Death News (if any) at Adepticon

[Sception]

Stream's Down: but you can see the new Death stuff previewed on Warhammer Community: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/new-ossiarch-bonereapers-and-soulblight-gravelords-heroes-rise-from-their-graves/

What I was thinking going in:
 

Quote

 

IIRC, the last time there were rumors with any air of credibility, they suggested the following for Death releases that might be announced here:

• New OBR battletome, but only a pity hero for new models.
• New FEC battletome, with a pity hero plus a new medium ghouls unit with melee and ranged options.

So that's what we've got our fingers crossed for.  Doesn't sound like much, but imo anything more than books & pity heroes should be considered gifts from Nagash.  I certainly don't think we've seen any particularly large pile of yet unexplained rumor engine pics that would justify hoping for more than that.  Heck, we might not see anything at all for Death tonight.  So yeah, expectations should be set pretty low.

Hard to keep hopes down, though, given how much untapped potential there is in the OBR range, and how much unmet need in the FEC range.

 

What we actually got:

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First announcement is the dark angels primarch.  Not undead, but dang he looks good.

Second is a Horus Heresy campaign book.  Still waiting on AoS

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And the age of sigmar preview is... seraphon?  Wait, didn't their book already come out?  No?  Well, don't I have egg on my face!

New cold one riders & kroxigors.  They do look very nice.

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Wait, no, there is some death news...

 

The 2 Spring Death books are officially announced: Ossiarch Bonereapers and Soulblight Gravelords, both with a single new hero.

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New OBR pity hero, apparently buffs elites/monsters/monstrous infantry

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New Vyrkos named small hero for soulblight?  Because that's what we needed more of?

Eh, I can't be bitter, she looks good

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So, the Death books are OBR and Soulblight, not OBR and FEC.  And while the rumors had suggested a Soulblight update later in the year, this is not the model support that was supposed to go with it, so I think we can put those rumors to bed.

I'm ok waiting longer for FEC, if it means there might still be hope for a more complete range revamp & expansion, as they dearly need it.  OBR has a lot of untapped potential for expansion, but what they need most critically right now is an in depth rules revamp, so I can't be /too/ mad about the pity hero treatment.  Will definitely be looking with interest towards future articles that might indicate how much the new battletome will change.  Same with Soulblight, I really had my fingers crossed for new grave guard, but the main thing they need is just a slight rulebook update incorporating the white dwarf update.

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Tzeentch and Sigmarines for the new underworlds season.  Is it really time for a new box set/season?  It feels like the very last release was the box w/ the grave guard warband?

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And of course, 10th edition 40k.  Ultramarines vs. Tyranids, not Blood Angels.  Some interesting news, including fully free rules on day one.  Not on topic here, though.

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So, with the previous rumor pile dead, what's the future look like for AoS releases?

So the undead books are still the next ones.  Seraphon out in summer, along with a new ghb - I'm straight done buying those.  I haven't bought the current one, and I'm glad I didn't because I've played, what, four games since it came out?  I won't even get to each of the matched play scenarios before the whole book is defunct.  I used to happily buy every ghb, but a significant price rise coupled with 6 month seasons just kills it for me.

Anyway, that aside, Cities of Sigmar out in autumn, and two additional yet unannounced books, one in summer and one in autumn.  Unless I missed something, we don't know anything about them yet, so more death this year could still be possible.

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I've got more to say here, stuff that mostly amounts to "these new hero models are cool, but they're also about objectively the furthest you could get from anything their factions actually needed or wanted," only with way more words than that, but it's going on 1am and I've got work in the morning, so that'll have to wait.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Sception

[Sception]

I lied, I have to get the whinging out before I can go to sleep.

...

