Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Aezeal]

Hehe well I agree with Tidings.. but me being a natural diplomat would typed it down with a bit less obvious annoyance in my reply ;). 

[Cerve]

3 hours ago, Tidings said:

Where have I've said you should teleport for objectives. I have never once said that lol. That's not even an option in most scenarios. What I HAVE been saying is that teleporting is a waste of time and doesn't help you in an objective based game, because of the ways the rules are designed. If you are simplifying that to "teleporting for an objective" then you are massively twisting my words lol.

So in your little theory-crafted example, you've basically described slowly whittling your enemy down and baiting them. Well, @Aezeal summed up why this doesn't work in AoS. We have only 5 turns, and if your opponent is scoring objectives for more of those than you, then you lose. So yeah, it actually is a bit of a race for objectives in most scenarios. 
But you keep talking about baiting, and I keep trying to point out that good players simply don't fall for bait. They zone you out so the only places you can teleport are places that have literally no impact on the game. Really not sure how I can be more clear, but you don't seem to understand what I'm saying. 

Wanderers have an allegiance ability that doesn't synergize with a good portion of our tiny roster (because of movement). It's easy to counter, and is rarely even moderately useful. More often than not, it leads to very predictable games, since the opponent can easily dictate where you can and can't teleport. 

Finally, once again, I have never said teleporting should be used for taking objectives. I have only said it is far less useful in an objective-based game than having the broader unit selection of a Mixed Order army. 

Ok, you're right

[Tidings]

Sorry if I was too stubborn/annoyed in my reply, poor form on my part. I get passionate when debating lol.

[Cerve]

11 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Sorry if I was too stubborn/annoyed in my reply, poor form on my part. I get passionate when debating lol.

It's not that, it's fine. You play more than me for sure (:  I just find that baiting still a thing in AoS. Yes Wanderers struggle in some games (the turn-by-turn points objective for example), but they need some allies for that. They lack in choices imho.

 

Anyway, the thing is: if I have to play Order, I just don't play Wanderers at all. There's better. So I have no clue to play Wanderers without the Allegiance :-/ is what makes them...."Wanderers".

 

Plus, I'm a desperate optimistic person ahah, take that beer my friend!

[Tidings]

Hahaha thanks for understanding!    I'm a little frustrated with Wanderers too. Still trying to make them work as Mixed Order but more and more often I'm doing what you said: replacing them with better stuff. That makes me sad.

Hopefully Wanderers get some proper support and rules sooner rather than later. They feel like the allegiance abilities and the warscrolls were designed by two different people with no communication or planning. 

[Origin]

3 hours ago, Tidings said:

Hopefully Wanderers get some proper support and rules sooner rather than later. They feel like the allegiance abilities and the warscrolls were designed by two different people with no communication or planning. 

Unfortunately I cannot see this happening. Which is really disappointing. 

All my regular opponents have now got my teleporting firmly in hand. I just basically gun line it now. Which as pointed out many times before, is a subpar gun line at best. 

Still enjoy playing the green gits however. 

[WABBIT]

You both made good points and much depends on your local meta. Ultimately Wanderers aren't tournament ready and if you want to compete  at events choose another army. We play Wanderers because we like em. It would be nice if their rules made sense but until someone at GW can be bothered to fix them unfortunately they will remain frustrating to play. I hate having to bunch up my whole army just to make a dent in the enemy. AoS is about having a big mosh in the middle over an objective or two. It's about winning as quickly as you can and slogging it out. All factors my regular Orc and Chaos opponents wanted in a game because it suited their armies play style and units. In 8th Elves could dictate the style of battle to some degree and they had too with such small, expensive, fragile, fast moving glass cannon armies. Who ever wrote AoS clearly favours a limited style of play and it's all about the mosh in the middle. Adding an objective forces you to be somewhere so you don't have to chase the enemy about, add a timer and they cannot avoid you for long - this means fragile expensive armies (AELVES) will get ruined most games.

Playing Finesse armies or "the long game" will not win you many if any games but you might destroy your opponent's army by turn 5?  

Lets face it if you're not collecting Storm Cast Eternals AoS is not aimed at you. You are just the scenery. I'm sure something Aelven will appear soon but I'm not sure it will satisfy the wood elf fans in AoS. My money is on a Swift Hawk themed revamp. They have Eagles after all and monsters sell.

