Zahaladune Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 13 hours ago, Eshun said: Think of picking up some thunderers 20 Aethershot rifles for khemist buff efficiency Or 4 mortars 1 Aethershot captain 4 cannons 1 Aethershot captain 4 fumigators 1 Aethershot captain 5 rifles What do you guys think? You could do 20 mortars with khemist in the backfield, or 10-20 cannons in a ship with a khemist to drop and then slaughter; especially with Mhornar command trait. These are the tournament level groupings, and would not be so fun and friendly in casual play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Alrighty folks, here is my 2000pt list idea. There's nothing ground breaking, and nothing too cheese. This is meant to be competitive, while not being a mono-culture or pure tournament machine. *Mhornar code* --Leaders-- Khemist (Leader: Oppertunistic Privateers) Khemist w/Earburst Endrineer --Battleline-- 10x3 Arkanaut w/Skyhook --Behemoth-- Ironclad w/Cannon and Healing Hull Frigate w/Cannon --Other-- 6x Endrinriggers w/1-grapnel 3x Endrinrigger 10x Thunderers w/Cannons The leader khemist, 3x endriggers and thunderers go in the frigate and play as assassins with their 20 re-rollable cannon shots. 2 of the ark companies go in the Ironclad with the earburst khemist and endrineer to cap objectives and also do some unit clearing; 6x endriggers attach and go along for a melee stomp. The remaining ark company sit on a homefield objective and sling 24" hooks at anyone nearby. Thoughts? Zilfin would give me a better alpha strike with the thunderers, but they would lose the reroll which I feel is key for confirmed kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 If you are going grapnel, I recommend going up to 9 Endrinriggers and taking 3 Grapnels to guarantee it works. Otherwise you are better off with a saw instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Ya, after writing this list I started to second guess whether or not I needed to at least double down on the grapnels for insurance. Could drop the Endrineer for the extra Riggers, but I'll have to play around with this to see what works best; and buy a Frigate, Thunderers and Khemist X ). Thanks for suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid_Nine Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 honestly? the grapnels seem superfluous compared to raw damage output. this is AoS after all, and aside from a few select lists the armies are going to be running at you at very high velocities. Still, I like the list and that is the general idea I had for that point value too (aside from a few changes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said: honestly? the grapnels seem superfluous compared to raw damage output. this is AoS after all, and aside from a few select lists the armies are going to be running at you at very high velocities. Still, I like the list and that is the general idea I had for that point value too (aside from a few changes) For raw damage, you are correct. For completing objectives in scenarios, they were crucial in my second game. I was able to jump over to help my team mate's Thunderers and protect one of our objectives by finishing off a unit of Grail Knights with shooting. I then used the Grappling hook to move 24" and then assault and murder a unit of Mournfang threatening my own Arkanauts guarding an objective. Next turn, I went the rest of the way across the board to my opponents far corner via 12" move, Grapnel hooks for 24" and then assault to take their corner objective. Without those Grapnel Launchers, we would have been charged by multiple units... and my Arkanauts were already in combat with a Gorger, Icebrow Hunter and a Frostlord Thundertusk that was about to charge in too. That would have potentially lost us our objectives. That's not taking into consideration that they then went and captured a third objective and were on to the fourth when our opponents conceded. Without the Grapnel Launchers, we would have never been able to capture the objectives because the KO are super slow. So while pure damage output is certainly something to consider, mobility is also key....perhaps even the most important consideration. Endrinriggers and Thunderers with Mortars are the new Skyfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I agree with both of you. You don't want to hamstring your actual hitting power to the point where you are no longer getting the job done, but I have too much experience with my SCE Prosecutors grabbing those late game objectives and turning the points tide. I will be taking the grapnel launchers, but probably only two in a group of 6, and if that ends up failing me too much I'll add the third. I think organizing your units into near mono-task groupings is best with these guys, but I specifically took the grapnel to allow for more crazy movement shenanigans to help with scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvanic Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 What are people's thoughts on Khemist buff stacking? To me it seems like it was written explicitly so it does stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, Solvanic said: What are people's thoughts on Khemist buff stacking? To me it seems like it was written explicitly so it does stack. It's gonna get lumped together with a general "Rule of 1" type of thing for same buff stacking come GHB2 later this year; mark my words ; ). It's way too OP to stick around, imagine Mortar squads with 4+ Khemist buffs and things go way out of wack. This is the general web community opinion as far as I have found, but we don't have any confirmation yet. I'm not gonna invest money that direction for this very reason, but 4+ Khemists is good for any non-cheese broken army anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshun Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Yes but you get 5 rifles and 1 of each special in a kit would have to throw down £400 for 20 mortars. Not too skilled at conversions and I think the captain is always worth rocking a rifle for the 4 shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 So if the Khemist buff is reduced to 1 per unit, I wonder how a unit of 20 Thunderers with Rifles would be jumping out of an Ironclad vs a unit of Aethercannons. PS my math is not terribly accurate but in the general ballpark 20 shots 12" range 4+ 2+ -2 d3 62 shots 18" range 3+ 4+ -1 1 Aethercannon: 10 hit 8 wound. 16 damage if there is a 5-6 save, 14 for a 4+ save Aether rifles: 40 hit 20 wound. 