Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Aezeal]

6 hours ago, Yeled said:

Sometimes the skeptic in me feels like the legacy factions got a halfhearted rules update when we moved from WFB to AoS. Seems like everything new comes with all these awesome abilities, two wounds, etc., while the legacy armies were thrown together with a core philosophy of "meh." I don't begrudge the new factions and their diverse rules sets (well, maybe Stormcast a little). I just want my faction to be awesome, too.

No need to be a s rptic to think that, it's an obvious strategy, not dropped but hardly really supported. .. GW subtly saying.. Just open your wallet and buy a shiny new army with all the abilities etc to be competitive. Mind you.. I don't blame gw, just not happy about it. I actually fear they wont expand on my Sylvaneth anymore either. I mean they have a book but really in terms of units they only have a few models.. and so much potential in my dreams... Wardroth cavalry.

[Aezeal]

42 minutes ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

 

I really don't want to be that guy but in that Warhammer TV interview Jervis said that when they were deciding on the armies to get Allegiance abilities and coverage in GHB2.0 they "reviewed the Grand Alliance books and model ranges and picked the factions that Games Workshop would not be producing a battletome for soon, but that players would want to see."

So while I do think it is a sign of continued support for the Wanderers in the future, IE they won't be squatted,  it's not optimistic there will be a battletome any time soon.

Yeah that was my guess too, not nice to be right. But when dispossessed got that treatment it was clear.. I mean after fyreslayers and bloondwarfs it was obvious theyd not get anything as that faction.

[Runicmadhamster]

If that is the case the, while disappointing,  things still aren't bad. What we got from the GHBv2 is still good, and i think it will help Wanderer's remain at least some what competitive.

[Origin]

44 minutes ago, Runicmadhamster said:

If that is the case the, while disappointing,  things still aren't bad. What we got from the GHBv2 is still good, and i think it will help Wanderer's remain at least some what competitive.

Couldn't agree more GH17 was great for us. The army feels and plays very differently and gives me options I never had, even if we did lose the compendium scrolls. But that was always going to happen, eventually. 

[Tidings]

8 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

Thanks ! This is the Celestial Fulcrum from Hordes.  I added the two GW spellsingers, and one Darkelf sorceress from Aatars of war ( wanderers paint scheme though) 

Hey Tidings I've really enjoyed reading your posts on new wanderer Tactics.  It may be too much, but It would be so awesome if you could diagram out a play by play of your Game with the Iron Jawz.  Wanderers seem like such a finesse high level tactics army with their new abilities.  It was great to get some form of an outline to utilize their abilities best.  Also the WWR vs Eternal Guard convo is interesting too.  I have one unit Eternal guard in my realm wanderers list and have to constuct another box of either eternal guard or Rangers.  Im thinking rangers just for variety sake and maybe to use as bate  as a priority target to lure my enemy into a trap.  

Awesome, if only I knew about it before starting my Hurricanum! I like that sorceress, will probably order one.

Thanks man! I'll try to make a full battle report of it over the next week. Spent an hour or so today laying out the board, my units, etc in a PSD. I didn't document the game as I went, so I'll have to do it all by memory. But I have a couple pics throughout the game and my opponent and I spent a while after discussing it thoroughly so I think I can manage.

I'm not overly found of the Rangers models since they are so static looking. Since GW basically killed off Wardancers, for now I am proxying my Wardancers as Rangers and everyone here including the local TO is cool with it, since none of them appreciate GW's "you can't use this anymore" move. 

[Lord Veshnakar]

To my previous point though I didn't mean to imply that Wanderers were going to get dropped though, because I definitely think if anything GHB2.0 has shown that Wanderers, Brayherds, Darkling Covens, etc. aren't going anywhere, and that's awesome IMHO. I think Wanderers and Darkling Covens have a great potential and tons of character.

What I would like to see is some background for them though so we can get an idea of where they fit in the Realms and the intricacies of their societies, rather than just using our imaginations (as fun as that is though!).