[Cinncinnatus]

So I've been looking at Wanderers a bit recently, reading the discussions in this thread, and have been brainstorming different Wanderer's lists. I decided to do something anathema with my take: Max Wild Riders!!! 

20	Wild Riders
30	Eternal Guard
30	Eternal Guard
20	Glade Guard
5	Sisters of the Thorn
1	Waywatcher
1	Spellweaver
1	Spellweaver
1	Waywatcher
1	Waywatcher
1	Waywatcher

Waywatcher general gets Stalker, one of the Spellweavers gets Viridescent Shawl. General idea is on your first turn, Inspiring presence on the Wild Riders, as well as Mystic shield and Shield of Thorns, who run up the board to be the largest roadblock they can be. They don't need to kill anything necessarily (Hell, depending on your run roll it might even behoove you not to charge!) they just need to be in the way. One of the Spellweavers uses Hidden Paths  to get within 18" of the Wild Riders while remaining on the flank (or just out of the way of objectives). Sole purpose here is the cast Blessing of Life on the Wild Riders as the battle wears on. With such a large footprint, you could lock in a significant portion of your opponent's force, hopefully leading to inefficient pile ins. They won't kill much but should slow your opponent down as you keep bringing them back. 

While that is going on, your Eternal Guard run up the board as fast as they can, hopefully with good run roles. I'd only use the rerolls they get on 1's and 2's. 3+ gets you to most objectives soundly. Once they are in position they will be the recipients of Mystic Shield and Shield of Thorns so they can hunker down on the objectives.

The Waywatchers stick together at deployment. With only four models, you can conceivably insert them in the back lines first turn should your opponent make a mistake in their deployment (maybe they only consider whole units coming in). Or, you can just throw them to whatever flank you feel needs the shooting support or his command ability to make the units more durable. If your opponent commits to the Waywatchers on the flanks, just use Hidden path to get out of Dodge, hopefullly leaving an enemy unit out of position to help on an objective. In my mind these are the only units that should be using Realm Wanderers regularly throughout the game.

This is definitely a defensive list, and won't kill much of anything (the Waywatchers will probably be the only ones doing significant damage). But I think it would be better for capping objectives than a stronger shooting army. And while Wild Riders won't bowl anything over, maxed out they have a lot of 2 wound models which when paired with Blessing of Life can create a frustrating road block for your opponent.

Not sure if the Sisters of the Thorn are worth it over a unit of Sisters of the Watch, but Shield of Thorns just looks so good on paper.

List has weaknesses of course. It's a lot of drops so you will be facing the possibility of an early double turn early on fairly often I think. Also, if opponents get to objectives before you, you will most likely not have the tools to shift them off easily (This is why I'm torn between the two Sisters units!). It has no mortal wound protection (of course this is a nearly universal weakness in AoS  so oh well). And some scenarios are still tough, specifically Duality of Death. 

So what do you think? Have I failed to consider anything? 

[Origin]

I am really interested to see how that goes mate. Very cool idea. 

[WABBIT]

@CinncinnatusI used 20 wild riders in my last game vs a clan pestilence army. They were in two units of 10 with a dragon lord and 2 eagle lord riders in support plus a spell weaver. There are pictures of their charge above in this thread see page 31. I didn’t have any sisters of the thorn though. I also used Old Orion scroll to make them immune to battleshock which did help prevent losing even more models after they were shot at in turn one.

The spell weaver didn’t have a huge impact on resurrecting wild riders and D3 models is a bit meh but if you’re lucky and get a 3 it can be ok. 

The wild riders did very well against pestilens  wiping out most of the 30 frenzied plague monks  in one charge. Both units charged in with the dragon and Orion and the plague furnace miraculously survived on 1 wound though I later realised it should have died as my general on the dragon was using the relic blade and I forgot to increase his damage. I also took out his flame thrower and 10 globadiers nearby as my wild riders piled in around the large unit.

The dragons breath allowed me to get all my attacks in before he could strike back so I maximised my eagle lords, both units of wild riders before taking any losses. 

Units of 10 wild riders work best as you can just about get them all into combat on a good charge roll and being able to run and charge helps a lot. More than 10 and you will struggle. Inspiring presence is a must on these if you’re not using the old Orion scroll so that means you’re not using other more beneficial command abilities on other units like the nomads re-roll 1s. 