17 damage for 6+, 13 Damage for a 5+, 10 Damage for a 4+ Again, I'm doing the most basic of math at a glance. Aethercannons are better vs higher armor, but rifles have the better range and better at removing lower save infantry. Personally I'd probably just go with Arkanaut Company and more Endrinriggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Quote 20 shots 12" range 4+ 2+ -2 d3 That 12" range is a real problem unless they are a melee army that moves into range before your hero phase when you dump them out of the Ironclad or unless you're playing Ziflin. Even if you are, chaff walls can still keep their tasty targets out of 12" range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Nico said: That 12" range is a real problem unless they are a melee army that moves into range before your hero phase when you dump them out of the Ironclad or unless you're playing Ziflin. Even if you are, chaff walls can still keep their tasty targets out of 12" range. That's exactly why I'm not so keen on the Aethercannon myself. I'd rather stick with Mortars on the back line somewhere and have 20 Arkanaut Company with Skyhooks popping out of boats to claim objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Solvanic said: What are people's thoughts on Khemist buff stacking? To me it seems like it was written explicitly so it does stack. I think it does stack. I also think (think as in mathhammering, since I don't play this army) it's OP in comparison to most other buffs especially for something that doesn't even have to be cast,cannot be unbind and on a cheap hero (hurricanum at least is way more expensive). Now the single buff while powerfull (and I think the Khemist needs a points increase anyway) might be needed in the army..however the stacking really really is too much IMHO. But yes..RAW it's stackable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 It's definitely stackable. What people are considering is, for how long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester1487 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I'm gonna have to get another box of company it seems. Probably will bolster my skyhooks. Its too bad the volley guns aren't 4s and 4s for their profile. I just want to spin them up and fire aimlessly into the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Yeah they Volley Guns are very underwhelming, which is too bad because they look so cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naflem Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 What does everyone think about Drill Cannons on Enginriggers. I modeled one in my path to glory army as I'm in a two person campaign with it against a fellah running Stormcast with cheesy staunch defender/lantern buffs and that -3 rend looked really exciting.. and it's done some things, but it doesn't seem to just mesh very well with my other two saw and rivet gun armed riggers... Maybe with a differently configured unit it would be better? Or maybe that is more the role of a sky warden or something... Any thoughts about this or the other weapon selection for our balloon boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 In small units up to 6, just take saws. Team them up with some Arkanaut Company or Thunderers if you want to bring the rend. I just don't find that one shot hitting on 4's to be worth it. I hope you don't mind, but here is how I feel about Endrinriggers as copied from above (in short I think units of 9 with 3 Grapnels is best) Quote For raw damage, you are correct. For completing objectives in scenarios, they were crucial in my second game. I was able to jump over to help my team mate's Thunderers and protect one of our objectives by finishing off a unit of Grail Knights with shooting. I then used the Grappling hook to move 24" and then assault and murder a unit of Mournfang threatening my own Arkanauts guarding an objective. Next turn, I went the rest of the way across the board to my opponents far corner via 12" move, Grapnel hooks for 24" and then assault to take their corner objective. Without those Grapnel Launchers, we would have been charged by multiple units... and my Arkanauts were already in combat with a Gorger, Icebrow Hunter and a Frostlord Thundertusk that was about to charge in too. That would have potentially lost us our objectives. That's not taking into consideration that they then went and captured a third objective and were on to the fourth when our opponents conceded. Without the Grapnel Launchers, we would have never been able to capture the objectives because the KO are super slow. So while pure damage output is certainly something to consider, mobility is also key....perhaps even the most important consideration. Endrinriggers and Thunderers with Mortars are the new Skyfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 13 hours ago, Eshun said: Yes but you get 5 rifles and 1 of each special in a kit would have to throw down £400 for 20 mortars. Not too skilled at conversions and I think the captain is always worth rocking a rifle for the 4 shots Well man, or woman, you got some skills to build and a new part of the hobby to focus on then; or spend that $518.9. If you use parts from other duardin/dwarf armies you could easily skip past any real conversions and just simply glue some different arms onto your thunderers. That's just the nature of the game when it comes to GW games, they never give enough parts to really cover all possible options of a unit; I imagine your already very aware of this. As for the unit leader, I think you are right in giving him the rifle regardless, since that would be a potential 4 wounds instead of d3, hadn't thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 For any friendly game I really wouldn't have any issue for my opponent to use proxies for the weapons. Using All cannons but biult with rifles? No problem for me! also I built my first five thunderes with one of each weapon... because they all look good by their own right. I also only plan on friendly games and have no desire to buy and paint 10 identical models that being said I think using the organ gun barrels are a neat and cheapish way to convert/bash some cannon and the spare mortar shell at least can be glued to a rifle if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Joakim said: ... and the spare mortar shell at least can be glued to a rifle if need be. Ooooo, I just found my conversion idea. Use mortar shells or something similar to create rifle grenades in lieu of mortar parts; the second barrel on the aether rifle works well for this. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I've been working on my cannon/mortar like the following. Drilled out the gun barrel and can plug in the mortar shell to mark them as mortars vs cannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 Now we're talking! I really like those, IG Grenade Launchers I'd recently gotten a bunch out to consider and now I'm sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sactownbri Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Everyone keeps talking about this weapon or that on the Thunderers. I figured people would like to see the statistics of how each weapon performs.So if I look at just average rolls across the spectrum, that is middle for shots and middle on damage, and plot out the statistics against likely saves it is interesting. This is 10 Thunderers plus the buff of a single Khemist. Highlights in shots are the variable weapons. What I found surprising was just how meh the mortars are. Gun butts are garbage so ALWAYS scoot out of combat. Here is what it looks like graphed.Cannons are best but can be unreliable due to the damage roll. Rifles are the most dependable weapons, having the flattest damage curve. On hot rolls the deck gun and the fumigators are the best. Mortars have their range going for them.There you have it, take it for what you will.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.