Rumors aside, I wasn't expecting anything more than the standard 'pity' hero with the two Spring books, not with the major Seraphon and Cities revamps plus 10th edition 40k this year.  But that said, even for pity heroes these are rather piteous. Don't get me wrong, they both look amazing, but 'another vykos dynasty named hero' and 'another generic obr infantry caster' are literally as far as you could possibly get from what these factions might want or need or find exciting.  Like you could not come up with less exciting concepts if you tried.

If they wanted to give OBR a morghast support hero, which seems to be this guy's gimmick, why not an actual morghast hero?  Or if that would have been too large, why not an infantry liege, since currently the only generic liege is mounted, while there are already 5 40mm-or-smaller base OBR casters, if you count the special character & underworlds model, two of which already don't see any use due to the overcrowding of that niche.

If they wanted to add another subfaction-locked named vampire, why not one for literally any of the other bloodlines, which currently only have their big game monster bosses?  Or if they desperately needed something vaguely vyrkos themed, because everything new has to be vyrkos for some reason, then why not a generic version of the gravedigger named character from the Ulfenkarn box?  Zombies are actually popular in the army now, it would be nice if they had a dedicated hero to go with them that wasn't named, subfaction-locked, and currently dead in the canon lore.  And is there really some rule saying pity heroes have to be infantry?  Because it is /still/ downright shameful that the same book that finally gave us plastic blood knights also /took away/ the cavalry vampire lords who should have been riding into battle alongside them, so if there's one hero model that the faction sorely needs, it's that.

They're giving us what has become the bare minimum, but in a way that feels like going out of their way to give us even less than that.  Is this what Ogre players felt when their pity hero was a worse alternative to their already rarely played infantry beast hunter guy?

Which is all particularly a shame because, apart from all that, just looking at them as a couple new models, these two are pretty fantastic.  Like, I hate that these are the models we're getting, but setting that aside I really love both of them.

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There was one notable surprise here in that the expected death books weren't Ossiarch Bonereapers and Soulblight Gravelords, but rather OBR and Flesh Eater Courts.  Partially a shame, because FEC need the rules update much more than SBGL do.  On the other hand, FEC even more desperately need a significant revamp and expansion to their model range, a pity hero absolutely will not cut it.  If they're not coming now, then at least there's still hope that when they do arrive we might see a proper model wave for them.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Sception

[Honk]

30 minutes ago, Sception said:

I lied, I have to get the whinging out before I can go to sleep.

Good morning 😅 Good thing you liked ?it?

I‘m Not thrilled… fudging furry, that Abomination is all over the Place imo and for me doesn‘t push any buttons (beyond exterminate).

I didn‘t know the term pity hero, but it seems fitting, right down the Kriza lane. Looks funky on display, will Never See the table. And as you stated, there are still some Open spots in the line up for a Model or two (cav-hero/the beast II), way GDubs insists on releasing something nobody needs, is puzzling/frightening.

Cado was ok, but why do cado II ?!? Because he financially delivered, so they said „again, gimme cash“… 

🤔but production costs should Not differ too much between a 30mm figure mold and a 50-90mm mold which I hoped for (red Duke 😢)
 

That said, still hope for a wider FEC range … which is good

Edited March 23, 2023 by Honk

[Sception]

as i understand it, the people who write the books / understand the game aren't typically the ones coming up with new units.  rather the sculpters make what they think would be cool.

dynamic, expressive character models are the kinds of things artists find cool to craft.  Also the vampire's bat swarm & the mortisan's floaty pose suspended on a tendril of magic that is also drawing away raw bone from the base to craft a new morghast above him is the kind of showy stuff thatx again, is fun & expressive to make as an artist and shows off the stuff gw can pull off with their superior production methods & materials that rival mini companies just can't do, and that even 2d printing has trouble with.

[El Syf]

So underwhelming that soulblight got the named character for Vykros. What other factions have had a named hero as their pity release? 
Agree completely on all points raised. 
Interested to see what they change in both books though. At least Nagash won’t have a warscroll change between the two books though, god knows what they’ll change with him this time. 

