Balewind.

[Arkiham]

I start this off knowing we've just had a tzeentch release and are yet to see the "pros" put it into action but, 

Since the introduction of points to the Balewind I've yet to see a single usage of it within armies who have points left, using this obvious superior choice of summoning a unit for objective capture etc

This was my fear that would happen when they first nerfed it then added points to it, swinging the nerfhammer far too hard.

So with the expected up coming generals handbook 2.0 and knowing for a fact that some people on this forum play test it and are in discussion with gw , I would like to reopen discussion on the subject of the Balewind in the hopes of once again seeing it in action , but not becoming a auto include.

Personally I feel that points was overkill and that another method of restricting use should be employed so you actually see use.

[Soulsmith]

I feel like points might still be correct  but dropping it to being maybe 80? So it doesn't compete with most objective holders. Personally I am curious to try one with a gaunt summoner.

[Terry Pike]

I think its priced correctly. It allows for some incredibly strong hero phases with long ranged summoning and devastating snipes and unit deletion spells. I used one at the Heat 1 weekend and it was super useful, actually aiding me in winning my last game giving me the ability to snipe units off of objectives.

If it was free I would probably take 5 and pop one up every turn, just because I could!

[Arkiham]

not necessarily free without risk.

 you could add a additional failure risk onto it, make it so say you roll a d6, on a 5 or 6 it casts but on a 2,3,4. it fails. on a roll of a 1 the wizard is killed from being overwhelmed by the magic., and you have to cast it every hero phase to maintain it. 

makes it more interesting.

i just feel whacking points onto it was fine for a short term fix, but ultimately its a bit boring. it just discounted it from the majority of lists, and variety in games in great and seeing it back and potentially being a harmful thing rather than beneficial adds spice to the game 

[Squirrelmaster]

For a magic-centered army with casting bonuses, being able to drop arcane bolt and/or similar spells in round one would be worth the points, imo.

The arguably abusive strategy of pushing your own models 3" forward with it also means it's still viable, for people who are willing to play that way.

I think you need a lot of casting bonuses to make it worthwhile, though, unless you are running a summoning-based army already.

[mmimzie]

Have the threat of smoning models accross the map on some of the scenarios where holding all objectives proc and instant win. Forces enemies to keep a part of yhier forces back on thier object. 

[PJetski]

Its priced like a typical wizard. Doubling the range on your spells and getting +1 to cast (and also becoming immune to melee attacks) can be worth more than casting one additional spell per turn.

[Squirrelmaster]

Agreed. This risk, though, is that you set aside 100pts for it and then fail the summoning spell at the critical moment.

Casting bonuses help mitigate this risk. So does having other units you can summon with those points, if the balewind decides to not show up. Of course, a strategy that doesn't rely on summoning it at the right time, and just lets you attempt it turn after turn unit you succeed, would also mitigate the risk — but I'm not sure what kind of strategy would make that approach worthwhile.

I don't think it's worth dropping into just every random army, better to spend those points on something more reliable imo.

[Soulsmith]

I don't think it is worth it outside DoT, considering the fact you could simply fail teh summon the whole time. Destiny dice make it way less troublesome.

[Terry Pike]

Its definitely worth it outside of DoT, its pretty much an auto include for DoT though as they can really abuse it with the number of spells they have access to and can cast per turn.

In my mixed chaos list I was using it with a Gaunt Summoner (with familiars) and a Lord of Change (command ability) giving me +2 to get the Balewind on the table, then having +3 to cast while stood in it. Which is pretty immense when you can cast 2 spells

[Paul Buckler]

Thinks there is merit with sylvaneth for a similar boost to cast using their magic items, or someone like a loremaster to boost the range of his spell, esp when he can be in the gnarlroot and get to cast 2 spells.

 

[RossMHoward]

It's priced fantastically.

And if there's room for it in a Gnarlroot Sylvaneth list it's a total steal.

With a Branchwych with both the Silverwood Circlet and Verdant Blessing you can drop a wood 48" away. 

You can also Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield or Verdurous Harmony any unit that travels to that location in subsequent turns offering great support. 

But mostly her criminally overlooked Warscroll spell goes from hitting every enemy unit in 9" to hitting every enemy unit in 30". Perfect for chipping away at hero's and units prior to your shooting and combat phases. 

In my mind, it could even be 40, 60, 80 points more expensive and I'd still have a great time using it. 

But it does expose a hero to magic and shooting and it also prevents a model atop it from scoring in most cases, as it's a 6" high model. 

