The Brotherhood of Necros Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Silly questions Edited January 4 by The Brotherhood of Necros 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said: 6) The elven gods are eventually framed as existing, even perpetuating, an endless cycle of worlds reborn time and time again. How can both this and the origin story of the world as being nurtured and seeded by the Old Ones be true? Old Wold lore is a tangle of contradictions and retcons and stories presented first as myth and allegory and later canonized as literal truth only to even later be de-canonized as never having been a thing at all. It was grown over decades by various teams of game designers and novelists none of whom ever had a full picture in their head, and even the most straight forward and fundamental of questions (eg, does Warhammer Fantasy Battle take place in the same universe as Warhammer 40k) returned a different and contradictory answer year to year. Any answer to these sorts of questions you source from the fandom will be a cobbled together web of contradictory lore and headcanons filling the gaps as best as possible, and most of the fans giving you the answer won't even be able to remember which bits came from official sources and which bits were wholly made up just to fit the rest together. I'm not saying that it isn't worth asking or looking into, but if you're looking for a definitive official canon timeline from the Creation to the End Times without major contradictions along the way - especially in those earlier bits - that's not really a thing at the moment. The Old World might provide answers to some of that stuff, but I kind of doubt it, especially with Lizardmen and daemons not being among the supported focus factions. Edited January 4 by Sception 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brotherhood of Necros Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 (edited) As above Edited January 4 by The Brotherhood of Necros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I'll say this while I can: I never really liked the theory that TOW is part of the 40k universe and just a world inside a huge, impenetrable warp storm and Sigmar could be a lost primarch (unlikely with the newer 40k fluff). I think it's better that the settings are entirely separate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 hours ago, The Brotherhood of Necros said: Silly questions Disagree (and I read them) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitionercity Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 3 hours ago, MitGas said: I'll say this while I can: I never really liked the theory that TOW is part of the 40k universe and just a world inside a huge, impenetrable warp storm and Sigmar could be a lost primarch (unlikely with the newer 40k fluff). I think it's better that the settings are entirely separate. I like to think of it like final fantasy - where they are totally different worlds or universes wherein recurrent tropes connect each piece of media as the same franchise/intellectual property. I also really wish they had done this with AoS - just made it (for example) the FF10 to WFB's FF9. Not a sequel, not an end, just a new world with same elements, names, etc. Edited January 4 by petitionercity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 54 minutes ago, petitionercity said: I like to think of it like final fantasy - where they are totally different worlds or universes wherein recurrent tropes connect each piece of media as the same franchise/intellectual property. I also really wish they had done this with AoS - just made it (for example) the FF10 to WFB's FF9. Not a sequel, not an end, just a new world with same elements, names, etc. Instead we got FFX-2 without a scantily clad Rikku! 😂 At least it’s not FFXIII…. anyways, I liked TOW (despite having no real interest in going back to it) and thus don‘t mind some of the characters being part of AoS, I just wish the characters I liked were still there. Precious few new cool chars get created cause everything revolves around the key players of old… I already took time off for FFVII Remake part 2. Can‘t wait! I just wish they put more effort into a remake of 3/VI as that has been my favorite (hard to pick one but it was my first and Kefka rules) - afaik, they work on a proper remake of 9, so that‘s cool too. Edited January 4 by MitGas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 In terms of 40k and Fantasy being in the same universe, there's tons of parallels, but the main thing getting in the way is the timelines involved. Iirc n 40k the War In Heaven / fall of the old ones coincides with the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event, 60+ million years before humanity existed. In Fantasy, those events predate human civilization by tens of thousands of years rather than tens of millions. Also in 40k the Old Ones collapse was followed by an incursion of chaos daemons as we currently know them, lesser and greater daemons aligned to the four chaos gods. In 40k, the collapse of the Old One civilization was followed by an incursion from the warp, but the invaders were puppeteers, not the familiar aligned daemons, because the chaos gods and their daemonic legions did not exist yet. Khorne, the first of the chaos gods, wasn't born in 40k universe until humans had already evolved, and it was the birth of Khorne and later Tzeentch that inspired centuries of war and invention that pushed humanity into the industrialized age and eventually the Age of Technology, in the process devastating earth's environment and both enabling and motivating humanity's initial stellar diaspora. Its tempting to try to force the timelines to fit, both because of how closely the overall shape of the histories fit (old one collapse -> chaos incursion -> modern elf/human/etc civilizations... though 40k needs a lot more time during and inbetween those steps) and because of the handful of direct references to 40k that were introduced to fantasy during the periods when 'same universe' was sort-of-cannon, and you can sort of do so since the warp allows for timey-wimey shenanigans. Maybe the polar gate disaster hurled the old world forward through time, or trapped it in a warpstorm where time flows differently. It would still require some non-canon-compliant alterations to the narrative - eg, in the canon fantasy timeline the Old Ones created early humanity, but in a combined timeline humans would have had to find their way to the planet later, maybe a crashed explorer ship from that initial colonization wave during the Age of Technology. The crossover framework that I prefer (when I want to justify crossovers at all) is that 40k and fantasy take place in different, spatially and chronologically disconnected universes, but that they are connected to the same warp. Ie Khorne is the same Khorne, Nurgle is the same Nurgle, the daemons are the same daemons, but the Old Ones aren't the same old ones, the eldar aren't the same elves, the humans aren't the same humans. Rather these elements are repeated because the the universes are echoing each other through the shared warpspace, with potentially countless other worlds and universes out there with their own variations on the same themes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I feel like I've wandered into a Doctor Who forum... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/4/2024 at 1:02 PM, MitGas said: I'll say this while I can: I never really liked the theory that TOW is part of the 40k universe and just a world inside a huge, impenetrable warp storm and Sigmar could be a lost primarch (unlikely with the newer 40k fluff). I think it's better that the settings are entirely separate. I agree. If tow was part of the 40k universe we’d definitely would have seen space skaven at this point 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitionercity Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Or imagine fantasy versions of rak'gol, hrud (when not space skaven), and other minor races! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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