How do you use / how much do you use summoning?

[TerrorPenguin]

New to the game so may not understand the tactical intricacies of it yet, but every time I have the choice between setting up a unit at the start guaranteed or risking a dice roll to set it up later, I tend to go for the latter 

Does summoning (as in summoning new units, not restoring old ones) see much table time in the games you play and how do you make the decision to use it?

ta

[WillofNagash]

I've just built a list around this...

i am planning on using the sword of summoning or whatever it's called to bring some morghasts into a list that has none because it need to keep its allegiance pure.

deathrattle- as I only have so many skeletons 

 

ill let you know how it ends up playing out

[deynon]

When I play around 1500 pt battles I reserves the points to evocate a unit of 3 horrors with my GKoT ability. With more points...it depends, but I reserve about 300 points for different needings like summoning zombies to keep objectives or other things

[wayniac]

I don't, thanks to the General's Handbook.  If I have to put points aside for it, it's not worth it IMHO.  So this also means for me as FEC that my ghoul king does not get a command ability anymore since it's summon a new unit, and I won't put points to it.

[Relentless]

Just started looking at FEC and not meaning to hijack the thread but how does it work with adding to a unit that has already had models removed? Do you still need the points or us a model restoration ability different?

[TerrorPenguin]

as I understand it, restoring dead models to units as one of their abilities - no points needed.

summoning new units - points needed

[hobgoblinclub]

I've not played summoning armies since the General's Handbook (just by coincidence. I'm not avoiding it now). I'm interested to see how it plays thin.

It seems to me very, very useful in objective based play. The 18" range on summoning only means one model has to be in range, so you can 'conga' the rest of the unit out to where it needs to be. Could be great at grabbing up territory, or denying your opponent board space.

[amysrevenge]

I've played maybe 100 games now. Never once summoned a single thing. I've had summoning used against me maybe 20% of the time (maybe less).

[Beardyface]

I think summoning is important for Undead. It provides a ranged threat we lack from shooting and helps tailer our lists to all comers. I think 400-500 points is a good amount. This allows the drop of two units of Harbringers, Mourngal, extra heroes in Three Places of Power. It also forces your opponent to respect the border more as they have to cater for these potentially very powerful drops.

[deynon]

I'm really thinking about my list in the 2k range to modify a little and change the "immortality ring" to the "evil power sword". Lately I'm thinking to change also my third behemoth (the second GKoZD) with a VoAT so that I can give him the sowrd to use to summon a unit of Archai or a Terrorgheist from the GA:D or other models, I have to think about it carefully.

Cause with my GKoT I usually evoke a unit of horrors that helos me greatly, I'm really thinking about pressing more, also cause I have yer him and a GKoDZ flying around to give really a bad time to almost all units.

[ElectricPaladin]

I really like the idea of using the evil power sword to get some variety into a Deathrattle list. I might try that.

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, ElectricPaladin said:

I really like the idea of using the evil power sword to get some variety into a Deathrattle list. I might try that.

Doing this to drop a Morghast nuke!

[ElectricPaladin]

31 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Doing this to drop a Morghast nuke!

My thoughts exactly!

[TerrorPenguin]

Don't forget you can have the ring and the sword if you take a battalion 

[deynon]

16 minutes ago, TerrorPenguin said:

Don't forget you can have the ring and the sword if you take a battalion 

Unluckyly for now I'm not able to find a batttalion that suits me with my likings n playing. Otherways it would be not a bad thinkg.

If I'd play with FEC tome it's easy to have battalions but also there is the problem about the points. More I play more options I see. The only thing I'm unable to oversee is my liking in playing skeletons and zombie over the ghouls^^ I'm preparing a lot of ghouls, but still I prefer the previous two choiices

[Robert Reid]

IMHO summoning is the bread and butter of the Death Grand Alliance.  All of my lists include some points for reinforcements.  Summoning provides you with so much flexibility; add troops without breaking allegiances, additional movement and board control, protection for key units (not on the table until summoned), capture objectives in first turn, and lastly the ability to Alpha Strike.

