RuneBrush Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 59 minutes ago, RossMHoward said: Agreed buddy! Some kind of Khornate Altar to extend the range of Slaughterpriest or Bloodsecrator abilities. Or something for undead to increase the amount of models they can heal back to a unit. There's a whole lot of untapped potential with scenery rules Temple of Skulls for the Bloodsecrator and Garden of Morr for undead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 OK, so Balewind Vortex. Just how does it work out that the Wizard on top is safe from combat? Is it because of the "can't move within 3 inches" part of the Roiling Vortex of Magic rule? Because "move" is a rules-specific term, that doesn't include charge or pile-in. Models that cannot move within 3" of something can still charge it - you're already prevented in the main rules from moving within 3" of any other unit by a rule using the exact same wording, and that doesn't save anyone from being charged or piled-into. Ultimately, it seems to me that if the Vortex is about 8" tall, and you have to start from 3" away, if you charged from there it would take a result of 9 or 10 to reach up top to the Wizard. Is it because your model is up on top of the terrain feature instead of on the ground, so you physically just can't put the attacking model where it needs to go? This is different from garrisoned buildings, where you effectively replace your models with the building as far as ranges go - in this case your model is still standing exactly where it is, up high over the battlefield. I don't know about your Balewind Vortex model, but on mine you could easily surround a Wizard with a trio of Prosecutors and get all of them to stay up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote Is it because of the "can't move within 3 inches" part of the Roiling Vortex of Magic rule? Because "move" is a rules-specific term, that doesn't include charge or pile-in. Models that cannot move within 3" of something can still charge it - you're already prevented in the main rules from moving within 3" of any other unit by a rule using the exact same wording, and that doesn't save anyone from being charged or piled-into. Ultimately, it seems to me that if the Vortex is about 8" tall, and you have to start from 3" away, if you charged from there it would take a result of 9 or 10 to reach up top to the Wizard. This is how I read it, although I was trying to jam the FAQ answer on the 3 inches away rule into this to tone the thing down. It would be irritating if you couldn't charge Kroak for example. I've emailed John Bracken of the events team suggesting this clarification of the rules in a FAQ or amending the scroll. I had it so you needed an 8 to charge, 3 if you could fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 If the house rule of "measure to bases" is being used, I'd just get a tape out and measure the straight line distance between the bases (good ol' hypotenuse). Nothing about flying or abstracting. Just measure the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 A corollary of the fact that a Flying unit ignores scenery (e.g. it can fly over a hill of any height and you measure the distance as a straight horizontal line) is the fact that it can stop part way over the scenery at an arbitrary height (again measuring the distance horizontally only). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Really? Crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 What so your Dragons hover 1 mm off the ground do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Sure thing bro lol. Without doing metal backflips you can't make fliers work in an effectively 2-dimensional game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 i still dislike being able to charge the balewind with anything. i understand that you're trying to make it more balanced it just breaks immersion. how do foot troops run up a tornado vortex thing made of wind and magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I'm not "trying" anything. It's clear to me that this is the actual rule, and it seems, from context, that maybe people have been playing it wrong by making Wizards up there immune from melee harm. There's nothing that makes you safe up there except the height (the actual inches of height). Argue about immersion all you like, and even refrain from charging your enemy on the platform if it helps your enjoyment, by all means - I applaud your dedication to handicapping your game to match your desired vision. But don't expect me to hold back if it's your Wizard on one, because it's pretty clear to me that I'm allowed to get up there following the normal game rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote Sure thing bro lol. Without doing metal backflips you can't make fliers work in an effectively 2-dimensional game. I think flying rules are one thing that suffer a tad when you condense to 4 pages and cover this in one line. I dread to think how much wording there was in 8th edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jabber Tzeentch Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 i still dislike being able to charge the balewind with anything. i understand that you're trying to make it more balanced it just breaks immersion. how do foot troops run up a tornado vortex thing made of wind and magic. Yeah I'm not a fan of changing the fundamental rules. A simple comp/points is all it needs to stop it being a must take. Some options:Points to include it (40 seems right?). Cannot be taken by Behemoths. Count it as an Artefact. Make it replace the wizards unique spell. Disallow altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Nico said: I think flying rules are one thing that suffer a tad when you condense to 4 pages and cover this in one line. I dread to think how much wording there was in 8th edition. It just doesn't work in any kind of realistic way (speaking of immersion lol) - why would any infantry ever, EVER, be able to get into combat with javelin Prosecutors that didn't want to fight them? Mental backflips, that's how! Anyway, that's OT other than in the sense that we're already breaking immersion all over the place, to the point that running up a magic whirlwind is only the third-most unlikely thing going on at any given time. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just remove the movement restrictions (make it equivalent to a garrisoned building) and it's actively pro-balance in the current meta where shooting >>>>>>>> magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Nico said: Just remove the movement restrictions (make it equivalent to a garrisoned building) and it's actively pro-balance in the current meta where shooting >>>>>>>> magic. That would work, but it would also be (I think) the first case of altering the wording on a warscroll as part of comp - correct me if I'm wrong. Not sure if that's a precedent I'd really want to set. I really think point cost is the way to go. I'd much rather set a precedent for monkeying around with point costs than with rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote That would work, but it would also be (I think) the first case of altering the wording on a warscroll as part of comp - correct me if I'm wrong. Not sure if that's a precedent I'd really want to set. It might be. The Rule of One effectively deleted wording from Kroak's, Nagash's and Arkhan's Warscrolls, or overrode said wording. They have amended the wording to fix/balance things before - e.g. Plaguebearers' locus ability switching to Nurgle Daemon heroes and they have fixed the wording on the Banner of the Wight King ("attack" became "wound"). Points would line up another debate (how much and do you pay for each time you summon it)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Oh I see what you mean - you're looking for a GW solution - they can alter any wording they like. I was talking about a TO/comp solution from the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMHoward Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 hours ago, RuneBrush said: Temple of Skulls for the Bloodsecrator and Garden of Morr for undead Haha except the Temple is huge! Maybe the rule for preventing attacks could be "The skulls are too slippy with blood!" And you can't attack the Necromancer inside the Garden of Morr because he's locked the gate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Quote Oh I see what you mean - you're looking for a GW solution - they can alter any wording they like. I was talking about a TO/comp solution from the community. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAAAGHdogg15 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Eeeerrrrrr... just heard a rumour that there are plans to release a new balewind vortex model... If it comes back into production, does that destroy the OOP argument? I think so. Incidentally, in two out of my five games at A Gathering of Might, I didn't use the vortex at all. Both times getting a major win, once against an opponent who had his vortex up for the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Maybe they'll give it a new warscroll and points or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 43 minutes ago, Carnelian said: Maybe they'll give it a new warscroll and points or something Why would they need to do that, when it's already been faq'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riyathe Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Has it been confirmed they are re-releasing the balewind vortex?, someone mentioned it was told in the white dwarf but i don't have it to hand. Would be good to know rather than getting scalped for an Ebay one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well when they re released old models with new books they changed the warscrolls so it's at least a possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxk Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It seems that the rumors are true! Balewinds everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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