The main reason wild riders did well is because plague monks have no save and they all got to attack first thanks to my dragon. The plague monks had a ward save up from the plague priest or furnace which helped them but if I had charged Storm vermin as I had done before they would have done almost no damage and then died in droves.

on my opposite flank my 30 eternal guard and 2 units of waywatchers in the wood (pictured above) were wiped out to a man by one unit of 30 plague monks and another furnace. Sudden death meant in his turn 1 he held all 3 objectives before my wild rider charge on my turn 1 so he won the game before I had even taken a turn. That’s the silliness of AoS sometimes and it has put some of my friends off playing it anymore sadly. We played on anyway and it was clear my army would have wrecked his in another 2 or 3 turns but he resigned after the wild rider charge as his general died as well. 

I was thinking of building my next army around 2 units of 30 eternal guard too. I like your list and I hope you enjoy playing it but it does lack some key support units to make wild riders capable which sadly are probably no longer allowed in the tournament meta but if your playing a friendly/open play game I’m sure a reasonable opponent would let you use older warscrolls. After all that’s how wild riders were designed - With those older support units in mind.

The lack of rend on the charge hurts wild riders and their weak save leaves them open to punishing casualties and battleshock so they really need inspiring presence to hold on. Using a big single unit of 20 could work if space allows and your charging hordes or several clumped up units, plus the run and charge gives them more distance to get as many of the riders in as possible. A long line like I used in the photo would allows a big wrap around attack that reduces the enemies hits back if they have 1” combat range. But you’re obviously open to counter charges and drawing many enemy units into fight your one unit. It could make shield of thorns more potent though with all the return attacks. 

Timing is key along with enemy disposition of units. If you charge in early and they have supporting units nearby you will be crushed by counter charges and so far forward your own supporting units cannot help you or deflect any of the return fire. Maybe hold them back until your anvils can engage. I realise this is counter to your strategy of throwing wild riders forward as a holding force to slow down the enemy advance and to allow your anvils to position higher up the field and potentially grab objective before the enemy and it’s a great idea. I look forward to hearing how you get on. Please let us know, I will have a go at that myself next game I think. I hate planning armies around sacrificing units as road blocks but it’s a valid strategy and one that is often the most successful. Good luck. ???

[Aezeal]

How about playing a hammerhal army (because why not) instead of general order and use hunting hounds as described in the Ironweld arsenal topic in addition to a hurricanum. 

I'd say a unit of 20 EG, 10 hunting hounds spread out in units of 1, and then our regular shootyness... maybe with a few reaper boltthrowers and a lore master in there for some long range fun? It's a bit of a mess with the hero limit to go all waywatcher or to get a nomad prince, that loremaster or a mage on the hurricanum. I'd think I'd go loremaster if you use a reaper or 2 and not taking the mage on the hurricanum seems a bit of a waste. With the +1 on the hurricanum  (and probably being a bit more spread out than in wanderer teleport mode) I think it's not a bad idea to take the 4th waywatcher over the nomad prince

Maybe someone who has the models and who play a lot and has time for an experimental game could try this, I think it has a lot of potential. 4 waywatchers with exploding shots on 4+ (not moving and near hurricanum), a buffed reaper due to loremaster (also near hurricanum) would have some damage output at range. Some GG could defend a backline objective. EG could move up being screened by a few hounds. Other hounds could work as objective grabbers once defenders have been shot.

[Cerve]

16 hours ago, WABBIT said:

@CinncinnatusI used 20 wild riders in my last game vs a clan pestilence army. They were in two units of 10 with a dragon lord and 2 eagle lord riders in support plus a spell weaver. There are pictures of their charge above in this thread see page 31. I didn’t have any sisters of the thorn though. I also used Old Orion scroll to make them immune to battleshock which did help prevent losing even more models after they were shot at in turn one.

The spell weaver didn’t have a huge impact on resurrecting wild riders and D3 models is a bit meh but if you’re lucky and get a 3 it can be ok. 

The wild riders did very well against pestilens  wiping out most of the 30 frenzied plague monks  in one charge. Both units charged in with the dragon and Orion and the plague furnace miraculously survived on 1 wound though I later realised it should have died as my general on the dragon was using the relic blade and I forgot to increase his damage. I also took out his flame thrower and 10 globadiers nearby as my wild riders piled in around the large unit.

The dragons breath allowed me to get all my attacks in before he could strike back so I maximised my eagle lords, both units of wild riders before taking any losses. 