[Honk]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

shows off the stuff gw can pull off with their superior production methods & materials that rival mini companies just can't do, and that even 2d printing has trouble with.

Maybe, but if we‘re doing the „look what I can“ dance, against other sculpters and home 3D printing, they hit rock bottom hard.

lost kingdoms has great terrain same as a bunch of others… some have cool minis.

people who Go the length to get a good 3D resin printer and get good at it, have already decided against GDubs…

showing off something nobody needs is (a bit) besides the topic of the company and the „needs“ of the playerbase…

epic morghast Champ making them cool again pushes both lines,

epic Blender/mage Vamp making vargheist great again could be more beneficial than a stupid fancy furry vamp Lady  (which could be awesome, if she had beefy werewolves, Just saying)

[rattila]

Well, the good point is that you can proxy boneshaper for ossifactor & vice-versa. Also if you want 2 boneshaper or 2 ossifactors, there you are with two different models.

But also, you could just avoid to spent money on this guy. That is a little sad, as you said its as far as we needed or wanted.

Now, maybe does the rules will be well worked for the whole faction. Hell, why not making one more profile for the morghast and saying : this one is a hero ? Cant wait to see. As we said, i'm expecting not much... but still hope to not be disappointed.

[Sception]

Alright, I've had a sleep, and I'm feeling less salty.

Soulblight: We're a couple years out now from the 2nd edition army book release, so it's a bit harder to remember now, but the 2e book did come with an absolutely huge range overhaul, still one of the best in AoS history (though the recent StD and the new Seraphon are strong contenders). The Grave Guard are a sore point, as is the lack of a cavalry vamp lord, but apart from that the range doesn't really /need/ anything, and the rules still mostly hold up. It'll be nice to not need to haul an issue of white dwarf around alongside the battletome - that's all the gravelords really need, so good. Really nothing to complain about here.

The new Vyrkos named infantry hero is an odd choice, but the faction really doesn't need any new infantry heroes, so whatever. She's gravy. You could treat her as another limited edition model, just a nice looking display piece, and in that light she's fine if you like her and can be ignored if you don't.

Worth pointing out - while the old grave guard are a sore point, there is a potential alternative for them that does have nice new models - the recent warcry warband. If their rules don't change much in the new book, they are a solid alternative for infantry glass hammer, particularly in legion of Night and Kastelai where at least currently they benefit from subfaction rules.

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As for OBR - yes, this is a low key release. But their existing range was already a pretty impressive showing for a brand new faction only one edition ago. As I'm always reminding myself, it's easy to look at lumineth and start to feel jealous, but if you look at fyreslayers or KO it helps put things in perspective.

And narratively, now really just isn't the OBR's time. Nagash is out of the picture. Arkhan is out of the picture. Katakros is fighting to hold captured territory in the 8 points, not currently active or expanding in Shyish or Ghur. OBR certainly needs more than Gravelords, but what we need most is new rules to make our faction's special rules play more nicely with the 3rd edition core rules. It's too soon to say we're definitely going to get what we want here, but hope is absolutely still strong.

As for the new model, yeah, another mortisan is /not/ what this faction needed or wanted, and aesthetically it is overly close to the boneshaper - though that's not necessarily a bad thing.  But the particular specialty of this mortisan? Supporting our big stuff - stalkers, immortis, morghasts, harvesters, and crawlers? That's potentially relevant.  People have been trying to make monstrous infantry based OBR armies work since the 2e book's release, and this hero might just prove to be the missing link in that chain, at least mechanically. Plus, they just look really cool. In particular, I like their gribbly little fingers, that look like they're twisting and contorting to perform the somatic components of complicated necromantic rituals that no mortal could enact. I like their back plate with the boney tendrils extending from it. The model really captures the themes I love about the faction as a whole.

...

So yeah, can't deny that I would have been /more/ excited for /other/ new hero choices, but I'm not unhappy as it is.