I'm currently playing FEC and just love the Ghoul Patrol battalion in combination with GKoZD.  At 2,000 pts,  I set aside 480 or more for summoning.

First turn, you bring in 3 units of Ghouls from any table edge accompanied by a Crypt Ghast Courtier. The Crypt Ghast Courtier has the Sword of Unholy power and summons a Terrorgheist automatically.  The expression on your opponents face is priceless.  The TG screams in the shooting phase and normally kills a hero on foot or the closest ranged threat. The Ghoul King summons a unit of Morghast Harbingers and they charge along with the TG  causing havoc to the enemy lines.

Your opponent is forced to put everything he/she has into killing your Alpha Strike units, which equates to a minimal investment of 480pts. Both units will eventually die, but they generally remove more points than they cost.  

The rest of your army captures and sits on objectives rolling 2D6 to return casualties to your Ghoul units with Crypt Horrors providing combat support to the Ghoulies. By the time your opponent kills your Alpha Strike units, you have scored 2 or 3 rounds of Victory Points and your opponent is severely injured and on the back foot.  Not to mention, it takes a lot of fire power to remove 20 Ghouls from an objective.

Death doesn't need a ranged attack when you have summoning.

PS:  If you want to be even more aggressive, then outfit your GKoZD with the cloak of mists and give him the red fury command trait and launch him into the fray as well.

 

[deynon]

1 hour ago, Robert Reid said:

IMHO summoning is the bread and butter of the Death Grand Alliance.  All of my lists include some points for reinforcements.  Summoning provides you with so much flexibility; add troops without breaking allegiances, additional movement and board control, protection for key units (not on the table until summoned), capture objectives in first turn, and lastly the ability to Alpha Strike.

I'm currently playing FEC and just love the Ghoul Patrol battalion in combination with GKoZD.  At 2,000 pts,  I set aside 480 or more for summoning.

First turn, you bring in 3 units of Ghouls from any table edge accompanied by a Crypt Ghast Courtier. The Crypt Ghast Courtier has the Sword of Unholy power and summons a Terrorgheist automatically.  The expression on your opponents face is priceless.  The TG screams in the shooting phase and normally kills a hero on foot or the closest ranged threat. The Ghoul King summons a unit of Morghast Harbingers and they charge along with the TG  causing havoc to the enemy lines.

Your opponent is forced to put everything he/she has into killing your Alpha Strike units, which equates to a minimal investment of 480pts. Both units will eventually die, but they generally remove more points than they cost.  

The rest of your army captures and sits on objectives rolling 2D6 to return casualties to your Ghoul units with Crypt Horrors providing combat support to the Ghoulies. By the time your opponent kills your Alpha Strike units, you have scored 2 or 3 rounds of Victory Points and your opponent is severely injured and on the back foot.  Not to mention, it takes a lot of fire power to remove 20 Ghouls from an objective.

Death doesn't need a ranged attack when you have summoning.

PS:  If you want to be even more aggressive, then outfit your GKoZD with the cloak of mists and give him the red fury command trait and launch him into the fray as well.

 

You're pratically using a variant of what I was thinking to list^^ I didn't thought to give the sword to che "Crypt Ghast Courtier" but it's really a nice idea.

I hope you don't get upset if I keep some point based on your idea.

Question: do you summon the Terror from FEC or from GA:D? Cause based on the description of the sword you can summon only the models who can be summoned by an enchantment, it means that it shoul be the GA:D cause the FEC one has not the option to be summoned.

[Robert Reid]

No, quite the contrary.  I love list building and glad to help a fellow Death player anyway I can.  This forum is a great resource for list design and tactics and such.