Units of 10 wild riders work best as you can just about get them all into combat on a good charge roll and being able to run and charge helps a lot. More than 10 and you will struggle. Inspiring presence is a must on these if you’re not using the old Orion scroll so that means you’re not using other more beneficial command abilities on other units like the nomads re-roll 1s. 

The main reason wild riders did well is because plague monks have no save and they all got to attack first thanks to my dragon. The plague monks had a ward save up from the plague priest or furnace which helped them but if I had charged Storm vermin as I had done before they would have done almost no damage and then died in droves.

on my opposite flank my 30 eternal guard and 2 units of waywatchers in the wood (pictured above) were wiped out to a man by one unit of 30 plague monks and another furnace. Sudden death meant in his turn 1 he held all 3 objectives before my wild rider charge on my turn 1 so he won the game before I had even taken a turn. That’s the silliness of AoS sometimes and it has put some of my friends off playing it anymore sadly. We played on anyway and it was clear my army would have wrecked his in another 2 or 3 turns but he resigned after the wild rider charge as his general died as well. 

I was thinking of building my next army around 2 units of 30 eternal guard too. I like your list and I hope you enjoy playing it but it does lack some key support units to make wild riders capable which sadly are probably no longer allowed in the tournament meta but if your playing a friendly/open play game I’m sure a reasonable opponent would let you use older warscrolls. After all that’s how wild riders were designed - With those older support units in mind.

The lack of rend on the charge hurts wild riders and their weak save leaves them open to punishing casualties and battleshock so they really need inspiring presence to hold on. Using a big single unit of 20 could work if space allows and your charging hordes or several clumped up units, plus the run and charge gives them more distance to get as many of the riders in as possible. A long line like I used in the photo would allows a big wrap around attack that reduces the enemies hits back if they have 1” combat range. But you’re obviously open to counter charges and drawing many enemy units into fight your one unit. It could make shield of thorns more potent though with all the return attacks. 

Timing is key along with enemy disposition of units. If you charge in early and they have supporting units nearby you will be crushed by counter charges and so far forward your own supporting units cannot help you or deflect any of the return fire. Maybe hold them back until your anvils can engage. I realise this is counter to your strategy of throwing wild riders forward as a holding force to slow down the enemy advance and to allow your anvils to position higher up the field and potentially grab objective before the enemy and it’s a great idea. I look forward to hearing how you get on. Please let us know, I will have a go at that myself next game I think. I hate planning armies around sacrificing units as road blocks but it’s a valid strategy and one that is often the most successful. Good luck. ???

Where was the "all the dead Monks can pile in and attack before you remove them" pray? 

 

Anyway, the problem is that the Dragon Blades cost precisely as the Wild Hunters ....

[WABBIT]

6 hours ago, Cerve said:

Where was the "all the dead Monks can pile in and attack before you remove them" pray? 

 

Anyway, the problem is that the Dragon Blades cost precisely as the Wild Hunters ....

No idea is it a prayer they have to cast? He didn’t cast it but he has plenty of other prayer buffs on them. 

Gore gruntas are even better than dragon blades and hit the same cost as wild riders - 140?

i played order btw not wanderers as I didn’t find wanderers allegiance very useful and worth the restrictions on army unit choice. 

You could always use the dragon blades warscroll with the wild rider models for themed look. 

[Aezeal]

20 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

No idea is it a prayer they have to cast? He didn’t cast it but he has plenty of other prayer buffs on them. 

Gore gruntas are even better than dragon blades and hit the same cost as wild riders - 140?

i played order btw not wanderers as I didn’t find wanderers allegiance very useful and worth the restrictions on army unit choice. 

You could always use the dragon blades warscroll with the wild rider models for themed look. 

GW put a very high value on movement and maybe that is correct considering objective grabbing.. But once they are in melee it just means the faster guys will get hammered (though we should get the charge/deny them the charge bonus).

[Aezeal]

14 hours ago, Aezeal said:

How about playing a hammerhal army (because why not) instead of general order and use hunting hounds as described in the Ironweld arsenal topic in addition to a hurricanum. 

