Thomas Lyons Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Nevvermore said: Sylvaneth are a sub-faction of Order, that's why you can choose the Order alliegance if you want. All Sylvaneth models also have the ORDER keyword. Fully agree. The discussion is whether a force can choose a Tzeentch allegiance while the whole army is within an Everchosen battalion. All models would have the Chaos and Tzeentch keywords, but they are technically in an allegiance that doesn't have the Tzeentch keyword/allegiance (although to be fair, battalions don't have keywords). The FAQ says that anything in a battalion gains the allegiance of that battalion (or at least the option of that allegiance). My assertion is that the Everchosen battalion doesn't remove the option to be Disciples of Tzeentch allegiance, although it isn't explicitly articulated in the rules. It will likely need a clarification/FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Shadowheart said: Warshrine only works on Mortal units, which Tzaangors aren't sadly (the re-roll saves of 1 does work, but a Tzeentch marked chaolls sorcerer can do that). This was one of the first things I thought of as well Ah dangit! You ruined my life! So that's Mutalith and Shrine out. Although I may take some warriors and shrine as an anvil since I can get a guaranteed success on the shrines roll. Mutalith would have been awesome with destiny dice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digdug Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 19 hours ago, Arkiham said: oh, as tzeentch not really. i suspect the battletome will provide a lot of help towards that, an apparently they're redoing some slaves to darkness rules to suit in better with this release Where did you hear/see the info about changes to StD rules? Any idea what the changes might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Ah wait... can't use destiny on warshrine either. Come on, brain! So Shrine and Mutalith are fairly kaput. Arg! We need battalion info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Digdug said: Where did you hear/see the info about changes to StD rules? Any idea what the changes might be? They mentioned it on twitch stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowheart Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, daedalus81 said: Ah wait... can't use destiny on warshrine either. Come on, brain! So Shrine and Mutalith are fairly kaput. Arg! We need battalion info... I know of a few battalions: Multitudinous Host: Herald of Tzeentch and 8 units made of any of the 3 types of horror. Pinks & Blues recover D6 models in the hero phase, Brimstones recover D3. Not great for matched play tbh. Witchfire Coven, 2 Units of Acolytes and a Unit of Tzaangor Enlightened. Acolytes can shoot in the hero phase. Reasonably useful. Changehost: LoC, and 8+ units of any non hero type of tzeench Demon. As long as they're within 27" of the LoC, any 2 units can swap places with each other. If you happen to have 18 units, you can swap 3 units. This one has potential. Skyshoal Coven: 2 units of Skyfires and 1 unit of Enlightened. Free 9" move in the hero phase. If you fly over enemy units, roll D6 fior each model in your unit, 6's cause mortal wounds. I can see this one being popular, easy frist turn charges for teh enlightened, and even more range on the Skyfires, nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yea I caught that, too. I do hope they have some StD rules changes otherwise it will be hard for me to justify my knights, too with no new synergies. Not that I'm worried much, because I looove the new models, but I'd rather keep some of the on table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowheart Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, daedalus81 said: Yea I caught that, too. I do hope they have some StD rules changes otherwise it will be hard for me to justify my knights, too with no new synergies. Not that I'm worried much, because I looove the new models, but I'd rather keep some of the on table. Found a few more battallions, see above Whilst I'd love some updates on some of the Slaves to Darkness units, I'm not sure its happening, none of them are in the book acording to the contents page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Explorator Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I think Slaves to Darkness are fine with Tzeentch Allegiance as is, considering not so far back we couldn't even expect to keep Allegiance with them in the army. They provide resilience no unit in DoT can even remotely approach, while the DoT stuff packs a mean punch. I do not say I would not have appreciated a few battallions open to including Slaves to Darkness or some neat new command ability, but Warshrine and Glaiveknights are still pretty good. There could still be some synergies hidden in the Lore spells we have not seen yet. To be completely honest, considering my misgivings about some of the DoT Warscroll designs, I am a bit relieved they left Slaves to Darkness mostly