Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[WABBIT]

Just now, Yeled said:

It looks good except, technically, the waywatchers may break your Wanderer allegiance since they don't count as Wanderers or as an allied unit, either. If the group you're playing with let's you use the old warscroll for waywatchers you should be fine. If not, consider turning the waywatchers into a waywatcher lord. He's 20 pts more, gets as many shots as the 3x waywatchers, hits better, and has more wounds. So really it's an upgrade.

The other thing you might try is turning 10 of the Sisters of the Watch into 20 glade guard or 10 more glade guard and 10 more Eternal guard for your second unit. GG get that boost when they are up above 20 models so having larger units of them is better, and EG need to survive being hit (and can attack from the second row), so again large units are good. Even so, I might try it as you have it and see how it goes.

Actually the old war scroll is 5 Waywatchers and it has the wanderer keyword so it's better than GHB2016. Remember the FAQ says you can use the old war scrolls if you wish and pay the new points so Waywatchers got a lot better  If your opponents don't want to face a decent wanderer army they may refuse to allow you to play old scrolls but that's poor play by them if they do. Compendium armies need all the help they can get vs anything new.

[Tidings]

Just now, WABBIT said:

Actually the old war scroll is 5 Waywatchers and it has the wanderer keyword so it's better than GHB2016. Remember the FAQ says you can use the old war scrolls if you wish and pay the new points so Waywatchers got a lot better  If your opponents don't want to face a decent wanderer army they may refuse to allow you to play old scrolls but that's poor play by them if they do. Compendium armies need all the help they can get vs anything new.

Except new Waywatchers technically don't have points anymore, so you can't play them in Matched play, unless your opponent is cool with the old points applying to a unit of 5x instead of 3x. In a tourny you can't even use them in mixed order - they just don't exist outside open play anymore. 

[Tidings]

37 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Ok so I've made this army to have some fun, also as I got majority of minis all I need to buy are Wild Riders any thoughts 

 

Waystone Pathfinders Battalion 

Nomad Prince + Stalker of the Hidden Paths + Viridescent Shawl 

Spellweaver + Heartwood Staff + Forget-me-knot 

3xWaywatcher 

20 Eternal Guards 

10 Eternal Guards

20 Glade Guards 

20 Sisters of the Watch 

5 Sisters of the thorn 

5 Wild Riders 

1980. 

 

I guess it looks like a ton of fun 

If you want to run a list like this, then you'll have to play it a bit differently than what I've been trying so far. You could leave the 20 sisters and 20 EG to fight/guard an important objective, and take the rest to teleport around and kill stuff. When the opportunity arrives, you can offload the 10 EG and the Wild Riders to contest other objective(s). 

I definitely would not try and teleport the Sisters of the Watch at all - you lose too much value from them by moving. And that's where we hit the main problem with this list. You're paying for a battalion that centers around shooting targets near the Nomad Prince, but your primary shooty unit is one that doesn't do as well while following the Nomad Prince around. So you're losing a lot of the value from both the Sisters and the Battalion. You might consider just dropping the battalion altogether if you are dead set on running Sisters. 

Try it out though and let us know how it works! The advantages of having a smaller percentage of your army teleport around is that you can squeeze into smaller portions of the table, making it harder to block you off. Or, if you plan to just teleport once and then sit there raining fire on the enemy, this might work great. 

[WABBIT]

1 hour ago, Tidings said:

Except new Waywatchers technically don't have points anymore, so you can't play them in Matched play, unless your opponent is cool with the old points applying to a unit of 5x instead of 3x. In a tourny you can't even use them in mixed order - they just don't exist outside open play anymore. 

*Fingers in my ears  - No I refuse to believe you, Also the earth is flat and I'm going to live forever. My Mum said so so there.

