Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Killax]

Blood Tithe points are really excellent and yeah it can cause for some amazing synergies. Though in general I wouldn't sit on it till 7. 1 to 4 are more then enough for me to use. As for using Relentless Fury and No Respite, it seems to me that the effect would indeed double up. 

I think that the cool thing about Blood Tithe is that it allows you to go MSU aswell, leaving massed horde benifits (such as special weapons or other bonusses) in order to gain acces to many Blood Tithe points throughout the game.

However in general I do think that a wise opponent will still aim to remove the Khorne Hero's as soon as possible, as this still is where most of the Blood Tithe points can lead towards dangerous turns.

1. Using that Command Ability at any time and point for just 1 BT point is just great!
2. Dispelling automatically is great.
3. Murderlust is great.
4. Crimson Rain can be really good if your multi-wound model heavy.

5. Nice but still forces you to be able to pile in.
6. Not worth saving up to (in my opinion).
7. Potentially awesome but again to save up for it causes a lot of time.
8. Not useful for competative play (in my opinion).

The prime reason as to why I like half is because going up to 7 could also have allowed you to use 1 Command Ability and Murderlust twice. Which in my theoretical approach is still usually better as going for 7. By large for objective purposes and continued charges.

[Jharen]

Oh 6 is useless.  Just complete garbage for that many blood tithes.  The magic area is between 1 and 4 and sometimes 5.

Number 7 is good but I recommend not holding out for it.  Use it if you get the blood tithes and don't have a use for them elsewhere or are in a situation where you're about to take a beating.  Someone mentioned earlier about your opponent just refusing to attack if you use number 7.  That's absolutely true sometimes and in fact won me a game against Ironjawz because I used it in his hero phase.  He refused to attack with some of his units and withdrew some of his other units.   Khorne knows war, and that's how I see these blood tithes - abilities which help you control the flow of the battle field.

[Killax]

I largely agree, also a quick and handy reference for players, the following Khorne models have Command Abilities, this can certainly help you figure out why I think the Mortal/Bloodbound Khorne Heroes are great and why the Bloodthirster Heroes are great  

Command Ability models (of Khorne):
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (for Khorne Daemons)
Bloodthirster of Insentate Rage (for Khorne Daemons)
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (for Khorne Daemons)
Mighty Lord of Khorne (for Khorne Mortal)
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (for Khorne Mortal)
Exalted Deathbringers (for Khorne Mortal)
Aspiring Deathbringers (for Khorne Mortal)

Chaos Lord (for Slaves to Darkness)
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (for Chaos Knights, Chaos Chariots, Gorebeast Chariots)
Chaos Lord on Manticore (for Chaos Warriors)

Cheers,

[Killax]

Edit: Double post

[Killax]

As always some Battalion discussion is also cool to include.

First things first the Khorne Battalions including all Khorne Mortal and Khorne Bloodbound models.
- (120) Bloodbound Warhorde, neat for stories but unlikely to be used for me. By large because I like the idea of 2K play.
- (100) The Gorechosen, neat for stories but unlikely to be used by me. 
- (80) Brass Stampede, I like it, still a bit high for 80 points, though certainly worth it if you want to go Skullcrusher heavy. The small change to Munderous Charge makes Skullcrushers that little bit better and I do like how 6 demand at least 1 to be removed to reduce it's possible drastic damage output. A good Battalion to consider in quite some cases.
- (100) Dark Feast, not a bad effect, but feels too expensive for it's cost to me. The target it puts on the Slaughterpriests' head is just too massive for me. It would have been a really cool Battalion if you'd be able to include more Slaughterpriests.. Won't use this one. 
- (100) Skulltake, a tad too expensive again but the Khorgoraths certainly improved. Worthy to give a try, can't say that it seems great on paper but might be pleasantly suprised.
- (60) Red Headsmen, despite it being a relative low-cost Battalion the trade-off doesn't seem worth it to me.
- (120) Bloodbound Warband, expensive but the trade-off can be worth it if your going to max out. With the use of the Blood Tithe points the Aspiring Deathbringer can certainly add an added value and all the other unit choices are allready valid by themselves. 
- (40) Bloodforged, seems great! Certainly one I'm going to try once I have enough Wrathmongers.
- (80) Gore Pilgris,  seems great! Absolutely worth it if your going to go for the 3 Slaughterpriests in my opinion.
- (80) Slaughterborn, seems great! I think that it will thake a while before I'll test this one but the trade of is clear.
- (40) The Goretide, at this cost simply said amazing. Highly competative and very likely to be seen a lot! It's difficult to include additional Battalions within this Battalion but it's important to know that you don't have to do this  and honestly, just adding Khorne Bloodbound units seems just fine to me as is. 
- (20) The Skullfiend Tribe, at this cost also simply said amazing. Hightly competative and a really nice Hero/Monster hunter list. Fantastic if you know your up against a lot of Monsters but at this cost in general is worth the deal if you like Skullreapers and decided to not use them within The Goretide Battalion.

