Shadespire Demo Game!!!

[Gaz Taylor]

@childoffang - can you write a few words about your thoughts on it or is it (a) something you are going to mention in your podcast, or (b) It's simple to pick up and pretty cool like you've already said  

[Jeff Egan]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:52 AM, Durant said:

Can you tell us more on the list building, in the video Khorne has 5 models (all that come with the box I think) and Stormcast have 3 models (also the ones form the box). There are more cards, models, you can take less for some benefit?

As I understand it, you build your group of models and build your deck of cards before rolling up to the table. My sense is that they will make rules for more models for each force, which you might swap in to your group. The demo game was played with the starter set, but there will be loads of expansions I bet.

[childoffang]

[mention=351]childoffang[/mention] - can you write a few words about your thoughts on it or is it (a) something you are going to mention in your podcast, or (b) It's simple to pick up and pretty cool like you've already said [emoji6] 

I did write out a reply but I may not have confirmed it.

I do talk about it on the latest episode of The Imperial Truth in the news section.

It's very simple. Each turn appears to consist of 4 activations with no restriction on activating the same model each time. Models can move, attack or charge on each activation though if a model charges it cannot move again in that turn.

Rolling to hit means finding either a hammer or sword symbol on your weapon profile (there maybe more than one weapon or way of fighting) and then rolling a number of white dice equal to the number shown over the attack symbol. If it's a sword then each sword symbol you roll gives you a hit, same for hammers. Iirc there is one more sword than hammer on the dice, there is also a crit symbol which works as a hit.

The defender then rolls black dice equal to the number shown on either the shield or evasion symbol (a swooshing arrow) and compares to the hit rolls. If it's less then you take the weapon damage. Crits work for defence as well and again iirc are the only way to stop a crit hit.

After the activation comes the card phase where players can play cards out of their hand in turn until there are 2 passes. Then the activation passes to the opponent. After 4 activations each the turn ends and initiative is rolled (I think) and hands are redrawn.

That is the game in essence, the cards bring more complexity, the board can add in areas of restricted movement and the weapons work differently plus the ability to 'power up your dudes' and flip the card for improved stats (all the Stormcast had to do was save damage once!!) which will all add together to keep the game fresh and challenging.

3 activations in and I had the mechanics down with only asking questions about specific interactions or card terms. Anyone who has played a modern board game should get into it very quickly.


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[Killax]

Im going to be brutally honest with my opinion and say:

1. I think Shadespire is a very cool and deep boardgame

2. I don't think Shadespire is very easily community driven

Both 1 and 2 are very different from the scene and my initial wish for Shadespire actually was to have it be simpler as it is, while having that competative depth. For example I really like the low ammount of mini's, decks for actions and objectives and even the special dice are something I could get used to... My biggest concern however is how much this all stacks up into it being a game that frankly speaking thakes up the same ammount of space in your gaming bag as 1K of Age of Sigmar models. While this initially might sound odd, the way the counters work and more or less requires in my opinion adds to much of a mixed medium to the game. In essence I think it's very much akin to how FFG promotes and designs their games but when you look at their succes (X-wing) you also see less stuff truely required as Shadespire. 

What I hope is that I'm wrong and that the miniatures and expansions will lead me to another way. The current feeling I have is that the 4 activations more logically will draw you towards 4 models per player being great but maby GW will dance around that by purposefully not making such sets...

All in all it's very early to draw conclusions but easy to play, easy to understand and easy to pick up are the 3 essential things I can't find in Shadespire.
It's relatively easy to learn and play but you do require that starter set because of dice and templates (and such, like Blood Bowl). It has a great depth but doesn't 'learn' as easily as AoS (I feel) because you don't have your typical D6 to work with and once again the essence comes completely out of a starter set so you need a buddy to play with and if you don't you basically all want/need a starter set.

My hope for Shadespire was:
- Every faction has it's own tile
- Every faction has it's own deck
- Every faction has it's own miniatures
- Regular D6 system
Which would have simply said boiled down to a lower cost step-in game as AoS but likely ended up being pricy in the sence that you'd want character X and Y to supplement the game. This all still might happen but it isn't how the game starts out, or so it seems.

Boardgames are awesome but not always more practicle as an miniatures army game if you need to bring a lot of stuff that can only come out of the starter. 