[WABBIT]

Basically my take on it is to ignore GW outside of events who blindly follow strict tourney rules - a good event will find a way to allow compendium lists to take part or they will reduce the number of players who can or want to attend.. Strict tourney rules ruin a good game of AoS in my view.  Just play sensibly and let your opponents bring what they want within the agreed limits of the game whether that's points, wounds, faction affiliations etc.. No one is stopping me playing wood elves with Wanderer keyword if they want a game that's my army. I've spent far too long painting them all to just stick em all in a drawer and I'm almost finished too.  I suggest you all do the same - Ignore GW's poor marketing pressure tactics.

[Yeled]

18 minutes ago, Tidings said:

If you want to run a list like this, then you'll have to play it a bit differently than what I've been trying so far. You could leave the 20 sisters and 20 EG to fight/guard an important objective, and take the rest to teleport around and kill stuff. When the opportunity arrives, you can offload the 10 EG and the Wild Riders to contest other objective(s). 

I definitely would not try and teleport the Sisters of the Watch at all - you lose too much value from them by moving. And that's where we hit the main problem with this list. You're paying for a battalion that centers around shooting targets near the Nomad Prince, but your primary shooty unit is one that doesn't do as well while following the Nomad Prince around. So you're losing a lot of the value from both the Sisters and the Battalion. You might consider just dropping the battalion altogether if you are dead set on running Sisters. 

Try it out though and let us know how it works! The advantages of having a smaller percentage of your army teleport around is that you can squeeze into smaller portions of the table, making it harder to block you off. Or, if you plan to just teleport once and then sit there raining fire on the enemy, this might work great. 

Waywatchers have official match play points.

 

[Tidings]

19 minutes ago, Yeled said:

Waywatchers have official match play points.

 

Oops! Somehow I couldn't find this in the book and in the app they have no points. My bad!

[Yeled]

Just now, Tidings said:

Oops! Somehow I couldn't find this in the book and in the app they have no points. My bad!

It's on the last page of the Compendium PDF.

[WABBIT]

I thought I saw it. *Pop" *fingers out of ears  

 

5 way waters for 80 pts. Fill yer Boots! a decent pointed unit at last! And they are battle line. Wanderers can compete with that and offsets the outrageously high point for all our other prime units.

[DantePQ]

Problem with Sisters is that I alrwady have 20 , all I need to buy is 5 Wild Riders and I am not really keen on buying a lot of Glade Guards as I don't like minis very much. But maybe I can swap sisters for extra 20 GG and 10 EG. 

[Cambot1231]

Had my first game with Wanderers allegiance yesterday and man it was fun!  I would have won had I killed one more liberator (came down to kill points and each one of us was holding the other's objective).  A few little notes I took away from the battle against my stormcast opponent running Knife in the heart scenario:  

Sister of the watch with a unit of Eternal guard wrapping them have nice synergy together.  Either hold them back at your objective and stay put so they both get their non moving bonus together or teleport them in a block but out of range for that crucial turn where they don't get the bonus since they moved.  

Eternal Guard didnt get into combat and just sat around screening things not sure if its worth it to run more than even one unit as bodyguard to sisters of watch. I wish they had more offense capability but that is what WWRangers are for.  The main power of the shooting seems to come from that initial -3 rend blast from them, but after that I was relying mostly on the rend shots where I could find them in the Waywatcher lords,  and sisters of thorn (when they felt up to task)   and making sure to dodge/ kite with those units.  Sisters of the watch become viable once they get their non- shooting bonus. 

I did not play with the battalion as all of my models had not arrived but i think the extra shooting phase is going to be terrifying.  I ran a Durthu who got starsoul-maced off the board in one turn lol

I was not teleporting in one big block but two-  it was great  luring an enemy detachment out to an empty part of the board away from an objective and then just stranding them there  and popping up somewhere else.  HAHA better run back you clunky gold b@#$tards!  Good times

[Yeled]

5 minutes ago, Cambot1231 said:

HAHA better run back you clunky gold b@#$tards!  Good times.

I laughed.

I like the idea of moving in two blocks. It doesn't work quite as well with waystone Pathfinders, but it seems very promising in terms of controlling the battlefield.