[Runicmadhamster]

48 minutes ago, Origin said:

Couldn't agree more GH17 was great for us. The army feels and plays very differently and gives me options I never had, even if we did lose the compendium scrolls. But that was always going to happen, eventually. 

Yeah, it was sad to see Wardancers and Waywatchers go (and Orion, who i used every now and then because he had a good model, and not half bad rules), but what we got  made for what we lost.

[Runicmadhamster]

Out of interest, what if any allies are people using?

I currently have a Dragonlord from the Order Draconis in my list. He acts as my problem solver, if there is a unit too tough for my Wanderer's to crack, i send in the Dragonlord to, solve the problem.

[Yeled]

4 hours ago, Aezeal said:

No need to be a s rptic to think that, it's an obvious strategy, not dropped but hardly really supported. .. GW subtly saying.. Just open your wallet and buy a shiny new army with all the abilities etc to be competitive. Mind you.. I don't blame gw, just not happy about it. I actually fear they wont expand on my Sylvaneth anymore either. I mean they have a book but really in terms of units they only have a few models.. and so much potential in my dreams... Wardroth cavalry.

Unfortunately I bought my Wanderers army about a year ago, so they got my money even without it being shiny and new. I like them but I don't think I'll ever make that mistake again in terms of buying an unsupported army.

I'm sure they know what they are doing, but their strategy has me hesitating to buy any new figures at all at this point. I was going to do a Dark Elf army, too, but ultimately I decided not to buy another legacy army. If I thought Wanderers or Darkling Covens or Daughters of Khaine might get a little love (doesn't have to be entirely new lines...just a token model and warscroll update from time to time), I'd probably keep collecting on an ongoing basis. But since I think they won't, I'm not investing anything until I see what direction the wind blows.

Same thing with 40k. My sons are interested, but I'm not buying anything that isn't a main army going forward. Eldar? No way. Not until I see a major update.

Your point about Sylvaneth is interesting, though. It's a new army but you are right that it might not really be much more supported than other factions going forward. I guess it pays to collect Stormcast and Space Marines. Everything else is risky. It would be nice if they would support other factions with a model here or there. 

47 minutes ago, Runicmadhamster said:

Out of interest, what if any allies are people using?

I currently have a Dragonlord from the Order Draconis in my list. He acts as my problem solver, if there is a unit too tough for my Wanderer's to crack, i send in the Dragonlord to, solve the problem.

Right now I've got small allied forces of Order Draconis (heavy cavalry if I need to punch something), Swifthawk Agents (cavarly archers for more range and skirmishing), and Sylvaneth (treelord ancient who can summon cover even if it is dangerous). That said, I can't say I really got them because they are strategic. I just kinda bought them for thematic purposes.

[Runicmadhamster]

1 minute ago, Yeled said:

Right now I've got small allied forces of Ordo Draconis (heavy cavalry if I need to punch something), Swifthawk Agents (cavarly archers for more range and skirmishing), and Sylvaneth (treelord ancient who can summon cover even if it is dangerous). That said, I can't say I really got them because they are strategic. I just kinda bought them for thematic purposes.

Order Draconis is where i would go for Heavy cav as well. I thought about using Durthu, or Drycha, as my big, hitty problem solver unit, but the Dragonlord was a bit more survivable, and the rider and shooting attacks didnt get worse the more damage the unit took.

[Yeled]

1 minute ago, Runicmadhamster said:

Order Draconis is where i would go for Heavy cav as well. I thought about using Durthu, or Drycha, as my big, hitty problem solver unit, but the Dragonlord was a bit more survivable, and the rider and shooting attacks didnt get worse the more damage the unit took.