Cheers,

[childoffang]

If you are going to play the force you have chosen then you only need to take the models you wish to use which could probably fit within the base set box (certainly not anything large) The boards are smaller than my laptop once closed, there are tokens but this is nowhere near FFG levels and there are a small handful of dice. If you have a slim line miniature carrying solution it would fit in a laptop bag easily. 

I don't seeing needing the core set as being something that stops the game from being easy to play. Wargames need a tape measure and dice (usually) plus a 3'x3' or larger board. You can buy this box, break it open, put models together and play on a coffee table. There are't many easier games. You compare it to X-wing but in x-wing you need a 3x3 playing are or be able to define one, movement templates, specialist dice, specialist counters of various kinds and in the stater set you get 3 ships which no one really plays - Most people who enjoy X-wing go and buy their own starter set to get their own templates etc so I'm not sure there is a huge amount of difference. What you may well find is the starter set minus the models on sale as AoS players get the models to use in their games.

As for learning there is no +/- to dice rolls - it's literally how many hammers/swords etc do i roll. All you have to do is count - again I don't see how that is anything but easy. Because there are attack an defense dice the results really only mean 1 thing so it's not like there can be confusion on the result of a die roll.

Again with the buddy thing, I need an opponent for all my 2 player games. If i am going to play any game of a similar size I am going to have to pay out an amount to do so and when talking about buying x or y character to supplement the game then FFG really go to town on this with X-wing (and most of their games -- particularly Imperial Assault). I reckon this starter set will be pretty close to most of those prices. 

 

That's my feel from sitting down with the stuff. It feels like it fits somewhere between Magic and X-wing. Now which side of which is variable on whether you are talking about ease, cost, space etc..

[Killax]

Thanks for your fast reply! All I can do is wait and see, I'll pick up a box regardless as I love the 5 Bloodreaver models that come with it.

For the game itself I think it's simply said too much mixed media. While you do need additional stuff for AoS aswell the easy to play is much lower as with Shadespire. Free app, free rules and all that. In addition common D6 can be plucked from every boardgame, where the medium needed to play Shadespire is very Shadespire exclusive. 

Mind you I had the same issue with scatterdice in WFB, it just adds another level of medium that doesn't need to be there in the first place.

[Rhellion]

On 3/25/2017 at 0:40 AM, Ben Johnson said:

Was anyone here at Adepticon? Did I demo you a game on Wednesday night, if so let e know what you thought. 

Specifically about the game, your demo skillz, or both???

 

I really enjoyed the game. I took me all of 30 seconds to see a cool interaction with an ability card and a assisted attack (charge) with a third model. I was hooked. Maybe it was your demo style but I found the game very quick to pick up using what I assume is introductory rules, and obviously pre built decks.

I am super excited to see new factions. Is there ANY word we are allowed to be told on mixing factions? Like the current Grand Alliances (mixing Aelves and Stormcast for example).

Any word on when we will have information on deck building or crew building systems?

 

[domus]

On 3/24/2017 at 11:40 PM, Ben Johnson said:

Was anyone here at Adepticon? Did I demo you a game on Wednesday night, if so let e know what you thought. 

I missed Wednesday sadly.  Tried real hard to get a super secret showing but it wasn't in the cards.  Can't wait to try it though.

[Lord Cedric]

I know there have been several pics already released on this, but for those interested, here are mine that I took Wednesday night at Adepticon:



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[Coganaut]

This game looks really fun! Can't wait for the release now. I agree that it's like x-wing but different.

[Blutsteigen]

The deck building aspect will appeal to my card playing friends, and the ease-of-entry to those in my gaming circle that have held back from AoS or 40K.  Looks well done. I'm eager to start.

[Killax]

Still very eager to get it aswell, almost considered starting my own topic on it but since I don't have the actual product Im still working with different online reviews of the game. As before the prime thing that excites me here is the mixed medium approach of boardgame, miniature game and cardgame elements. What it should allow for is a game that is roughly 70/30 in tactical approaches and luck, this is really cool as most choices are tactical but dice rolls and cards drawn still make it accesable and the rules seem very easy to learn.

So far a couple of the most clear and interesting reviews Ive found are from MiniatureWarGaming, Mengel Miniatures and War of Sigmar.

