'Competitive' Disciples of Tzeentch

[kozokus]

18 hours ago, Nico said:

Partly this is because people are misplaying the D3 attacks for the Disk - it's a single dice for the number of attacks, not 9 D3s - this makes the damage output inconsistent at least, although if they roll a 5 or a 6, then it's devastating. See the Hints and Tips (even after the update/FAQ this is still true - it's different for Damage rolls). 

Would you care to explain that one? i cant find any reference in the rules, faq nor Hints&Tips

Thanks in advance!

[Nico]

The Hints and Tips states "Generate any random values for a weapon (except Damage) each time it is chosen as the weapon for an attack. Roll once and apply the result to all such weapons being used in the attack."

Hence the D3 attacks for the Disks of the Enlightened are determined as 9 x a single D3, rather than adding up 9 D3s. This makes the damage output much less consistent (which most players consider to be a weakness, e.g. 2 damage versus D3). I don't necessarily see it as a weakness (within some bounds, obviously a 1 in 100 chance of doing 100 damage is not worth very much).

Amusingly if mortal wounds are not Damage (as contended by those who want Destiny Dice not to apply to mortal wounds), then arguably Starsoul Maces are not Damage either and so for a unit of 10 Paladins, you should also roll a single D3 for mortal wounds and multiply that by 4. This would add some drama to proceedings (which I quite like).

[kozokus]

4 hours ago, Nico said:

The Hints and Tips states "Generate any random values for a weapon (except Damage) each time it is chosen as the weapon for an attack. Roll once and apply the result to all such weapons being used in the attack."

Understood.

 

4 hours ago, Nico said:

so for a unit of 10 Paladins, you should also roll a single D3 for mortal wounds and multiply that by 4. This would add some drama to proceedings (which I quite like).

 

[Slave2Chaos]

Ive got an upcoming 1500 point "competitive" game vs Beastclaws. I know he usually takes 4 of the big monster guys (not sure which combination exactly) and usually has a few other little things. Sabers/hunter/yetis

How i understand it the idea is to try and tie up the stonehorn with horrors or tzaangor and try and mortal wound off the tusks as soon as possible. Are there any combos/ units that you find really helpful?

I can field up to 9 skyfires. And have pretty much all other options to a varying degree of numbers minus the slaves to darkness stuff.

This is what I've been running lately as a more generic "friendly" all comers list

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- General
- Trait: Boundless Mutation - Tzeentch Arcanite Hero
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield 
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1500/1500
 

[Tokyo Nift]

31 minutes ago, Slave2Chaos said:

Ive got an upcoming 1500 point "competitive" game vs Beastclaws. I know he usually takes 4 of the big monster guys (not sure which combination exactly) and usually has a few other little things. Sabers/hunter/yetis

How i understand it the idea is to try and tie up the stonehorn with horrors or tzaangor and try and mortal wound off the tusks as soon as possible. Are there any combos/ units that you find really helpful?

I can field up to 9 skyfires. And have pretty much all other options to a varying degree of numbers minus the slaves to darkness stuff.

This is what I've been running lately as a more generic "friendly" all comers list

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- General
- Trait: Boundless Mutation - Tzeentch Arcanite Hero
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield 
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 1500/1500
 

Personally I'd drop the Gaunt and Balewind. They don't seem like they're gonna give you that much vs the monsters/monstrous. You could keep even just keep those points for splitting horrors, or more Skyfires, or to get a Tzaangor Coven in there?

 

in general looks like a solid list tho. BCR is scary but you have a plan so good luck

 

edit: idk if you were going to already, but I'd try taking the spell treacherous bond on the ogroid so he can make t across the field without getting zapped too much. 

[blueguy203]

So i am toying around with the idea of building a pretty competitive list for a tourney at the end of the month but need some input to complete it. So i wanted to make sure i bring some of the cheeze, Tzeentch already has access to with the Shamen/Skyfires. I wanted to bring a LOC cause of the default spell. I have to include a guant summoner and thought id try and combo him with Ogroid in order to buff the big brute and make him a sort of fighty wizard. I did like how well my Tzaangors performed last time so want to bring them against and support them not only with the shaman but also with guant/ogroid. I am bring marauders to meet the minimum for battleline, plus they can be pretty decent in combat. So would love critique so far of the list and help to finish it. 

