Turragor Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 So I thought it'd be interesting to poll two final list candidates for the next event I am going to! I like the idea of both of these lists for different reasons and think they'll each do a bit better against various kinds of lists. They are not super hard or perfectly sculpted but given the models at hand I think they are decent options. Vote for your own favourite choice! And feel free to leave feedback. Suggested tweaks to each list are welcome (for example I am undecided on 5 decimators v 5 more retributors in list 1 and am not sure about the gryph hound in list 1) but I am pretty satisfied with each! Here are the lists: 1. Single Drop Celestial Vindicators Warrior Chamber List Quote Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersLord Castellant (100)- General- Mystic Light: Lantern of the TempestLord Relictor (80)- Artefact: Mirrorshield - Prayer: Lightning ChariotLord Celestant On Dracoth (220)- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield- Artefact: Mirrorshield - Dracoth Trait: Drake-kinBattleline5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bow5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bow5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x GrandhammersUnits3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)5 x Paladin Retributors (220)- 2x Starsoul Mace5 x Paladin Protectors (200)- 2x Starsoul Mace5 x Paladin Decimators (200)- 2x Starsoul Mace2 x Tempestors (240)1 x Gryph-Hound (40)BattalionsHammerstrike Force (120)Celestial Vindicators Warrior Chamber (80)Total: 2000/2000 2. Multi-drop "More Bodies" Thunderhead / Hammerstrike List Quote Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersLord Celestant On Dracoth (220)- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield- Artefact: Mirrorshield - Dracoth Trait: Drake-kinLord Castellant (100)- General- Trait: Staunch Defender - Stormcast Eternals- Mystic Light: Lantern of the TempestLord Relictor (80)- Artefact: Mirrorshield - Prayer: Lightning ChariotBattleline5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bow5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bow5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandblades5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x Grandhammers5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield- 1x GrandhammersUnits3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)- 1x Stormsurge Trident5 x Paladin Retributors (220)- 2x Starsoul Mace5 x Paladin Protectors (200)- 2x Starsoul Mace2 x Tempestors (240)BattalionsHammerstrike Force (120)Thunderhead Brotherhood (80)Total: 1960/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 I guess a note on the main strength and weakness of each is handy: List 1 Biggest strength = single drop. With scions this is super handy. I'll mostly decide who goes first and can (risk) deploying in the skies as I wish. Biggest weakness = lower body count for objectives. It's a real waste if some paladins have to sit on an objective. List 2 Biggest strength = extra liberators (perfect for holding objectives). Biggest weakness = multiple drops (6 plus the last 40 pts if I take a gryph hound). Risking a defensive opponent deployment with me being granted turn 1 and having to roll for scion drops into defensive positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veillotron Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 So, still no Stardrake in the list?? Re your question, I would go for option 2 - I prefer having more bodies to the advantage of a single drop. I would swap the Decimators for Retributors - better value for money in my book. If possible, I would swap the Tempestors for Fulminators - they are tankier against shooting armies and have a higher damage output... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Veillotron said: So, still no Stardrake in the list?? Re your question, I would go for option 2 - I prefer having more bodies to the advantage of a single drop. I would swap the Decimators for Retributors - better value for money in my book. If possible, I would swap the Tempestors for Fulminators - they are tankier against shooting armies and have a higher damage output... Maybe I'll throw reason in the air and take the stardrake in the end! haha In reality I think I'll be taking him in a vanguard wing list and I need to paint more prosecutors than I have the willpower too before the event in order to do so. Take rets instead of decimators in the first list you mean? I could take 2 x 5 rets in the 2nd list too but I like protectors in there. The tempestors are definitely a strange choice compared to fulminators at first glance but I like the -1 to hit a lot. I also don't need to worry about them making their charge when they come down with scions (which I like to do). Fulminators often fluff the 9. They also fall far down the threat list of other players as far as my experience shows. So they can sneak about until the opponent has had enough by which time they've earned their points. Fulminators are often top targets. Still, I am considering taking them instead. They are definitely strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veillotron Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Turragor said: Take rets instead of decimators in the first list you mean? I could take 2 x 5 rets in the 2nd list too but I like protectors in there. Yes, sorry I wasn't clear - in the case you go for option 1... I like the protectors in option 2 5 minutes ago, Turragor said: but I like the -1 to hit a lot. They also fall far down the threat list of other players as far as my experience shows. So they can sneak about until the opponent has had enough by which time they've earned their points. Fulminators are often top targets. Interesting feedback, and valid point re the -1 to hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Veillotron said: Yes, sorry I wasn't clear - in the case you go for option 1... I like the protectors in option 2 Interesting feedback, and valid point re the -1 to hit... When I am up against a tough enemy unit I like to try to get the relictor lightning storm and tempestors debuff on at once, -2 is nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aquillor Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I like list one given the ability to one drop and it is very similar to my 2k list I have been working on. Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals Leaders Lord Relictor (80) - Artefact : Mirrorshield - Prayer : Lightning Chariot Lord Celestant (100) - General - Command Trait : Staunch Defender - Stormcast Eternals - Artefact : Spellshield Lord Castellant (100) - Artefact : Strife Ender Units 5 x Paladin Protectors (200) - 2 x Starsoul Mace 5 x Paladin Protectors (200) - 2 x Starsoul Mace 5 x Paladin Decimators (200) - 2 x Starsoul Mace 6 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (160) -2 x Stormsurge Trident 5 x Liberators (100) - Warblade & Shield - 1 x Grandblades 5 x Judicators (160) - Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bow 5 x Judicators (160) - Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bow 3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180) 3 x Aetherwings (60) 3 x Aetherwings (60) 1 x Gryph-Hound (40) Battalions Celestial Vindicators Warrior Chamber (80) Hammerstrike Force (120) Total: 2000/2000 Leaders: 3/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 0/4 Artillery: 0/4 This is my version of the 2k Celestial vindicators. Basically the same concept as yours just more focus on weapons that get the bonus from CVWC battalion. General setup is throwing the Castellant forward with lightning chariot to buff Paladins from Hammerstrike. Then the Paladins tarpit the problem units while the Judicators, Raptors and Prosecutors focus them down at range. Lord Relictor helps position surviving paladins as needed via chariot. The two screens of Aetherwings and Liberators provide models for objectives as well as screens/buffers for the gunline as needed. Gryph hound is a point filler and watch dog for gunline vs summons/flanks/scions/pursuit. Esentially, if they want to get to the gunline traditionally, they will have to run through prosecutors, then a unit of liberators with buffed saves and rerolling 1s, then a unit of aetherwings, then another unit of aetherwings, then they can finally get to them. I'd appreciate any questions/comments/feedback on this list as well, but my vote is still list one for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 49 minutes ago, Lord Aquillor said: Basically the same concept as yours just more focus on weapons that get the bonus from CVWC battalion. Yes that's the thing with my list, I have not modelled blades on mine (I prefer the 4s and 3s of hammers) so I miss out on a decent bonus from the list. I'm really just taking it for the single drop then. With that in mind the thunderhead megabattalions might fit better but I've looked at those and I've no models for the extra jud or lib units for Anvils of heldenhammer or hammers of sigmar. Not this time. I think hammers of sigmar is good going forward (maybe even sparing 100 reserve points for surprise libs, but the ward save and bravery bonus is more important). Howver, if I want to keep hammerstrike with those formations I have to sacrifice the dracothian guard. I looked at the lords of the storm megabattalions too but think that's too many heroes. I really liked the knights excelsior list (take 3x5 paladins, reroll 1s on all, reroll 1s and 2s on shields? Yes please) BUT there is no way to quickly deliver the paladins with certainty (like hammerstrike). For your... list I guess I really like it. At first glance most want to tell you to forget longstrikes x 3. In a sense they are right but with 2x3 aetherwings your shooting backline is really secured for a turn or two with the charge blocking technique. You can't take aetherwings alone and get that benefit. I like 6 prosecutors myself, maybe I can paint 4.5 instread of the 1.5 I need for 3. I plan on scions and paladin drop direct but 6 is great for running interference after. With 6 you can also drop 1 x 5 or 2 x 5 paladins and leave 1 or 2 in reserve keeping them a potential risk for longer. You could even use that as a bit of bait, drop 2 units of paladins and then put the lantern on the prosecutors, your opponent might fixate on killing them (almost believing this stops the paladins entirely) and waste time or firepower on them. Even if they die you drop the paladins wherever you like (albeit outside 9"). Yeah I like 6. Damage isn't too shabby either (2 x 3 is obviously better but that's beside the point). I think your lists problem is post hammerstrike drop. The relictor relocate is realistically not happening. A 3+ is okay but thats 1 unit a turn and the relictor needs to be 3" from the unit - basically the front lines. If you scions him down thats movement so you need to conga the paladin unit you want to move next turn so that he can be 9" from the enemy and 3" from the paladin unit. Were I against you I would also try to nail the reli. Mirrorshield is ofc best item on him (on all bar castellants at the moment I feel tbh). Then the Celestant - spellshield v mirrorshield? I'm not sure myself. I haven't enough experience against magicky lists. I might suffer v disciples of tzeentch. Mirrorshields everywhere is my current choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstar Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 For me, I'd drop the Tempestors and Gryph hound and invest the points into more bodies in less drops.The spare 280pts could get you another Relictor and bring both of the Liberators, or one of the paladins, to 10. I'd also swap all of the Paladins to Protectors with Celestial Vindicators, they maximize the buffs and Protectors are amazing in their own right. They're much more flexible than Retributors and Decimators. They don't get shafted by -hit, they're easy to get models into combat range, and often get as many attacks as Decimators. All of this whilst being less vulnerable to shooting. I like both lists though, been considering both myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aquillor Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, Turragor said: Yes that's the thing with my list, I have not modelled blades on mine (I prefer the 4s and 3s of hammers) so I miss out on a decent bonus from the list. I'm really just taking it for the single drop then. I was fortunate to get into SCE after I picked up the new book and had planned on Celestial Vindicators due to their paint scheme. Now I run the risk of being "that guy" as it seem everyone and their brother is painting up Celestial Vindicators lol. Could be a combination of good battalion rules and appealing paint scheme, who knows. With that in mind the thunderhead megabattalions might fit better but I've looked at those and I've no models for the extra jud or lib units for Anvils of heldenhammer or hammers of sigmar. Not this time. I think hammers of sigmar is good going forward (maybe even sparing 100 reserve points for surprise libs, but the ward save and bravery bonus is more important). Howver, if I want to keep hammerstrike with those formations I have to sacrifice the dracothian guard. I looked at the lords of the storm megabattalions too but think that's too many heroes. Agree. Maybe at 2.5k I really liked the knights excelsior list (take 3x5 paladins, reroll 1s on all, reroll 1s and 2s on shields? Yes please) BUT there is no way to quickly deliver the paladins with certainty (like hammerstrike). For your... list I guess I really like it. At first glance most want to tell you to forget longstrikes x 3. In a sense they are right but with 2x3 aetherwings your shooting backline is really secured for a turn or two with the charge blocking technique. You can't take aetherwings alone and get that benefit. Yeah the LS are mostly there for the Aetherwing support and to aide in sniping off tough targets as needed, but definitely wont do it on their own. (Plus I think they look amazing model wise ). I like 6 prosecutors myself, maybe I can paint 4.5 instread of the 1.5 I need for 3. I plan on scions and paladin drop direct but 6 is great for running interference after. I feel if you are Scionsing them in, 3 is fine. But yeah 6 is perfect for staying power/harassment/points cost IMHO. With 6 you can also drop 1 x 5 or 2 x 5 paladins and leave 1 or 2 in reserve keeping them a potential risk for longer. Didn't even thing about dropping them at different times. This is a good idea. As with all Hammerstrikes, relocating the slow Paladins is an issue. Any ideas on how to make them more mobile? You could even use that as a bit of bait, drop 2 units of paladins and then put the lantern on the prosecutors, your opponent might fixate on killing them (almost believing this stops the paladins entirely) and waste time or firepower on them. Even if they die you drop the paladins wherever you like (albeit outside 9"). Yeah I like 6. Damage isn't too shabby either (2 x 3 is obviously better but that's beside the point). I think your lists problem is post hammerstrike drop. The relictor relocate is realistically not happening. A 3+ is okay but thats 1 unit a turn and the relictor needs to be 3" from the unit - basically the front lines. If you scions him down thats movement so you need to conga the paladin unit you want to move next turn so that he can be 9" from the enemy and 3" from the paladin unit. Yeah, I didn't consider that, I guess Lord Relictor will just be throwing each unit up as needed, or finding a different role entirely. Were I against you I would also try to nail the reli. Mirrorshield is ofc best item on him (on all bar Castellants at the moment I feel tbh). Then the Celestant - spellshield v mirrorshield? I'm not sure myself. I haven't enough experience against magicky lists. I might suffer v disciples of tzeentch. Mirrorshields everywhere is my current choice. I went with spellshield in this list because of the way I intend on playing the Celestant. He is already a decent save and with Staunch defender he will be a 2+. On the other hand, there are a lot of wizards in my local meta and they tend to just snipe him down with arcane bolt. That and we just got a new Tzeentch player in our group, so I think it will come in handy. To be fair, most of my list choices are designed to counter the overwhelming amount of destruction lists there are in my area. Its nearly all Ironjawz and Beastclaw around here. The screen combo is specifically meant to keep them off my gunline for as long as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papagumdrop Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I am playing a similar list this Sunday in our local event, I will let you know how it goes. I went a bit bigger in the Hammerstrike than you, kind of a go big or go home idea. The plan is to drop them as close to the biggest target or mass of troops possible with hopefully the Castellant to buff them the next turn. The liberators form a shield wall in front of the judicators, the relictor, and the vexillor, aiming to hold an objective depending on the scenario. The Venator freelances and doubles down on the target of the judicators or the paladins as needed to finish it off. Second or third turn the Vexillor can pick up the strongest paladin unit left and dump them either on an objective with the prosecutors peeling back to assist or attempt to slam them into another high value target. Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLeadersKnight Vexillor (140)- Standard of the Stormbringer- Treasured Standard: Lichebone StandardKnight Venator (120)- Artefact: Luckstone Lord Castellant (100)- General- Trait: Staunch Defender - Stormcast EternalsLord Relictor (80)- Prayer: Bless WeaponsBattleline5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows10 x Liberators (200)- Warhammers and shieldsUnits10 x Paladin Retributors (440)- 4x Starsoul Mace10 x Paladin Protectors (400)- 4x Starsoul Mace3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)- 1x Stormsurge TridentBattalionsHammerstrike Force (120)Total: 2000/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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