We also have something for the Daemon fans!
- (60) Daemon Legion of Khorne, impossible to use for 2K so I will not use it any time soon.
- (20) Murderhost, at this cost simply said amazing. Highly worth it.
- (80) Bloodthunder Stampede, a bit too expensive for my taste. It's essentially the same as Brass Stampede in theory except that the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut just simply is better.
- (80) Council of Blood, just very cool! Worth it if you have the Bloodthirsters  (I don't have 3)
- (30) Blood Hunt, like Murderhoust at this cost simply said amazing. Cheap to include with Karanak too.
- (60) Gorethunder Cohort, not a bad effect. Worth to give a try if you like Skull Cannons. They remain dicey for their costs even with this Battalion.
- (120) Blood Host of Khorne, I personally don't like the cost/effort you have to put into this. Worth it (maby) if you want to go mono Khorne Daemon anyway!
- (40) Charnel Host, not bad for it's cost, worth to give a try but I don't expect too much amazing effect out of it.
- (40) Skullseeker Host, certainly worth the points in my eyes. Very cool again if your running Daemon heavy.
- (40) The Reapers of Vengeance, requires so many additional Battalions!  Very fast but difficult to include at 2K...
- (60) The Bloodlords, requires so many additional Battalions!  Hard hitting but difficult to include at 2K...

[backslide]

I managed to do bloodlords at 2k... many units I put numbered my moon clan opponent?

Reapers will be insane at higher point values

I used skullseekers with 3 cannons and a 60 bloodletter murderhost twice with success and it's a fun list 

 

Crimson crown is brilliant I had it in every Herald ?

[Gilby]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

(60) Red Headsmen, despite it being a relative low-cost Battalion the trade-off doesn't seem worth it to me.

I'd always thought that too, but seen it used to great effect. You'd think buffing up an enemy hero would be terrible for you, but suddenly your opponent is scared to use them in case they lose them and give your whole army +1 attacks for the rest of the battle. Especially with all those warriors hitting again as they die and now with us getting a chance to attack in the hero phase too... they'd have to be sure they were going to wipe out the unit before committing to a fight. The hardest opponent is one who knows his army really well and knows what it does and when to take fights, changing how his army plays can really throw him off his game.

Add in Gore Pilgrims to buff up the Skullgrinder and give you a huge range on the Bloodsecrator and I bet it'd be a really powerful list.

 

2 hours ago, backslide said:

Crimson crown is brilliant I had it in every Herald ?

Do you play it as hits of 6 or more generate an extra attack, hits of 6 after dice roll modifiers, or only when the dice itself says 6?

[Jharen]

Sadly the wording of Crimson crown means it is not 6 or more but simply rolls of 6.  Now as to if that is going to mean a natural 6 (die roll of a 6 before modified) or a modified 6 is certainly open for debate but really doesn't increase your chances of rolling the required number.  You always have a 1 in 6 chance - so just discuss which way you're going with it before your game so it doesn't cause a problem.

[Killax]

@Gilby will certainly give it a try when I can! As you said I do think that my opponent would be able to play around it largely, though offcourse it really differs per opponent. If we're for example dealing with a lot of Monster Heroes I do think that combined with the Skullfiend tribe you can do some serious scary things  

@backslide Nice what was your list!

I think that the Crimson Crown is a great choice when you have a really big base to work with. Despite it requiring 6's with the ammount you should be rolling this will hardly ever seem like an issue to me! More is always a good thing.

My personal favourite Battalions remain those who significantly speed up the force though, as I feel this really gives you a option into anything basically. Combine that with the Blood Tithe point effects and you should be able to reach practically any opponent which is not only really nice but also a big difference from what used to be one of the weaknesses mono-Khorne armies present.

Other than that as above I just really like the fact that our Heroes have become true slaughterhouses. This is great because I do not feel you need Skarbrand now for that role, despite him still being a great model to use and have. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

So @Killax has been raving about the Goretide and I decided to mock up a list to give it a look and I like what I see. I'm assuming that the rules from the Slaughterborn battalion mesh well with the Goretide's. I've also realized that we're spoiled for choice on artefacts and all of the different combinations they bring. 