[Marc Wilson]

Facing a Hurricanum on one of these bad boys didn't feel like 100 points wasted to me. It made me feel like I was in the prison showers.

[bottle]

I need to get mine painted up and give it a spin. I am interested in the tactics it offers! It was interesting reading your take on it Terry, and that you used it to good effect in heat one.

[Soulsmith]

2 minutes ago, bottle said:

I need to get mine painted up and give it a spin. I am interested in the tactics it offers! It was interesting reading your take on it Terry, and that you used it to good effect in heat one.

Got any links? This would be interesting.

[bottle]

Just now, Soulsmith said:

Got any links? This would be interesting.

I just meant Terry's comments in this thread  

I would like to hear a bit more too, maybe it can be covered in an upcoming Facehammer podcast?

[Soulsmith]

Ah, thought you meant there was a battle report or something

[Shoe]

I use one with my gaunt Summoner from Silver Tower.

Stuck on the edge of the table, I beat a Kunnin Rukk with it. Great vs horde armies, or any army with 1 wound units. 

[Terry Pike]

11 hours ago, Soulsmith said:

Got any links? This would be interesting.

 

11 hours ago, bottle said:

I just meant Terry's comments in this thread  

I would like to hear a bit more too, maybe it can be covered in an upcoming Facehammer podcast?

I think I talked about it more in the upcoming episode with summoning/different spell options.

But basically here's some of things I have been doing and will be doing in upcoming events.

• Putting the Changeling or the Bluescribes on the Balewind to cast 36" range Infernal Gateways via a Lord of Change
• Summoning scoring units like Nurglings 28" across the board, Screamers/Cheap Tzeentch units can be summoned 36" which is huge for late game capturing.
• Silver Tower Gaunt Summoner with +3 to cast (LoC Command, Familiars, Balewind) casting Infernal Flames and deleting large units.
• Yet to explore the New Tzeentch spells on it, but I'm sure some of those will be devastating with double range.

Russ also talks about something he experienced at Heat 1 against Orruks using a Balewind, definitely worth a listen.

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, Terry Pike said:

 

I think I talked about it more in the upcoming episode with summoning/different spell options.

But basically here's some of things I have been doing and will be doing in upcoming events.

• Putting the Changeling or the Bluescribes on the Balewind to cast 36" range Infernal Gateways via a Lord of Change
• Summoning scoring units like Nurglings 28" across the board, Screamers/Cheap Tzeentch units can be summoned 36" which is huge for late game capturing.
• Silver Tower Gaunt Summoner with +3 to cast (LoC Command, Familiars, Balewind) casting Infernal Flames and deleting large units.
• Yet to explore the New Tzeentch spells on it, but I'm sure some of those will be devastating with double range.

Russ also talks about something he experienced at Heat 1 against Orruks using a Balewind, definitely worth a listen.

The Gaunt summoner, his spell,  is that only really working when they're within 18" of you? Or is that within 18" of your chosen target? 

[Terry Pike]

11 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

The Gaunt summoner, his spell,  is that only really working when they're within 18" of you? Or is that within 18" of your chosen target? 

The ruling that has been used at the Warhammer Heats and various other events is that the entire spell range is doubled, which is the initial casting range and then damaging effect range. The wording could be clearer and will probably end up with an FAQ.

[Arkiham]

59 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

The ruling that has been used at the Warhammer Heats and various other events is that the entire spell range is doubled, which is the initial casting range and then damaging effect range. The wording could be clearer and will probably end up with an FAQ.

Sorry,  what I meant was. You pick a target 18" away  and the spells affects, are they from the caster or from the chosen target ?

[Terry Pike]

17 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Sorry,  what I meant was. You pick a target 18" away  and the spells affects, are they from the caster or from the chosen target ?

Pick a unit 18" away, then roll a dice for each model in the unit within 18" of the Gaunt Summoner. So lets say the unit is about 17" away and 6 models are within 18" of the Gaunt Summoner, you would roll 6 dice. There could be another 20 models in the unit outside of your 18" range, you only roll for what is actually in range.

[Squirrelmaster]

In fact as written, the chosen unit does not need to be within 18" — it's just that the spell doesn't do anything if no models from the chosen unit are within 18” of the caster.

[Terry Pike]

3 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said:

In fact as written, the chosen unit does not need to be within 18" — it's just that the spell doesn't do anything if no models from the chosen unit are within 18” of the caster.

I think the only reason you would cast this spell intentionally without it being able to hit anything would be to teach the BlueScribes the spell.