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Sentient Weapons 
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blades
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)

Total: 1800/2000
 

[Slave2Chaos]

2 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

Personally I'd drop the Gaunt and Balewind. They don't seem like they're gonna give you that much vs the monsters/monstrous. You could keep even just keep those points for splitting horrors, or more Skyfires, or to get a Tzaangor Coven in there?

 

in general looks like a solid list tho. BCR is scary but you have a plan so good luck

 

edit: idk if you were going to already, but I'd try taking the spell treacherous bond on the ogroid so he can make t across the field without getting zapped too much. 

Sorry the list i posted above was more just my general all comers list that I've been running lately on club nights just to give an idea.

Im debating something like

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)

Units
20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
20 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

Total: 1500/1500
 

The Blues and Brimstones being from the summoning pool.

[AverageBoss]

On 4/5/2017 at 0:34 PM, Nico said:

The Hints and Tips states "Generate any random values for a weapon (except Damage) each time it is chosen as the weapon for an attack. Roll once and apply the result to all such weapons being used in the attack."

Hence the D3 attacks for the Disks of the Enlightened are determined as 9 x a single D3, rather than adding up 9 D3s. This makes the damage output much less consistent (which most players consider to be a weakness, e.g. 2 damage versus D3). I don't necessarily see it as a weakness (within some bounds, obviously a 1 in 100 chance of doing 100 damage is not worth very much).

Amusingly if mortal wounds are not Damage (as contended by those who want Destiny Dice not to apply to mortal wounds), then arguably Starsoul Maces are not Damage either and so for a unit of 10 Paladins, you should also roll a single D3 for mortal wounds and multiply that by 4. This would add some drama to proceedings (which I quite like).

Both of my local TOs have ruled that the H&T section is not part of the rules, and therefore optional (its not in the 4 pages). They have also said, even if it did apply, it would not apply to SSMs, as that is a special ability, not an attack. They have also ruled against the use of Destiny Dice on mortal wounds, as they say its not a damage roll.

[Tokyo Nift]

7 hours ago, Slave2Chaos said:

Sorry the list i posted above was more just my general all comers list that I've been running lately on club nights just to give an idea.

Im debating something like

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)

Units
20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
20 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

Total: 1500/1500
 

The Blues and Brimstones being from the summoning pool.

Yeah this looks v strong. Just keep your LoC safe from the thundertusks and you should be easily good to go.

[Changer]

Now that the Vortex Beast finally has the Tzeentch keyword, does it have a place in a competitive Tzeentch list?

[Arkiham]

45 minutes ago, Changer said:

Now that the Vortex Beast finally has the Tzeentch keyword, does it have a place in a competitive Tzeentch list?

id say so, its a big target, does mortal wounds on a 4+ ranging from d3 on 4, up to d6 + summon spawn if you want on a 6. nice a durable as of the d3 heal and could. do alot of attacks. 

[Changer]

Ok, so I currently run the first list below. It's currently undefeated in 3 games. I've had a little trouble with the Ogroid not hitting anything, but everything else has been ok. How does list 2 compare to list 1 in a competitive sense?

List 1

Lord of Change

Tzaangor Shaman

Ogroid

Gaunt Summoner with Familiars

10 Pink Horrors 

10 Pink Horrors

20 Tzaangor

6 Skyfires

3 Enlightened on disc

20 Blue Horrrors

10 Brimstone Horrors

Tzaangor Coven

 

List 2

Lord of Change

Daemon Prince with wings and sword

Tzaangor Shaman

Gaunt Summoner with familiars

10 Pink Horrors

10 Pink Horrors

20 Tzaangor

20 Blue Horrors

6 Skyfires

Vortex Beast

 

The second list gives me the Beast instead of Enlightened, Brimstones and the Coven. I just can't decide which would work better overall.

[Slave2Chaos]

18 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

Yeah this looks v strong. Just keep your LoC safe from the thundertusks and you should be easily good to go.