Certain things I'd love to know is the following, so maby some who own it can awnser it?
1. Have players allready tested the game with the short side of the board against an oppossing broad side? To me it seems this could work into advantage of smaller Warbands as there is less room to totally surround the opponent  
2. Do Matched play games have an alternate phase system? For example does it have anything like MtG where there is an option to play cards before moving models and after? (Main phases idea)
3. Do Matched play games also include that when you damage a model you can push it one hexagon? I recall reading this somehwere for a demo...
4. Do you feel this is the type of game that's ideal to play as best of three per round in a Tournament setting? (like MtG)

All in all War of Sigmar has covered practically every rule for the game and again I think the designers have really created indeed something that feels great level game design, something we are used to getting from FFG but also WotC. Not that GW doesn't design it's games well but it is now entering an area with less complicated rules (though honestly for the better because as with practically all games, the more moving pieces, the more fluent the rules should work). 

Cheers,

[childoffang]

1, Haven’t seen much played with the board layout changing too much, I think there is plenty to learn with the basics before exploring that side of thing so it will happen but just so Mich already to discover,

2, each turn goes - Player 1 activation, power phase, Plaer 2 activation, power phase... all the way through 4 activations and a final power phase. With each player able to play cards in the activation phase. Remembering that cards that affect the next activation will affect which ever play is activating next.

3, The base attacking rules state that if you draw (but with the attacker scoring at least one success) or the attacker wins then they may choose to push the defending model back 1 hex (or more with knockback).

4, The system is based around playing best of 3.

[Killax]

54 minutes ago, childoffang said:

1, Haven’t seen much played with the board layout changing too much, I think there is plenty to learn with the basics before exploring that side of thing so it will happen but just so Mich already to discover,

2, each turn goes - Player 1 activation, power phase, Plaer 2 activation, power phase... all the way through 4 activations and a final power phase. With each player able to play cards in the activation phase. Remembering that cards that affect the next activation will affect which ever play is activating next.

Thanks yeah later that day found War of Sigmar covering the rules for the game.

From my perspective I think a flipped board can be very interesting for smaller Warbands, as I feel that both Orks and Stormcast are fantastic for 1 vs 1 battles and each option to being swarmed less (by virtue or presenting less functional board space) should work in their advantage. Which in many cases is only fair considering the output and tactical flexability of larger Warbands is indeed better. 

Would also love to test the game with an window for playing cards before the Action phase. By large because two main phases in MtG is so fun because it adds another layer of strategy. It will certainly draw out the game some more but overall I'm just eager to test it. I think the functionality of several cards that push that way are also increased, as a push after the Action also means that the opponent has the option to play around it. It's interesting subgames that's for sure.

Cheers,

[childoffang]

But there is a chance to play cards before your actions (except the first), each player can play cards in each power phase. I feel like it balances going first in the turn by not being able to play a card before you get to activate anything.

[Killax]

20 minutes ago, childoffang said:

But there is a chance to play cards before your actions (except the first), each player can play cards in each power phase. I feel like it balances going first in the turn by not being able to play a card before you get to activate anything.

Ah see, yeah as before, I can only wait to have the rules. All in all both options seem good to me. The thing with best of three play is that both players will at least have the option to start the game once, so even here the unbalance can be rectified in the other game...

*Assumming the loser of the initial game gets to decide which player will start the second game, like with MtG and many other best of three games. 

In any case what I like about the current Shadespire concept is that there are a lot of cards who don't need resource X in order to be played. For sure there are also some who do but if you keep resources outside of the game the chance of snowballing wins is reduced. In that same vein I also loved Conquest LCG (by FFG) but the downside of it was that it was very suseptable to snowballing during the later turns. Mistakes made in the early game came back to haunt you throughout the game.

Shadespire obviously punishes early game mistakes aswell but because each game only lasts 3 turns the mistake is much harder to drag out into long, time consuming games that are a typical 'sub game' in many cardgames like MtG or even Pokemon tcg, where if your ahead in the game it rewards itself even more by playing slowly. There is no giant reason to play slowly in Shadespire and dragging out a win cannot last longer as 3 turns, which is excellent and actually quite rare design for many games.

[childoffang]

Who goes First is based on a dice roll, 4 dice each looking for crits 1/6 chance. Who ever finishes  deploying first gets +1 crit Winner chooses who goes first.

 

So if it’s stormcast vs Undead the Storm cast are gonna be getting +1 each game against them. 

 

Following that you roll each turn with no one getting any bonuses.

 

I think its it’s a decent balancing mechanic, numbers could certainly be an advantage but activating first means you can’t play cards before your turn.