Oh, and I have some Kurnoth hunters I used to use as well. When I was using  a gunline army I thought having the heavy archers as artillery would be worthwhile. So a unit of Kurnoth archers and a second unit of kurnoth scythes (to stand behind the EG) was a major part of my strategy. Now that we have faction allegiance abilities I'm not sure it's worthwhile having too many units that don't teleport. I've not actually played much since GH2017 came out so I've yet to figure out how to work allies into the new paradigm.

[Runicmadhamster]

6 minutes ago, Yeled said:

Oh, and I have some Kurnoth hunters I used to use as well. When I was using  a gunline army I thought having the heavy archers as artillery would be worthwhile. So a unit of Kurnoth archers and a second unit of kurnoth scythes (to stand behind the EG) was a major part of my strategy. Now that we have faction allegiance abilities I'm not sure it's worthwhile having too many units that don't teleport. I've not actually played much since GH2017 came out so I've yet to figure out how to work allies into the new paradigm.

I never liked the Kurnoth Archers, the 4+ to hit and low number of shots meant i never warmed to them.

Though, i can still see a place for the Swords and Scythes in a Wanderer's army. I have found that, aside from the WWR, the army lacks punchy combat units. EG are nice once they plant they spears, but that takes a turn to set up.

[Tidings]

1 hour ago, Yeled said:

Oh, and I have some Kurnoth hunters I used to use as well. When I was using  a gunline army I thought having the heavy archers as artillery would be worthwhile. So a unit of Kurnoth archers and a second unit of kurnoth scythes (to stand behind the EG) was a major part of my strategy. Now that we have faction allegiance abilities I'm not sure it's worthwhile having too many units that don't teleport. I've not actually played much since GH2017 came out so I've yet to figure out how to work allies into the new paradigm.

If you aren't planning on making full use of the teleport, then you may as well go Mixed Order. The benefits of getting better units and things like a hurricanum are huge. That's my problem with the Wanderer allegiance, it's waaaaaay too much of a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong it's great fun and all, but I think overall Wanderers got nerfed. The loss of the keyword on half our roster hurt more than the extremely focused playstyle our allegiance grants us helps. Maybe once they get around to redesigning the mechanics that clash with teleporting (EG, SotW, Waywatchers standing still) we'll be a bit better. But they'd also need to add units to our rosters again and make our archers better to compensate for our very 'meh' cavalry and melee. 

 

55 minutes ago, Runicmadhamster said:

I never liked the Kurnoth Archers, the 4+ to hit and low number of shots meant i never warmed to them.

Though, i can still see a place for the Swords and Scythes in a Wanderer's army. I have found that, aside from the WWR, the army lacks punchy combat units. EG are nice once they plant they spears, but that takes a turn to set up.

Same, people complained about them a lot and now I see very little point to take bow hunters. They just aren't worth 220 points at a 4 to hit. The scythes and swords still are though. 

[Runicmadhamster]

1 minute ago, Tidings said:

If you aren't planning on making full use of the teleport, then you may as well go Mixed Order. The benefits of getting better units and things like a hurricanum are huge. That's my problem with the Wanderer allegiance, it's waaaaaay too much of a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong it's great fun and all, but I think overall Wanderers got nerfed. The loss of the keyword on half our roster hurt more than the extremely focused playstyle our allegiance grants us helps. Maybe once they get around to redesigning the mechanics that clash with teleporting (EG, SotW, Waywatchers standing still) we'll be a bit better. But they'd also need to add units to our rosters again and make our archers better to compensate for our very 'meh' cavalry and melee.

I agree that loosing our Compendium units didn't help, but i do think the GHBv2 was a good thing for Wanderers.  Units that are 6 inches from a board edge can move at least 48 inches (along the short board edge) and up to 72 (on the long edge). When used with the Stalker of the Hidden paths command trait, these gives a huge amount of mobility, way more than we had before.  It also means the potential range of our GG, Waywatchers and even SoW is now massive.

That being said, i am singing the army's praises having only played two games with them. It may well be that a few months down the line, after things have had time to settle, that i may not be so optimistic.