untouched. Now, if the book is in hands and there is still no way to play Monsters of Chaos in a Tzeentch Allegiance list, then I will be a fair bit miffed. You would think the servants of the great mutator would keep around some of the monstrous children of Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Considering we know some gw staff look at this site, and we know that many other people who use this also have contact with various levels of gw. Maybe if we make our voice heard enough they'll consider adding it. I want to do a mock up of a vortex beast marked tzeentch, I'll start a new thread to keep this thread on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Quote This is on bottom of 1/top of 2 in the General's Handbook errata. Am I missing something? Like this Quote The concerning wording wasn't in the FAQ answer, it's in the general's handbook itself (on the first page regarding Allegiance Abilities). It could still be clearer. It's the sentence: "If all the units and warscroll battalions in your army are Order, for example, then it has the ORDER allegiance." I've added the underlining. This suggests that the allegiance of the battalion itself matters (as distinct from the contents of the Battalion). I'm not even sure that many of the relevant Battalions actually have the Order stamp on them (I suppose they are listed in the Order section of the GH points table, which is probably how to solve that issue). The problem with the Fatesworn Warband would be that even though all of its contents are Tzeentch; and Chaos; and also Everchosen (because of the FAQ on inheriting allegiance from a battalion) - so the whole lot could be Everchosen Allegiance or Chaos Allegiance, nevertheless the Fatesworn Warband itself isn't Tzeentch (it's only Everchosen or surely Chaos as well). Hopefully that's clear. If this does stop you using the Fatesworn Warband in a Tzeentch allegiance army, then this looks like an unfortunate case that has slipped through the cracks. It's not a major problem. Thoughts? Have been incredibly busy since start of December, hence slow responses. Looking forward to watching today's Livestream on Friday hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Votters Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Looking over the tzeench stuff it looks like a high model count army. Can you see tzeench being run with low model counts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malin Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Votters said: Looking over the tzeench stuff it looks like a high model count army. Can you see tzeench being run with low model counts? "Problem" with huge amount of models is connected solely with battleline units. If you want to, you can use Herald of Tzeentch on chariot as your general, then Burning Chariots of Tzeentch are your battleline units (only available with Tzeentch Daemon Allegiance - so not for Arcanites). So 3 chariots solve the battleline tax, next you can concentrate on the juicy stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Quote If you want to, you can use Herald of Tzeentch on chariot as your general, then Burning Chariots of Tzeentch are your battleline units (only available with Tzeentch Daemon Allegiance - so not for Arcanites). Is this from the GH? I was under the impression (I've not seen the Livestream yesterday) that it's Tzeentch Allegiance full stop and then the choice of general would determine the Command Trait and Lore - that's wholly different from having a Tzeentch Daemon Allegiance (which is far more restrictive). I would have thought that the new book would probably overrule this part of the GH (or should do). Again having not seen the Livestream or the Book, I would have thought that a Tzeentch army would be spoiled for choice for Battleline (Tzeentch Marauders for cheap and cheerful battleline, Warriors of Chaos for Runeshields and solidity, Pink Horrors, Tzaangors and Acolytes all as inherent Battleline). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 How do we feel about 9x Tzaangor Skyfires with a Tzaangor Shaman riding on the disc? -16" move and 24" range gives them 40" threat -9 shots, hitting on 3s (with Shaman nearby), wounding on 3s, -1 rend and d3 wounds. Hits of 6 turn into d3 mortal wounds -Chaos Sorc synergy can make them re-roll 1s for hits and wounds -4W each gives the unit 36 wounds with 5+ save, but can be made 4+/re-roll 1s with the right buffs (Arcane Shield + Chaos Sorc) Same points as Gaunt Summoner + 3x Burning Chariots FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malin Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, Nico said: Is this from the GH? I was under the impression (I've not seen the Livestream yesterday) that it's Tzeentch Allegiance full stop and then the choice of general would determine the Command Trait and Lore - that's wholly different from having a Tzeentch Daemon Allegiance (which is far more restrictive). I would have thought that the new book would probably overrule this part of the GH (or should do). Again