[Yeled]

The other thing is there is really no reason the two blocks have to stay separate. They could move together, separate, exchange parts...the whole teleporting thing allows for a lot of combinations.

[Aezeal]

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders

Nomad Prince (80) - General - Command Trait : Stalker of the Hidden Paths - Artefact : Viridescent Shawl

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Units

30 x Glade Guard (360)

30 x Glade Guard (360)

20 x Eternal Guard (160)

Total: 1460/1500 Points

Leaders: 6/6 Battlelines: 2 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4

Leaves me 40 points... what options do we have for that? Sadly no hunting hounds since we can't ally our wood elf compendium models. Is there another option besides the Gryph-hound?

Any suggestions about the list? It's basicly teleport and shoot. Maybe I'd split the EG's in 10s and teleport one with the archers however considering my last game I'm also considering just teleporting archers to keep another 1-2 inch distance from the enemy. The EG would then just take an objective and stay there.

 

[Yeled]

18 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders

Nomad Prince (80) - General - Command Trait : Stalker of the Hidden Paths - Artefact : Viridescent Shawl

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Waywatcher (100)

Units

30 x Glade Guard (360)

30 x Glade Guard (360)

20 x Eternal Guard (160)

Total: 1460/1500 Points

Leaders: 6/6 Battlelines: 2 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4

Leaves me 40 points... what options do we have for that? Sadly no hunting hounds since we can't ally our wood elf compendium models. Is there another option besides the Gryph-hound?

Any suggestions about the list? It's basicly teleport and shoot. Maybe I'd split the EG's in 10s and teleport one with the archers however considering my last game I'm also considering just teleporting archers to keep another 1-2 inch distance from the enemy. The EG would then just take an objective and stay there.

 

It's interesting how you've gone as basic as you can. I wonder how well it will work.

Me, I think I'd still use SotW, Spellweaver, and Sisters of the Thorn.

One thing that's missing from our conversation overall is consideration of the double turn. That's where EG and SotW should really shine. Consider: You create a one drop army using Waystone Pathfinders. You allow your opponent to go first then drop into a safe corner, as per suggestions by @Tidings. Get your buffs up, teleport your entire army to an attack position with EG wrapping your archers and the nomad prince in the middle. Fire your bodkin arrows and SotW 1x attack at the closest or most threatening target. 

Next turn, roll for initiative. If you get the first turn, activate Fortress of Boughs, mystic shield, and Shield of Thorns on EG. Fire all archers at next targets using Waystone Pathfinders. Then sit tight and wait for shooting phase, fire again including double arrows from SotW. Brace yourself for attack from whatever is left of their army.

Next turn, or if you don't get the double turn, after you've been attacked activate whatever spells you want and fire a volley of arrows using the Waystone Pathfinders ability, then teleport away and set up the same scenario from a different position. Rinse and repeat.

The double turn can play a huge roll in this strategy and not having SotW or large enough units of EG to withstand a round of attacks means you're not going to be able to take full advantage. Basically what you are doing is trying to set up the double turn, and you move around firing until you get it.

 

[Aezeal]

6 minutes ago, Yeled said:

It's interesting how you've gone as basic as you can. I wonder how well it will work.

Me, I think I'd still use SotW, Spellweaver, and Sisters of the Thorn.

One thing that's missing from our conversation overall is consideration of the double turn. That's where EG and SotW should really shine. Consider: You create a one drop army using Waystone Pathfinders. You allow your opponent to go first then drop into a safe corner, as per suggestions by @Tidings. Get your buffs up, teleport your entire army to an attack position with EG wrapping your archers and the nomad prince in the middle. Fire your bodkin arrows and SotW 1x attack at the closest or most threatening target. 

Next turn, roll for initiative. If you get the first turn, activate Fortress of Boughs, mystic shield, and Shield of Thorns on EG. Fire all archers at next targets using Waystone Pathfinders. Then sit tight and wait for shooting phase, fire again including double arrows from SotW. Brace yourself for attack from whatever is left of their army.