I really do hope that long term, the army is now more competitive. I loved the old Wood Elves, and want to have the Wanderers as my main AoS army. I guess only time will tell at this point, but i am hopeful.

[Yeled]

9 minutes ago, Tidings said:

If you aren't planning on making full use of the teleport, then you may as well go Mixed Order. The benefits of getting better units and things like a hurricanum are huge. That's my problem with the Wanderer allegiance, it's waaaaaay too much of a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong it's great fun and all, but I think overall Wanderers got nerfed. The loss of the keyword on half our roster hurt more than the extremely focused playstyle our allegiance grants us helps. Maybe once they get around to redesigning the mechanics that clash with teleporting (EG, SotW, Waywatchers standing still) we'll be a bit better. But they'd also need to add units to our rosters again and make our archers better to compensate for our very 'meh' cavalry and melee. 

 

Same, people complained about them a lot and now I see very little point to take bow hunters. They just aren't worth 220 points at a 4 to hit. The scythes and swords still are though. 

I think I am planning to make full use of teleport. Yes, it's a one trick pony. But it's a great trick and one that finally makes the Wanderers worth playing. I'm not sure it's good enough to win all the time but it puts Wanderers in control of a lot of what happens on the battlefield, and that's pretty awesome. Ultimately it's hard to say Wanderers got nerfed when we can still play them as an Order allegiance exactly as we played them before, including using the compendium units. It's just now if we use the allegiance ability we have a new trick at the cost of versatility and unit selection.

As for Kurnoth archers, I used them to give me that extra range. Sometimes it's the threat of damage more than the damage itself that is important. Plus range with a rend is always good. Most people I talked to locally found the Kurnoth archers more dangerous than the close combat versions, but that could be when they are in numbers. The points raise does hurt them, though.

[Tidings]

If you're going to make full use of the teleporting, then skip allies for the most part! The teleporting is awesome for creating 2000 points vs 500 points type scenarios, which is both fluffy and tactically fantastic. I've played 4 games with it so far and I've found it to be both fun and somewhat competitive. You can pressure objectives pretty hard just by being able to cross the table like it's nothing. This forces your opponent to leave larger portions of his army guarding his objectives, which you can still defeat pretty easily.

My opponents have all found it pretty terrifying so far since they feel like nothing is safe, which is exactly how the victims of a Wood Elf ambush should feel!

Instead of taking Kurnoths, just take Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike bows. Much better stats - more of the points go to their offensive ability than with Hunters, where you are paying for melee abilities and 15 wounds. 

[Aezeal]

7 hours ago, Tidings said:

That's my problem with the Wanderer allegiance, it's waaaaaay too much of a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong it's great fun and all, but I think overall Wanderers got nerfed

I think we are a one trick pony but it wasn't a nerve, wanderers where nothing in ghb 1, now they at least he this one trick.

Kurnoths with bows don't need to teleport I can see them as viable allies

[WABBIT]

Wanderers did get nerfed. No one wants to play against Kunnin Ruk and as a result no one wants to play Kunnin Ruk, being a one trick shooting army that hard to pin down is frustrating for your opponent and they will soon tire of playing against wanderers just like they do Kunnin Ruk. I don't want our only trick to be shooting an enemy off the table. We have some awesome combat models and GW should give us decent war scrolls/points values for them to make them viable options. Why they didn't give us a wild hunt battalion option or a Eternal Glade Guard Gun line battalion option and smaller battalions we can actually afford so we can get more items on our weak heroes is beyond me and so easy for GW to do. We will have to do it ourselves and hope our opponents are charitable enough to let us use them. They stack up ok vs other compendium armies but not the new stuff so they need a 2nd rule set for fighting SCE, Sylvaneth, Chaos, Beast Claw etc..

Wanderers should be able to hide in terrain and charge out surprising opponents that come near with hit and run attacks (not just shooting!) May be add a free javelin attack in charge phase to give them an extra early punch? 