having not seen the Livestream or the Book, I would have thought that a Tzeentch army would be spoiled for choice for Battleline (Tzeentch Marauders for cheap and cheerful battleline, Warriors of Chaos for Runeshields and solidity, Pink Horrors, Tzaangors and Acolytes all as inherent Battleline). This is from the book, and yes, it is restrictive. Still picking the lores (for units/heroes) and traits for general is only limited to Tzeentch allegiance 1 minute ago, HERO said: How do we feel about 9x Tzaangor Skyfires with a Tzaangor Shaman riding on the disc? -16" move and 24" range gives them 40" threat -9 shots, hitting on 3s (with Shaman nearby), wounding on 3s, -1 rend and d3 wounds. Hits of 6 turn into d3 mortal wounds -Chaos Sorc synergy can make them re-roll 1s for hits and wounds -4W each gives the unit 36 wounds with 5+ save, but can be made 4+/re-roll 1s with the right buffs (Arcane Shield + Chaos Sorc) Same points as Gaunt Summoner + 3x Burning Chariots FYI. You could always go with 2 units of Skyfires and one unit of Enlightened (on disks) and get free 9" move in hero phase with one of the new battalions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malin Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 10 hours ago, Shadowheart said: Found a few more battallions, see above Whilst I'd love some updates on some of the Slaves to Darkness units, I'm not sure its happening, none of them are in the book acording to the contents page NO REWORKING DONE ON SLAVES TO DARKNESS SCROLLS sorry for shouting, but didn't want this info to be missed. Confirmed by Rob on Twitter few minutes ago. This is good and bad news. At least we know what we have and build armies already without waiting for update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 True, but a huge meh from me on that battalion. 9" move in the movement phase when their threat range is already insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malin Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, HERO said: True, but a huge meh from me on that battalion. 9" move in the movement phase when their threat range is already insane. they also cause Mortal Wounds on units passed over, just like screamers. Saw the book it is simply awesome. New arts are like: WOW! Plenty of Warscrolls and battalions, Models are lovely, but we have seen all of them already. Must have book for any Tzeentchian disciple. You only need to have Tzeentch Allegiance to get access to battle traits and new artefacts, so mix and mash Daemons Mortals and Arcanites as you see fit. One battalion allows you to shoot with Acolytes in hero phase, "Uber" Battalion (so battalion containing battalions), gives Acolytes +1 to wound for second unit shooting at the same target as the first unit, +2 for third and so on. Book will be out on Saturday so I know how will I spend that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevvermore Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'm currently thinking Units 20 Arcanites 20 Tzaangor 20 Pink Horrors 3 Skyfires 3 Skyfires Heroes Chaos Sorcerer Lord Gaunt Summoner Lord of Change Tzaangor Shaman Herald of Tzeentch Thoughts? Might be lacking in the bashy monster department and the units arenät very resilient, but it's got PLENTY of shooting and spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 It's only mortal wounds on a roll of a 6. Tbh those battalions all sound lacking . But I guess that's the sign of a strong army if the battalions are weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlack Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Really disappointed that at least the Mutalith didn't get a Tzeentch keyword. I have to drop Tzeentch allegiance to play any monsters. Also not excited for new Changeling rules, that model is invaluable in my Daemon army as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 minute ago, DarkBlack said: Also not excited for new Changeling rules, that model is invaluable in my Daemon army as it stands. I wasn't aware that the Changeling rules had changed? I'm looking at them on the app and can't see any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlack Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Changer said: I wasn't aware that the Changeling rules had changed? I'm looking at them on the app and can't see any difference. There's a hint on the "more change is coming" article on the Warhammer community site that the changeling will get new rules because he's cast off his disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changer Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, DarkBlack said: There's a hint on the "more change is coming" article on the Warhammer community site that the changeling will get new rules because he's cast off his disguise. All of the updated rules are in the app. I don't see the Changeling rules bring changed at all. I'm picking up my book later today so I'll check in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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