Here's my list for a 2000 point game. 

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Unrivalled Battelust - Khorne Bloodbound or Mortal Hero
- Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer 
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Banner of Khorne: Banner of Blood
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Bloodbathed Axe
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Bloodbathed Axe
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades

Units
5 x Skullreapers (140)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (140)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
The Goretide (40)
Slaughterborn (80)

Total: 1980/2000

V1.0

Wrathmongers were added because of their effectiveness. Bloodreavers were added as body spam with the possibility of generating Blood Tithe by either dying or killing. Bloodstoker's effect meshes well with Skullreapers and the special rules of the Battalion's as a whole. I decided to do split prayers on the Slaughterpriest, with one shadowing the Meatripper Axes with Bronzed Flesh to make them tankier, and the other likely roaming to where Killing Frenzy is needed most. 

Artefacts are difficult. Do you increase the quality of attacks, or do you increase the amount?

With the Banner I went with the straightforward "You can't kill them if you can't hit them" mentality and picked Banner of Blood to further boost the effectiveness of the various boosts that this list already gets to movement. The other two are good but rely on either already being in combat or the enemy being within charging distance and neither of those seem like positives. 

The Mighty Lord of Khorne's Reality Splitting Axe is a tempting thing to boost, but how? I've chosen Mark of the Destroyer as I simply cannot see him *not* killing something when he's flying across the battlefield like a bezerker laying into unit after unit until they're pulped. I will likely try the Rend boosts in the future, though.  EDIT: Re-reading the Reality Splitting Axe's rule, I've realized that boosting his attack count could actually work against its ability, as you're more likely to kill whatever it is you're hitting. I'm going to still give this list a try (as it makes him good against Horde's and Monster's since his base attack is still mean), but I think in the future, increasing his Wounding or Rend might be the better option, and giving MotD to the Exalted Deathbringer instead since he is geared to better take on Horde's imo. I think MotD is still a good choice for the Mighty Lord if you're facing two or three high wound models, as it vastly increases your chances of wounding it. Another effect to consider: Running in and killing everything within 3" of you could strand your Mighty Lord on an Island which negates your units rushing in in the Hero phase. Something to consider! It might be worth buffing your Mighty Lord's staying power, since his regular profile is already pretty good and all of his formation abilities might make him a big target. Ignoring -1 Rend and Re-rolling armor saves of 1 or healing wounds could make a difference. 

Wasn't entirely sure about what Artefact to use for my Exalted Deathbringer, but I can't say that mortal wounds are un-attractive. 

Question: Does Unrivalled Battlelust stack with the Mighty Lord's Gorelord Command ability? Or does it have to be activated in your hero phase in order to use it in your opponents charge phase? Because damn that would be dirty to roll 3 dice on a counter-charge... 

[Killax]

I really like the look of it @Aspirant Snaeper! You could 'upgrade' the Slaughterpriest to a Bloodsecrator to go full 2K, though I like this plan aswell. 

You've added some great questions and the awnser really depends on the forces your dealing with. The moment you see a lot of 5+/6+ armour models, the quantity of attacks will push through. The moment you see a lot of 4+/3+ armour models the quality of the attacks becomes more important.
- I do allready like the 3+/3+/-1/D3 weapon of the Mighty Lord of Khorne I'm personally going for quantity as the attacks, hit, wound and damage easily. Hungry for Glory or Desciple of Khorne with Mark of the Destroyer still is one of my favourite Mighty Lord of Khorne combinations. 

In regards to Unrivalled Battlelust and Gorelord Command Abilities:
- Seems like it stacks to me an yeah that means your moving at lightning speed because The Goretide also still has it's effect. 

*Another nice bonus is that Gorelord Command doesn't require the MLoK to be general anymore. Which means even if he is not the General you can do so silly stuff with 1 Blood Tithe point.

 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

15 minutes ago, Killax said:

I really like the look of it @Aspirant Snaeper! You could 'upgrade' the Slaughterpriest to a Bloodsecrator to go full 2K, though I like this plan aswell. 

You've added some great questions and the awnser really depends on the forces your dealing with. The moment you see a lot of 5+/6+ armour models, the quantity of attacks will push through. The moment you see a lot of 4+/3+ armour models the quality of the attacks becomes more important.
- I do allready like the 3+/3+/-1/D3 weapon of the Mighty Lord of Khorne I'm personally going for quantity as the attacks, hit, wound and damage easily. Hungry for Glory or Desciple of Khorne with Mark of the Destroyer still is one of my favourite Mighty Lord of Khorne combinations. 