Melt away is pointless as it's only useful for shooters and the whole unit is likely to be dead before it can "Melt away" as the defensive stats for archers is terrible. Battleshock will finish what combat started. Its an ability that, while cool and in keeping with wanderer theme, is a wasted ability as it assumes the worst and your archers are lost. It would have helped far more if wanderers were given an ability that enhanced their chances of causing damage or resisting it. This is destruction armies are so much better i AoS they have all 3 boxes ticked - movement, toughness and punch. Wanderers only get movement and we're not even super great at that.

Movement is not much of a buff if all it does is get your troops killed faster than before. Units are easy to catch in this high speed low range AoS game. AoS is simply not a game for finesse armies like Aelves. We cannot keep our enemy at range while we maneuver about focusing our combat power or weakening them arrows because it's a 6 turn game which is often over by turn 3 and focuses on objective taking and holding to win. AoS is almost designed to be anti Aelf  We lost higher than average stats in AoS and most importantly we lost initiative and kept the high points values! These are the biggest problem for Aelves and I look forward to seeing how GW tackle it in the new rumoured Aelf battletome.

GW is doing a great job with the community team but it's upsetting a lot of fans and hobbyists when after years of hard work collecting and painting our armies we are forced away from using them because GW doesn't give us decent rules.

Both Seraphon and Sylvaneth tomes have multiple factions within them so don't be surprised if all the Aelf allegiances are tied together in some way ion the new Aelf tome. I hope we don't get the same treatment as the dispossessed and have all our latest models ignored for a brand new re-branded aelf aesthetic. New models are great but really we have enough now. I own hundreds of the buggers and i have no more space!  

[WABBIT]

8 hours ago, Tidings said:

Same, people complained about them a lot and now I see very little point to take bow hunters. They just aren't worth 220 points at a 4 to hit. The scythes and swords still are though. 

I agree but they aren't as bad as 4+ to hit. There are only 6 shots per unit but the champion means 2 are 3+ to hit and 4 are 4+ to hit. That champion makes all the difference in making Hunters with bows acceptable. They have performed ok in my games, mixed results really but their true worth for me was the threat they presented far out weighed their actually damage output. On paper they look terrifying and people complained far too much about them. a 20pt increase is fine but 40pts was an overreaction.

They should nerf the far more ridiculous Beast claw raiders and Savage orruks with bows. They didn't go far enough with that. for starters Savage orruck are about frenzied combat not Zen archery - 7 shots a turn is not only stupidly over doing it but its that kind of ability that older players hear about and think Nah I don't think I will go back to AoS. It's totally against Savage Orruk theme to have archers let alone super machine gunners and Orruck players I know are not happy with it. 

I must sound like a right whiner but I own 5 armies all of them very large 4-500 models each - Dark Aelf, Wood Aelf, High Aelf, Seraphon and Sylvaneth. 4 of them are or have been rubbish for two years and I am a wood elf player at heart so its frustrating not to be able to play my fav army in a competitive way for so many years. So GW if you're reading this Come on sort it out!  Don't make me buy Kings of war!

[Yeled]

22 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

 

I must sound like a right whiner but I own 5 armies all of them very large 4-500 models each - Dark Aelf, Wood Aelf, High Aelf, Seraphon and Sylvaneth. 4 of them are or have been rubbish for two years and I am a wood elf player at heart so its frustrating not to be able to play my fav army in a competitive way for so many years. So GW if you're reading this Come on sort it out!  Don't make me buy Kings of war!

I hear your pain. With that last thought in mind, do you have anything to add to the unit by unit comments I posted in the wishlist thread? I'm about ready to post it to the first post, but if people have more comments I'll wait.

After that I'll tackle existing heroes before moving on to a wishlist of potential new units.

[WABBIT]

1 hour ago, Yeled said:

I hear your pain. With that last thought in mind, do you have anything to add to the unit by unit comments I posted in the wishlist thread? I'm about ready to post it to the first post, but if people have more comments I'll wait.