I'd say a unit of 20 EG, 10 hunting hounds spread out in units of 1, and then our regular shootyness... maybe with a few reaper boltthrowers and a lore master in there for some long range fun? It's a bit of a mess with the hero limit to go all waywatcher or to get a nomad prince, that loremaster or a mage on the hurricanum. I'd think I'd go loremaster if you use a reaper or 2 and not taking the mage on the hurricanum seems a bit of a waste. With the +1 on the hurricanum  (and probably being a bit more spread out than in wanderer teleport mode) I think it's not a bad idea to take the 4th waywatcher over the nomad prince

Maybe someone who has the models and who play a lot and has time for an experimental game could try this, I think it has a lot of potential. 4 waywatchers with exploding shots on 4+ (not moving and near hurricanum), a buffed reaper due to loremaster (also near hurricanum) would have some damage output at range. Some GG could defend a backline objective. EG could move up being screened by a few hounds. Other hounds could work as objective grabbers once defenders have been shot.

While we are at it which compendium woodies would be worth their points (more than their wanderer counterparts ... hard to beat waywatchers for a hero slot).

[Frozenbeast]

Just had one day tournament over the weekend with wanderers and a part my inexperience and dumbness and some bad dice roll I had so much fun the list included the already quoted 3 waywatcher and the kicked some serious ******. I think I cannot remember how many casualities they made (something like 60-70 wounds...? Maybe more?) but seriously i was imbarased at some point to even throw the dice because Knew it was gonna get ridiculous!!! 

9 hours ago, Aezeal said:

While we are at it which compendium woodies would be worth their points (more than their wanderer counterparts ... hard to beat waywatchers for a hero slot).

Absolutely agree, hard to beat although playing Order if you wanna have some CC ass kicker you have to drop them. We have a bunch of other shooty options that if paired with a couple of other warscrolls from order they fire as good as them, while on the CC side we lack in the troop slot. I though something like this speaking of compendium:

nomad prince general master of defence

Avatar of the hunt phenix stone

Glade lord on dragon (dragonlord)

Loremaster

Celestial mage on hrricanum

GGx20

GGx20

GGx10

warhawk raiders x3(for objectives)

2000/2000

 

correct me if is not legal but it should

The idea is taret saturation with the frontline supported by the loremaster and the backline by the hurricanum and when having to choose who.to sacrifice (eg. Murder host coming at you at turn one) you conga line on unit of GG at a time. I have added the Avatar because i have got a small project on.how to build him so wanted to make sure I could play it.

[WABBIT]

I know people rave on about Way watcher heroes but I've never used them mainly because I don't want my shooting to come from a small handful of heroes. I want my army to be competitive but I also want it to have some units that can do stuff and have an army that looks good. A bunch of heroes and some obligatory minimum strength Battleline units resembles a skirmish game or 40k and is a common sign of poorly balanced AoS armies. It's nice we have a decent shooting hero but I have over 100 Glade guard and I would much rather have a good reason to use them over a couple of waywatchers.  It's a shame the GG war scroll isn't very good. It says a lot when most wood elf generals prefer to take 3 or 4 heroes instead of more rank and file bowmen, 3-4 waywatchers are out shooting 30 -40 Glade Guard for less points. 

 

@Frozenbeast The avatar of the hunt is still over priced but he can do well. The glade dragon is weaker than a normal Dragon Lord and is the same points I think so unless you are planning to engage enemy units with multiple supporting units to take advantage of the glade dragon's breath attack (its true strength!) then I would advise you take the High Born Dragon scroll as it perform better independently if it has to.

Also 5 wardancers and 5 Waywatchers come to 140 pts. That's only 20 pts more than 10 Glade guard. Plus Waywatchers are battleline (and come in 5's now not 3's  ) Wardancers make better screens and can even punch back quite well if they survive. Plus they synergise much better with the Glade Dragon if you decide to take full advantage of its breath attack. Having an avatar screens by wardancers is also very useful to stop it getting swamped by masses of infantry. Kudos on using 50 GG I'm and I look forward to hearing how it goes!  sure with the hurricanums help they will do some serious damage to the right armies.

[Aezeal]

6 x 100 point heroes hardly makes the army skirmish.. My sylvaneth usually have more points in characters and the same goes for most of my opponents. I mean I've used 40 gg and 20 EG next to them in my last game with wanderers  and that was only 1500 points

I agree the forest dragon should only be used in a melee focused army, if he was a possible ally (is not) he'd fit nicely in a sylvaneth list for example. 

[Frozenbeast]

I know bout the glade dragon that is why I wanted to try it and anyway I've put the dragonlord in brackets 'cause if one does not work i'd use the other one. As per battleline of course if I am playing for fun i ll use the waywatchers (maybe 10 then) but I am one of those non competitive people who likes to go to some tournament sometimes and see how I do so I would like to make it work like this as this is what we are given (yes everything is overpriced and we all agree).