In regards to Unrivalled Battlelust and Gorelord Command:
- Seems like it stacks to me an yeah that means your moving at lightning speed because The Goretide also still has it's effect. 

 

Ahh yes, I was not making the distinction between "Command Trait" and "Command Abilities". I think Disciple of Khorne might be a better Command Trait to take, since there's already enough charge-buffing going around, not to mention out-of-phase charging. Unrivalled Battlelust is still something I'm going to try, since if I screen my Slaughterborn/Goretide units appropriately, I can have enough in range to charge what I charge come hero-phase charging time. 

I don't currently have a second Bloodsecrator and likely won't until they release a clamshell. 

[Killax]

@Aspirant Snaeper I like the way it is set up right now anyway! In many cases all that additional speed is the prime advantage and combined with Blood Tithe point(s) you can almost be certain that you'll have all those models chare succesfully. 

As we speak the Bloodsecrator by itself allready is very useful! In addition depending which House-rules are used locally I think a mix of Heroes is never a bad thing. In fact multiple Aspiring Deathbringers mixed in could also very well be the 'new' Bloodsecrator as using his Command Ability for 1 Blood Tithe point seems like a good deal to me when we factor in the costs

[Gilby]

@Aspirant Snaeper The MLK getting a D6" move in the hero phase followed by his 8" pile in* (there's been contention over this so I've clarified below) and then as he's the general all of Slaughterborn get a chance to charge (rolling 3 dice and selecting highest 2 with MLK command ability) and attack, he's basically a walking arrow magnet, make sure to take something to give him a chance to survive the first turn!

 

* The within 3" restriction to selecting a unit to pile in is only when checking if a unit can pile in during the combat phase (to stop hijinks with units with 3" weapon range moving to 5" away and then piling in 2" and attacking etc.) and the rules for Goretide say he "can pile in" in the hero phase with no 'if within x inches' (see Skullfiend Tribe rules for an example of it saying this). GW rules errata have stated that the 3" check doesn't get bigger even if you have a longer pile in move but make it clear that it is in the combat phase and have also stated than when making a pile in move the only restriction is that you end up closer to the nearest enemy and that this restriction applies to all pile in moves regardless of what phase they occur in. The only other requirement to pile in and attack is that you can actually make the attack as they are two halves of one thing. To anyone thinking this is wrong, check the rules and you'll see that the only place it even mentions the within 3" pile in is in the same sentence as a way to ignore the 3" pile in (if you charged). We all remember the 3" restriction because 99% of the time it applies. Sorry for the long explanation, just saw this being another "what is an allegiance" argument starting but wanted to point out how awesome Khul is in Goretide.

[Killax]

@Gilby What is obnoxious about The Goretide wording as is is that it does allow for multiple Mighty Lords of Khorne to be part of the Battalion but it is unclear how many can be affected by Aqshy’s Bane. 

Quote

In each of your hero phases, you can
pile in up to 8" and attack with the Goretide’s Mighty Lord
of Khorne. In addition, you can re-roll all failed hit rolls for
the Goretide’s Mighty Lord of Khorne, including any attacks
made with the Blood-dark Claws of his ferocious Flesh
Hound, Grizzlemaw.

Quote

The Goretide may also contain the following:
• 0-1 Gorechosen battalion
• 3-7 warscroll battalions chosen in any combination
from the following list: Bloodbound Warband,
Bloodforged, Brass Stampede, Dark Feast,
Gore Pilgrims, Skulltake, Red Headsmen
• Any number of additional KHORNE BLOODBOUND
units or warscroll battalions

Now logic would dictate to me that Aqshy’s Bane can only affect one Mighty Lord of Khorne, wording however leaves it up in the air...

What I hope is that Blades of Khorne will recieve a FAQ . Also in the relation to several other changes. 

 

[Gilby]

@Killax It does leave some wiggle room. The best argument against it meaning any Might Lord of Khorne is the fact that it say 'the' Goretide's MLoK which is a singular. Although I'd love to see a horde of Khuls rerolling all their attacks flying across the battlefield!!

Leaders
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
Bloodsecrator (120)
 

If anyone plays this you have to put the following on during your hero phase: 

 

[Killax]

Khul & The Gang

[Dragonlover]

Was anyone else surprised at the fact they didn't do any combined Mortal/Daemon Battalions a la Khorne Daemonkin? I'm kinda glad they didn't, I just expected there to be at least one.