Next turn, or if you don't get the double turn, after you've been attacked activate whatever spells you want and fire a volley of arrows using the Waystone Pathfinders ability, then teleport away and set up the same scenario from a different position. Rinse and repeat.

The double turn can play a huge roll in this strategy and not having SotW or large enough units of EG to withstand a round of attacks means you're not going to be able to take full advantage. Basically what you are doing is trying to set up the double turn, and you move around firing until you get it.

 

I don't have sisters of the thorn (but could proxy with old glade riders) but also the waystone pathfinders doesn't easily fit in 1500 points. I also don't have sisters of the watch (I might proxy them with old waywatchers though) but I think I'll wait till 2K points to use them.

I dropped the spell weaver in the end but I might get him back instead of a waywatcher.  

About teleporting the EG: I noticed last game that if my back archers need to be in 20" AND all models need to be in 6"of the edge it means that if you teleport 40 archers it means everything in front of the backline of archers (which will be about 7 rows of GG means that the front gets REALLY close to the enemy in the end... putting EG in front of the makes that even closer).

[Yeled]

4 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

I don't have sisters of the thorn (but could proxy with old glade riders) but also the waystone pathfinders doesn't easily fit in 1500 points. I also don't have sisters of the watch (I might proxy them with old waywatchers though) but I think I'll wait till 2K points to use them.

I dropped the spell weaver in the end but I might get him back instead of a waywatcher.  

About teleporting the EG: I noticed last game that if my back archers need to be in 20" AND all models need to be in 6"of the edge it means that if you teleport 40 archers it means everything in front of the backline of archers (which will be about 7 rows of GG means that the front gets REALLY close to the enemy in the end... putting EG in front of the makes that even closer).

They don't all need to be within 6", do they? Just one model from each unit does. You should be able to string them out from there, providing more room. No?

Edit: Oh, you mean when they land. Hmm.

[Aezeal]

1 minute ago, Yeled said:

They don't all need to be within 6", do they? Just one model from each unit does. You should be able to string them out from there, providing more room. No?

They can be strung out before leaving.. when arriving they have to be within 6"of the edge (quote: "... all models wholly within 6"of the edge of the battlefield... ") That means you can only put 6 in a row when facing to the side (likely  you will be teleporting to the back edge but still on one side of the enemy the first turn or a side of the board : unlikely to have room directly behind enemies and if you can go there unlikely you'll be at max distance which you'd want anyway. So that means 5 rows of 6  for a unit of 30 meaning the ones closest to the enemy are likely at 16" if you then put the nomad prince and waywatchers on a row and THEN another unit of 30 that means you'll probably have the closest models already at like... 12"from the enemy... unless you teleport the 2nd unit somewhere else.. loosing the nomad rr 1 buff and loosing the ability to teleport out to any edge. 

[Yeled]

7 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

They can be strung out before leaving.. when arriving they have to be within 6"of the edge (quote: "... all models wholly within 6"of the edge of the battlefield... ") That means you can only put 6 in a row when facing to the side (likely  you will be teleporting to the back edge but still on one side of the enemy the first turn or a side of the board : unlikely to have room directly behind enemies and if you can go there unlikely you'll be at max distance which you'd want anyway. So that means 5 rows of 6  for a unit of 30 meaning the ones closest to the enemy are likely at 16" if you then put the nomad prince and waywatchers on a row and THEN another unit of 30 that means you'll probably have the closest models already at like... 12"from the enemy... unless you teleport the 2nd unit somewhere else.. loosing the nomad rr 1 buff and loosing the ability to teleport out to any edge. 

That's another reason to use smaller units. We really need GW to update our warscrolls. Buffing huge units when we need them small for the sake of efficiency is another disconnect between our units and the new allegiance abilities.

[Aezeal]

Just now, Yeled said:

That's another reason to use smaller units. We really need GW to update our warscrolls. Buffing huge units when we need them small for the sake of efficiency is another disconnect between our units and the new allegiance abilities.