Here is a copy of the list I'm currently play testing:

400 - General - GKoZD Ring of Immortality, Ruler of the Night

160 - Varghulf Courtier (Supports Horrors)

160 - Varghulf Courtier (Summoned with Generals command ability)

80 - Crypt Ghast Courtier - Sword of Unholy Power ( Ghoul Patrol) 

80 - Crypt Ghast Courtier (Supports Ghouls)

200 - Ghouls x20

200 - Ghouls x20

100 - Ghouls x10

280 - Horrors x6

320 - Terrorgheist (Beasts of Grave/Summoned by Crypt Ghast Courtier)

***May substitute 2 units of Morghast Harbingers/Arcai in place of TG and Varghulf depending on opponent***

[TerrorPenguin]

Don't forget if you're using ghoul patrol you need to pay for it in points as well

[deynon]

@Robert raid: I think that the second "Crypt Ghast Courtier " is not so useful cause you'd have to have a ghoul unit quite back when it enter. Moreover your list is 1980 so you need those points to pay for the use of the Ghoul Patrol battalion warscroll.

Anyway it's a nice list, it's about the idea I had about mass evocation but I choose a different approach.

Anyway really interesting.

I dont' like using the Varghulf, but it's not quite a problem cause I'd use different options.

[Silverline]

One of the several 1000pts lists I'm considering building for Soulblight features a unit of skeleton archers, in order to help deal with their serious lack of numbers. Idea is to keep a big squad of 20 in reserve and use the Magical Sword of Summoning Stuff(tm) on a lord, who will be able to dump the unit atop an objective on the first or second turn

[deynon]

1 hour ago, Silverline said:

One of the several 1000pts lists I'm considering building for Soulblight features a unit of skeleton archers, in order to help deal with their serious lack of numbers. Idea is to keep a big squad of 20 in reserve and use the Magical Sword of Summoning Stuff(tm) on a lord, who will be able to dump the unit atop an objective on the first or second turn

I've tried them in a 2k points list and they did nothing but they were only 10, I'm thinking about a unit of 20 of them or a archer skeletons on horses to have more mobile unit with the same amount of arrows. But the summoning of the foot ones is one of my options

[Silverline]

1 minute ago, deynon said:

I've tried them in a 2k points list and they did nothing but they were only 10, I'm thinking about a unit of 20 of them or a archer skeletons on horses to have more mobile unit with the same amount of arrows. But the summoning of the foot ones is one of my options

Without the bonuses gained from being in a Tomb Kings army - notably bonuses to their to-hit rolls - I'd not even considered running them in a unit below 20, since when you are talking about 5+/4+/-/1 attacks, the only way they will do damage is with a veritable bucket of dice being rolled.

As objective control is one of their main functions, being large enough to survive a round in combat if necessary is also a big plus. Heck, if the size wasn't hard-capped at 20 for summoned units, I'd consider making them even larger to keep their ability online longer!

[deynon]

1 hour ago, Silverline said:

Without the bonuses gained from being in a Tomb Kings army - notably bonuses to their to-hit rolls - I'd not even considered running them in a unit below 20, since when you are talking about 5+/4+/-/1 attacks, the only way they will do damage is with a veritable bucket of dice being rolled.

As objective control is one of their main functions, being large enough to survive a round in combat if necessary is also a big plus. Heck, if the size wasn't hard-capped at 20 for summoned units, I'd consider making them even larger to keep their ability online longer!

I simply wanted to try them so I decided to test them with 10 models, they quite itnerested me so I will trying soon with 20 storng ones. Moreover cause the the sowrd has no limits in the evocation and they can be evoked 20 models strong I can always think about evoking directly 20 of them. But Sincerly I'm thinking more about Skeletons horse acrhers. I have to test them a bit.

I'd can even change the pike skeletons with archers, but sincerly I love the first ones a lot and they are impressive in defending and killing monsters. I'll make some experimentations that is for sure.

[Sej]

I like to use summoning to bring in banshees or carin wraiths depending on the situation.

Banshees are great threat towards skaven gun lines chances are you loose your banshee in a turn but she is going to do alot of damage to the gun line first and take up a turn of shooting keeping the rest of your army from being shot up.

 

The carin wraith i use to block movment. summon the sod up in the middle of your enemies lines and hes got to be removed before the bulk of the enemy can get past. Slap on an arcane shield and he has alot of survivability.

 

Oh and the best thing about summoning the banshee or the wraith is it dosent use up any of my hero spaces.

I often use the two togeather as thanks to the rule of one i cant bring more than one of each a turn.