Yeah do to the inability to roll well on my skyfires, it meant 2 thunder tusks got in and bam 12 mortal wounds on big bird. Managed to keep him alive for a little while until a hunter did a run throw javelin thing and scewered my bird.

still managed to pull out the win due to his inability to out number me on objectives.

And just a public service announcement. Stonehorns are annoying as ****, that is all.

[Slave2Chaos]

@Changer

Im really interested in trying out a demon prince for some quick combat output that Tzeentch can lack.

Same with the Vortex Beast, seems like a really interesting option I'd like to fit in my lists.

[Tokyo Nift]

3 minutes ago, Slave2Chaos said:

Yeah do to the inability to roll well on my skyfires, it meant 2 thunder tusks got in and bam 12 mortal wounds on big bird. Managed to keep him alive for a little while until a hunter did a run throw javelin thing and scewered my bird.

still managed to pull out the win due to his inability to out number me on objectives.

And just a public service announcement. Stonehorns are annoying as ****, that is all.

:'( yeh man. real hard matchup. well played on playing the objectives though and getting out the win, that's all that matters in the end!

[Vaz84]

Totally going to pick up a Vortex beast. Mortal wound generation, savage amount of attacks in melee. Also thought if you DO manage to roll 2 on the table and pick a key unit. Let Kiros use his dice skill to completely remove that unit from a key turn!!

[kaintxu]

Quick question as  M just getting back to AOS

is a tzeentzch army viable based on daemons and warriors or do u need all the skyfires and new models for it to be competitive?

also, is the split rule any good in AOS as you probably have to pay for the new unit? And are pink horrors any good?

[AverageBoss]

5 hours ago, Slave2Chaos said:

@Changer

Im really interested in trying out a demon prince for some quick combat output that Tzeentch can lack.

Same with the Vortex Beast, seems like a really interesting option I'd like to fit in my lists.

I actually prefer the Ogroid to the Daemon Prince. He is almost as fighty, and he brings an extra D6 Mortal Wounds spell to the table. Going to have to try and squeeze a Vortex Beast in. And I just sold mine with my Warriors army a couple months ago...

[Infernalslayer]

Would you build a Tzeentch Daemon Prince with the Axe for rend -2 , or the sword that hits at 3+ ?

[Malfallax]

Axe every time unless you give him the -1 rend artifact... Then sword.

 

Additionally always try giving him the +1 attack spell on his weapon.

[backslide]

On 4/10/2017 at 8:27 PM, Malfallax said:

Axe every time unless you give him the -1 rend artifact... Then sword.

 

Additionally always try giving him the +1 attack spell on his weapon.

I always go sword, send him after light targets, and the +1 attack spell I love to put on my lord of change's sword

[Hobby Heresy]

So, Is it considered overkill to stick 9 Skyfires and a Shaman in a 1000pt force...

Asking for a friend.  

[ogmaadn]

I'm thinking about 2 different options for a 2k mortal/arcanites list, which one do you think is more competitive? Thanks!

Option 1

Leaders
Gaunt Summoner (100)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Units
20 x Kairic Acolytes (280)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (280)
30 x Tzaangors (540)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
Battalions
Tzaangor Coven (40)

Total: 2000/2000

Option 2

Leaders
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
Magister (120)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
Units
20 x Kairic Acolytes (280)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (280)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (160)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
Battalions
Arcanite Cabal (50)
Witchfyre Coven (60)
The Pyrofane Cult (80)
Total: 2000/2000

[Vaz84]

I feel the bigger blob for Tgor's is a better go.

I also am a huge fan of the Chaos Sorceror Lord on foot. Can hide him in a unit fairly easy (depends on your LOS meta).  His spell of re-rolling 1's to hit and miss, then re-roll their own armor save. I cast this on my Tgor blob the last game I played (20 Tgors) and just blended through 30 boys and a warboss.

[AverageBoss]

I am actually looking at something like this for my next game:

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
-Rod of Sorcery
- Trait: Magical Supremacy - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 4x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 8x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (220)

Total: 2000/2000