After that I'll tackle existing heroes before moving on to a wishlist of potential new units.

Thanks for doing that By the way it looks great. Nice to use as a basis to discuss changes with local groups to fix wanderers for future friendly games. I doubt GW will adopt any changes we propose but it's only right we try to convince them Wanderers are worth saving. My Wallet and time has earned it

I'll take another look later but what I read before sounds good. No need to increase movement on Wild riders just make them hit harder, GG need to be smaller units of 10-20 with 3+ to hit and less points for a one shot ability. WWR need to be 140pts or change it to D3 Mortal wounds on a 6 to hit vs ALL as they still have less armour. SotW need to move and fire twice and reduce price, That kind of thing.

[DantePQ]

Ok so I've made this army to have some fun, also as I got majority of minis all I need to buy are Wild Riders any thoughts 

 

Waystone Pathfinders Battalion 

Nomad Prince + Stalker of the Hidden Paths + Viridescent Shawl 

Spellweaver + Heartwood Staff + Forget-me-knot 

3xWaywatcher 

20 Eternal Guards 

10 Eternal Guards

20 Glade Guards 

20 Sisters of the Watch 

5 Sisters of the thorn 

5 Wild Riders 

1980. 

 

I guess it looks like a ton of fun 

[Yeled]

23 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Ok so I've made this army to have some fun, also as I got majority of minis all I need to buy are Wild Riders any thoughts 

 

Waystone Pathfinders Battalion 

Nomad Prince + Stalker of the Hidden Paths + Viridescent Shawl 

Spellweaver + Heartwood Staff + Forget-me-knot 

3xWaywatcher 

20 Eternal Guards 

10 Eternal Guards

20 Glade Guards 

20 Sisters of the Watch 

5 Sisters of the thorn 

5 Wild Riders 

1980. 

 

I guess it looks like a ton of fun 

It looks good except, technically, the waywatchers may break your Wanderer allegiance since they don't count as Wanderers or as an allied unit, either. If the group you're playing with lets you use the old warscroll for waywatchers you should be fine. If not, consider turning the waywatchers into a waywatcher lord. He's 20 pts more, gets as many shots as the 3x waywatchers, hits better, and has more wounds. So really it's an upgrade.

The other thing you might try is turning 10 of the Sisters of the Watch into 20 glade guard or 10 more glade guard and 10 more Eternal guard for your second unit. GG get that boost when they are up above 20 models so having larger units of them is better, and EG need to survive being hit (and can attack from the second row), so again large units are good. Even so, I might try it as you have it and see how it goes.

[Tidings]

It's the mandatory 3x Waywatcher Lords for the Waystone Pathfinder battalion, not the old Waywatchers.

[WABBIT]

Just now, Yeled said:

It looks good except, technically, the waywatchers may break your Wanderer allegiance since they don't count as Wanderers or as an allied unit, either. If the group you're playing with let's you use the old warscroll for waywatchers you should be fine. If not, consider turning the waywatchers into a waywatcher lord. He's 20 pts more, gets as many shots as the 3x waywatchers, hits better, and has more wounds. So really it's an upgrade.

The other thing you might try is turning 10 of the Sisters of the Watch into 20 glade guard or 10 more glade guard and 10 more Eternal guard for your second unit. GG get that boost when they are up above 20 models so having larger units of them is better, and EG need to survive being hit (and can attack from the second row), so again large units are good. Even so, I might try it as you have it and see how it goes.

Actually the old war scroll is 5 Waywatchers and it has the wanderer keyword so it's better than GHB2016. Remember the FAQ says you can use the old war scrolls if you wish and pay the new points so Waywatchers got a lot better  If your opponents don't want to face a decent wanderer army they may refuse to allow you to play old scrolls but that's poor play by them if they do. Compendium armies need all the help they can get vs anything new.