratigo]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:52 AM, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Thanks for the welcome. 

For a compromise, only the Ironclad could have its transport capacity increased.  So it can now carry a full sized Arkanauht Company, but Frigates are still just small unit transports.  If Skywardens became battleline then the Frigates wouldn't really need a points decrease or a transport capacity increase.

I thought about that too.  It might make ordinary Arkanauhts a bit redundant though.  Skywardens are like a cavalry unit and so are different enough not to step on their toes.  Well, not too much at any rate. 

What's the opinions on the Skyports?  Barrak Mhornar is the best obviously.  Barak Urbaz and Barak Zilfin are probably a joint close second and Barak Thryng is pretty good too.  Barak Zon is probably the worst.  What about Barak Nar?

Also, is just me or is it not worth making up your own skyport?   The named ones have custom ports completely beat, with two footnotes (one unique), unique artifacts and command traits, and special abilities on top of these to boot.

 

Barak Zilfin is the best in regards to most competitive followed by urbaz and then mhorner. Movement shenanigans is super strong in Sigmar and Zilfin is shenanigans the skyport. Urbaz does the khemist everywhere, which is slightly more efficient in my mind than mhornar's trick. Both urbaz and mhorner reward larger battlelines of arkanauts, while zilfin dictates a ship heavy, balloon heavy build.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

5 hours ago, stratigo said:

Barak Zilfin is the best in regards to most competitive followed by urbaz and then mhorner. Movement shenanigans is super strong in Sigmar and Zilfin is shenanigans the skyport. Urbaz does the khemist everywhere, which is slightly more efficient in my mind than mhornar's trick. Both urbaz and mhorner reward larger battlelines of arkanauts, while zilfin dictates a ship heavy, balloon heavy build.

They definitely have the best footnote and the best endrinwork.  Plus, depending on who you're fighting, old fashioned preferred enemy on fliers is pretty powerful.  Especially with our shooting.

I was thinking how to help Barak Zon but my idea is way too o.p!  I dare not even say it!  

[Drofnum]

How do you guys deal with Stardrakes?  I've been playing a firestorm campaign and one of the other guys is playing Stormcast with a stardrake with mirrorshield and all that.

I did kill it last game but it was basically after it wiped out 75% of my army by itself, I did roll awful on my Riggers and was 300 points down to start the game so I was at a disadvantage from the start.  Not sure the best way to deal with it though, other than hope my riggers can put some hurt on it and maybe finish it off with There's No trading With Some People or a little shooting.

[Aezeal]

27 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

How do you guys deal with Stardrakes?  I've been playing a firestorm campaign and one of the other guys is playing Stormcast with a stardrake with mirrorshield and all that.

I did kill it last game but it was basically after it wiped out 75% of my army by itself, I did roll awful on my Riggers and was 300 points down to start the game so I was at a disadvantage from the start.  Not sure the best way to deal with it though, other than hope my riggers can put some hurt on it and maybe finish it off with There's No trading With Some People or a little shooting.

Tie it up with allied chaff

[Drofnum]

3 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Tie it up with allied chaff

Trying to do it with my potential tourney list so I dont want to add in stuff just for that one specific game.  I am thinking about including some Fulminators as allies though and those may do alright with some mortal wounds + charge bonuses.

[Aezeal]

Just now, Drofnum said:

Trying to do it with my potential tourney list so I dont want to add in stuff just for that one specific game.  I am thinking about including some Fulminators as allies though and those may do alright with some mortal wounds + charge bonuses.

Trying to kill it with high end melee allies is not what I said though :D, chaff is usually useful anyway.

[Drofnum]

Just now, Aezeal said:

Trying to kill it with high end melee allies is not what I said though :D, chaff is usually useful anyway.

Chaff just isnt really in the cards, dont have the models and it doesnt really help me with the way I have my list set up.  

I'm also not really sure there is sufficiently cheap chaff to really stop it for more than a round or so.  It easily went through 6 riggers and 10 company in a round of shooting/combat, which is 22 wounds. Cheap chaff is one area the Stardrake shines in, it will eat 3 models straight off, breath will get a decent amount of damage out and its combat ability isnt awful against low save models either. 