The bonus at 20 really makes 30's nice for GG, I'm lucky mine are on small squares anyway.. on larger rounds the problem I mention would be bigger

[Tidings]

@Aezeal The list looks good. Hope for second turn and alpha strike the ****** out of your opponent, if you get the double turn you basically win. With that many GG and Waystalkers you should shoot a massive amount of his army off in the first turn or two. I would consider swapping out one Waystalker like you mentioned because having the Spellsinger allows you to put Mystic Shield or top off a unit of GG that drops below 20, allowing you to get the +1 back again. 

But honestly, your list is probably more competitive as it is right now though, being purely focused on the alpha strike. Without a battalion you won't have the luxury of choosing the turn in most cases, but even if you have first turn you can teleport and blow stuff up. If you roll bad and your opponent gets the double turn, you'll be hard pressed to win after that, though you can just teleport away so it's not as bad as it used to be. 

I would definitely drop Viridescent Shawl on the Nomad Prince and instead give one of the Waystalkers (to diversify your threats) something like the 20" MW shot. You don't have any casters to benefit from the Shawl, and you're not running the battalion so if he dies, it's not as big a deal. The goal of this list as I see it is to kill your opponent in one or two shooting phases, so to that end I would pick up the ranged MWs because if you need to do 1 or 2 wounds to a unit to finish it off, you don't have to wast a Watstalker's shooting on it. 

I would not take Sisters of the Watch in a Wanderer allegiance list. The more I play and theorycraft, the less I like them. They can be good but I would do exactly as you did and spam GG. The -3 rend is too powerful, as is the freedom to move and shoot at full effectiveness. 

For the extra 40 points, I would just keep it for the bonus rerolls on the turn you alpha. Your list is built for that first turn of shooting, and the rerolls will help more than a Gryph Hound imo. 

Looks good, for 1500 points pure Wanderers, that's basically what I would take as well.

[Yeled]

@Aezeal, definitely let us know how it goes.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Yeled said:

@Aezeal, definitely let us know how it goes.

I'll be playing a returning player with only old HE troops playing order allegiance. I should have an advantage there but a double turn can really hurt me bad if an elite unit reaches me before being mauled (as in that TnT game I mentioned). I still think objectives will be a problem.. but if I can just delete a unit a turn and then loose the objective game I'll be happy too :D. On duality I'll just try to target characters and accept any incoming damage and hope that I can claim a point after enemies characters are dead :D.

 

I was actually taking the shawl fot the -1"to hit as you guessed, to keep the Nomad prince reroll and teleport trait in action,. Sure he's even more important in a batallion but having all my archers stuck on the opponents boarded is something I want to avoid as long as possible. And the mw output doesn't seem that good.

I removed the weaver since the rend 1 on waywatchers hots is just something I want to get as much as possible. I even considered going 6 waywatchers since I don't have the batallion anyway with the shawl a Waywatcher general would be very survivable with -1 to hit (however the prince has reroll saves) and it would increase my ranged damage output and lower overal incoming ranged damage... However The rr 1's seems almost needed on the gg especially on their bodkins. 

Rr 1's on 5 ww and 60 gg vs another 6 (possibly exploding)waywatcher shots..I've not done the math (feel free) but I think the nomad prince will win... The survivability see but do not be seen gives to ww and army are harder to take into account.

[BloodTithe]

For anyone interested  (I posted this in the sylvaneth forum too). Sisters of the watch are epic! (This video does have a slight focus on whether or not you should replace your hunters for sisters in a sylvaneth army, but you may find it interesting anyway).

 

[Runicmadhamster]

6 hours ago, Tidings said:

It's the mandatory 3x Waywatcher Lords for the Waystone Pathfinder battalion, not the old Waywatchers.

Three Waywatchers (the heroes not the unit) are a terrifying thing go face down. I have used two of them to take down a Hydra in a single round of shooting, using Fast Shot of course, because 6 shots hitting on 2s, with a 5 and a 6 being an extra shot is truly wonderful.