That said this was only theory crafting I'll let you know how they play once I have enough models to at least proxy something.

aternatively:

heroes remain the same

GGx20

GGx10

Highborn spearmenx20 (wanderers themed army so I'd use EGs)

waywathcersx5

WHRx3

But anyway I'll try them all out and let you know.

[WABBIT]

I collect Sylvaneth too and they are great but they are one of the lowest model count armies due to the costly battalions and very strong hero choices. They can have lots of dryads etc but generally players go for the bigger guns. Storm cast and beast claw are also examples of low model count armies and it’s a general trend in AoS so far. Im not surprised as heroic monster models sell better and look awesome. All I am saying is I prefer to play with armies and not the magnificent 7. I’m not saying it’s bad to play high hero focused armies, it can be a lot of fun and is usually the most efficient choice. I know GW are trying to address this by making large regiments pay off but hordes still are not as effective as a strong hero or monster. My comment was more a general opinion on The state of the game rather than Just wanderers. It feels more like a 40k skirmish game than a proper war game with armies and using 6 shooting heroes is 600points less way watcher units or glade guard etc. It’s just my opinion it won’t change anything  anyone recall hero hammer?

[WABBIT]

@Frozenbeast so I’m intrigued what’s does your avatar of the hunt look like? Is it a conversion or something and can we see it?

[Frozenbeast]

9 hours ago, WABBIT said:

I know people rave on about Way watcher heroes but I've never used them mainly because I don't want my shooting to come from a small handful of heroes. I want my army to be competitive but I also want it to have some units that can do stuff and have an army that looks good. A bunch of heroes and some obligatory minimum strength Battleline units resembles a skirmish game or 40k and is a common sign of poorly balanced AoS armies. It's nice we have a decent shooting hero but I have over 100 Glade guard and I would much rather have a good reason to use them over a couple of waywatchers.  It's a shame the GG war scroll isn't very good. It says a lot when most wood elf generals prefer to take 3 or 4 heroes instead of more rank and file bowmen, 3-4 waywatchers are out shooting 30 -40 Glade Guard for less points. 

As per the Waywatchers heroes I feel you @Aezeal!!! This is why it took me so long to take them out of the roster, the fact is that unless you go on something like executioners or SCE we barely have some troops able to dash out enough dmg in CC so at the end of the day you have to relay on heroes for engages and this forces you to not have the WW because you have to field something else. Is so frustrating but since I have restarted playing Warhammer I promised myself to try and not moan too much and go with what is given to us even if is soooooo clear that things could have been done a lot better if only somebody had stopped and looked at them.

[Frozenbeast]

3 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

@Frozenbeast so I’m intrigued what’s does your avatar of the hunt look like? Is it a conversion or something and can we see it?

yeah it is still a WIP (basically I am buyig now all the random pieces and the project is in mi mind) bt as the army theme is WOW Night Elves the Avatar of the Hunt would be something similar to Cenarius (old Archaon horse torso and hands and head from another company plus a spear and a Kurnoth huner bow). I'll post the pics of the stepsXD. keep you up-to-date!

[TheGreatEnchanter]

17 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

yeah it is still a WIP (basically I am buyig now all the random pieces and the project is in mi mind) bt as the army theme is WOW Night Elves the Avatar of the Hunt would be something similar to Cenarius (old Archaon horse torso and hands and head from another company plus a spear and a Kurnoth huner bow). I'll post the pics of the stepsXD. keep you up-to-date!

Oh God please post pics!

[Aezeal]

30 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

As per the Waywatchers heroes I feel you @Aezeal!!! This is why it took me so long to take them out of the roster, the fact is that unless you go on something like executioners or SCE we barely have some troops able to dash out enough dmg in CC so at the end of the day you have to relay on heroes for engages and this forces you to not have the WW because you have to field something else. Is so frustrating but since I have restarted playing Warhammer I promised myself to try and not moan too much and go with what is given to us even if is soooooo clear that things could have been done a lot better if only somebody had stopped and looked at them.

Yeah so far in my wanderers games if been shooting only, take objective once it's cleared. Not a winning formula due to reason previously discussed.

I think I'm going to look for a cheap wardroth, the hurricanum contraption on its back and a Wych as a hurricanum proxy in sylvaneth style for sylvaneth/wanderer army.