 

Against a unit of 20 models the breath will do 3 MW's, the bow will generally get 1 wound, the hammer another 3 damage, and the drakes claws another 2.  Those are rough averages against a 5+ save, a total of 9 wounds, plus another 3 models eaten.  Battleshock will see most of the rest gone, Bravery of 6 which is pretty common would lose another 7 models minimum so 19/20 models gone just to the drake alone.  I dont really see chaff doing much other than holding it off a round.  

If you put it up against the Fulminators instead they will take a total of about 3 damage, with a 1/6 chance of being eaten.  If they get the charge off they actually have a chance of killing it with melee as well. I think there are probably some other decent options out there but I dont think chaff will accomplish enough to make them worth the points cost.

[Aezeal]

1 minute ago, Drofnum said:

Chaff just isnt really in the cards, dont have the models and it doesnt really help me with the way I have my list set up.  

I'm also not really sure there is sufficiently cheap chaff to really stop it for more than a round or so.  It easily went through 6 riggers and 10 company in a round of shooting/combat, which is 22 wounds. Cheap chaff is one area the Stardrake shines in, it will eat 3 models straight off, breath will get a decent amount of damage out and its combat ability isnt awful against low save models either. 

 

Against a unit of 20 models the breath will do 3 MW's, the bow will generally get 1 wound, the hammer another 3 damage, and the drakes claws another 2.  Those are rough averages against a 5+ save, a total of 9 wounds, plus another 3 models eaten.  Battleshock will see most of the rest gone, Bravery of 6 which is pretty common would lose another 7 models minimum so 19/20 models gone just to the drake alone.  I dont really see chaff doing much other than holding it off a round.  

If you put it up against the Fulminators instead they will take a total of about 3 damage, with a 1/6 chance of being eaten.  If they get the charge off they actually have a chance of killing it with melee as well. I think there are probably some other decent options out there but I dont think chaff will accomplish enough to make them worth the points cost.

Not sure how all that makes it better against a few single model units of gryphhounds, but if that doesn't fit in your army than try something else.

[Drofnum]

1 minute ago, Aezeal said:

Not sure how all that makes it better against a few single model units of gryphhounds, but if that doesn't fit in your army than try something else.

"Try something else" is the reason for the post here, to get ideas and discuss the merits of each, no? 

That was simply an explanation for why i dont think chaff is the solution, it isnt to say i'm not open to any other ideas and single model units of gryph hounds is an interesting idea.  You can get 6 for the same cost as either of the units i mentioned, if they are spaced out enough that he couldnt eat 2-3 of them a round they could serve as a decent road block but the spacing would probably be key there as otherwise he could just eat half the hounds in one go.

[Naflem]

20 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

Chaff just isnt really in the cards, dont have the models and it doesnt really help me with the way I have my list set up.  

I'm also not really sure there is sufficiently cheap chaff to really stop it for more than a round or so.  It easily went through 6 riggers and 10 company in a round of shooting/combat, which is 22 wounds. Cheap chaff is one area the Stardrake shines in, it will eat 3 models straight off, breath will get a decent amount of damage out and its combat ability isnt awful against low save models either. 

 

Against a unit of 20 models the breath will do 3 MW's, the bow will generally get 1 wound, the hammer another 3 damage, and the drakes claws another 2.  Those are rough averages against a 5+ save, a total of 9 wounds, plus another 3 models eaten.  Battleshock will see most of the rest gone, Bravery of 6 which is pretty common would lose another 7 models minimum so 19/20 models gone just to the drake alone.  I dont really see chaff doing much other than holding it off a round.  

If you put it up against the Fulminators instead they will take a total of about 3 damage, with a 1/6 chance of being eaten.  If they get the charge off they actually have a chance of killing it with melee as well. I think there are probably some other decent options out there but I dont think chaff will accomplish enough to make them worth the points cost.

Yah, Chaff plus Inspiring Presence prolly.

I havn't run the numbers like you have but in my experience they're woefully sad at killing 40 Plague Monks with inspiring presence.   That swallow attack feels pretty wasted on a few sick rats

[stratigo]

Buffed endrinriggers should be able to see it off

[FractalRain]

Would you mind explaining how Mirrorshield works?  I'm not familiar with it, but have a guess how it might work.  Then I can try to offer some advice!