Played my first game with the new book tonight. 1000 points, Escalation mission. I lost 9-5, but if we'd started with everything on the board I'd have swamped him in buffed up Bloodreavers. I ran a Gore Pilgrims Battalion with Skarr Bloodwrath to fill the gap.

My main takeaway was that I need to remember that the Hero phase exists and I can do stuff in it. Forgot my Slaughterpriests prayers most turns.

Dragonlover

[Gauche]

12 minutes ago, Dragonlover said:

Was anyone else surprised at the fact they didn't do any combined Mortal/Daemon Battalions a la Khorne Daemonkin? I'm kinda glad they didn't, I just expected there to be at least one.

Played my first game with the new book tonight. 1000 points, Escalation mission. I lost 9-5, but if we'd started with everything on the board I'd have swamped him in buffed up Bloodreavers. I ran a Gore Pilgrims Battalion with Skarr Bloodwrath to fill the gap.

My main takeaway was that I need to remember that the Hero phase exists and I can do stuff in it. Forgot my Slaughterpriests prayers most turns.

Dragonlover

Probably off your topic but they Errata'd Escalation so that you do start with everything on the board.

[Dragonlover]

Well, that would have been interesting. Ah well, twas a fun game regardless!

 

Dragonlover

[Aspirant Snaeper]

20 minutes ago, Dragonlover said:

Well, that would have been interesting. Ah well, twas a fun game regardless!

 

Dragonlover

A fun game is more important than winning in my opinion. 

I like this new book because it makes us competitive enough that we can win, but we'll definitely have a lot of fun either way. 

Old list making seemed to focus on a handful of builds just to be able to have a chance. 

[Killax]

5 hours ago, Dragonlover said:

Was anyone else surprised at the fact they didn't do any combined Mortal/Daemon Battalions a la Khorne Daemonkin? I'm kinda glad they didn't, I just expected there to be at least one.

Played my first game with the new book tonight. 1000 points, Escalation mission. I lost 9-5, but if we'd started with everything on the board I'd have swamped him in buffed up Bloodreavers. I ran a Gore Pilgrims Battalion with Skarr Bloodwrath to fill the gap.

My main takeaway was that I need to remember that the Hero phase exists and I can do stuff in it. Forgot my Slaughterpriests prayers most turns.

Dragonlover

I certainly was, I personally hoped they did one. I like the mix, I would have liked it if the lore could be replicated in a Warscroll Battleline. I wouldn't have minded it even if it was such a massive Battleline that I couldn't use it at 2K, though especially for Narrative play I feel it should have been there.

Remembering helps! Though the Blood Tithe point count is a very good reminder  
 

4 hours ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

A fun game is more important than winning in my opinion. 

I like this new book because it makes us competitive enough that we can win, but we'll definitely have a lot of fun either way. 

Old list making seemed to focus on a handful of builds just to be able to have a chance. 

I completely agree. What I think is going on is that AoS is applying some borders.

There still are some things I'd do differently for these newer Battletomes but that's just my opinion on it. I had a discussion the other day with @Sedraxis that I believe it would be more benifiical for the game if a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut would simply have this in his notes:
- When you thake a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut 1 unit of Mighty Skullcrushers becomes Battleline.
Instead of having the Mighty Skullcrushers say:
- Battleline if army has KHORNE BLOODBOUND allegiance and its general is a Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut

In general I think the Battleline concept doesn't add much at this point and quite honest I don't know why it excists.
If players want to go mono monsters, mono cavalry or mono infantry I feel they should always be able to do so. The optional but not restricitive is the main selling point of AoS I feel. 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

Here's a query. If a MLoK with MotD biffs combat and becomes a Chaos Spawn, does he still benefit from the D6 roll for movement?

[Killax]

7 minutes ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

Here's a query. If a MLoK with MotD biffs combat and becomes a Chaos Spawn, does he still benefit from the D6 roll for movement?

For The Goretide? I dont think so, as the spawn cannot be a legal part of the Battalion.

I also think he loses all Traite and Artefacts because he isnt Mortal, Daemon or Bloodbound or Khorne.

[RuneBrush]

6 hours ago, Dragonlover said:

Was anyone else surprised at the fact they didn't do any combined Mortal/Daemon Battalions a la Khorne Daemonkin? I'm kinda glad they didn't, I just expected there to be at least one.

I was fairly surprised by this, I was hoping for more overlap between all of the Khorne factions.  I would have loved a proper summoning mechanic too (prayer), either that or a way of spending 3 or 4 Blood Tithe points to bring on a minimum sized Bloodletter unit.