Definitely looking with interest towards future warcom articles previewing the new battletomes. Also crossing my fingers hard that we'll see something more substantial when the FEC get their day, because that's a faction that does need a significant model range expansion and overhaul.  Copy-paste battletome & a pity hero won't cut it there.

[Vasshpit]

Don't care for or about ****** boys. Great idea, lore, etc but worst possible design execution imo...

Ivya Volga... The sculpt is great imo!!! Someone suggested to use it as a Vyrkos vamp lord proxy and thought that was a good idea. But yeah, SBGL could've really used a number of other things besides another named vamp foot hero. Namely a grave guard upgrade. We may see it in next warcry season. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Vasshpit

[Sception]

2 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Don't care for or about ****** boys. Great idea, lore, etc but worst possible design execution imo...

No accounting for taste, I guess.  😛

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

My feelings about these new models are mostly similar to everyone else's. They look like cool models that are fun to paint. In particular, I think both of them have excellent composition from an artistic standpoint. However, another Vyrkos character and another Mortisan are not the first, second or even third thing SBGL and OBR need from a gameplay perspective. They are actually kind of the worst choices. SBGL already whas three Vyrkos foot heroes that don't see play, and would rather want another generic hero like a mounted Vampire Lord. OBR has three different low-level mages that don't see play and could use a Stalker or Mortek Guard martial support hero instead.

I think the reality of these models is that they are designs that were not initially put into production during previous design waves, rather than new units designed with the needs of the faction in mind. Good new is that at least a lot of the current gaps in the rosters of the two books can be filled by recontextualizing existing models instead of adding new ones. For SGBL, the Vengorian Lord, Wight King or even Coven Throne could fill the fuctional role of a mounted vampire lord (although I get why people would want a boss vampire on a cool horse instead for aesthetic reasons). For OBR, the Mortisan Soulreaper can fill the role of a martial hero if GW finally decides to give him a good combat profile, and the other Mortisans could become worthwhile mages if they get extra casts or a cast bonus.

In any case, for me the battletomes are more imporant than new models this time around. OBR has needed a new book ever since 3rd edition broke Relentless Discipline, and I am optimistic about them becoming a lot more fun to play. SGBL had a good book, but after all the great 3rd edition books I think it's easy to feel some of the weaknesses in its design. I think chances are good that the 3rd edition Soulblight tome will be an improvement in terms of playability, as well.

[MotherGoose]

There was a time when all you'd get is a tome for the update, the pity hero chucked in is just a cool addition alongside the tome. Whilst I agree we don't 'need' her, it's cooler than just getting the book alone. As others have said already we don't really 'need' anything. Sure new GG would be brilliant, a mounted vampire would be nice, but our book is over 2 years old and still holds up well - I mainly just want an update to rules and scrolls to make them 3.0 worthy, like Khorne have just got - I don't really need to get the new hero, I just want the new rules. Having another model to potentially buy and paint is cool but I'm not too fussed.

As for the vyrkos model itself, I absolutely love it. I have a lot of vampires currently so won't rush to pick her up but I'll definitely get her at some point. Similarly for the new khorne priest woman.

Edited March 24, 2023 by MotherGoose

[Sception]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

In any case, for me the battletomes are more imporant than new models this time around. OBR has needed a new book ever since 3rd edition broke Relentless Discipline, and I am optimistic about them becoming a lot more fun to play. SGBL had a good book, but after all the great 3rd edition books I think it's easy to feel some of the weaknesses in its design. I think chances are good that the 3rd edition Soulblight tome will be an improvement in terms of playability, as well.

I agree that battletomes are more important, and I'm certainly on pins and needles waiting for warcom articles hinting at what, if anything, might be changing.  But the bigger part of me expects that both new tomes will mostly be copy-paste jobs.  I mean, the same pressure that meant neither of these factions are seeing significant new model releases - ie studio time and attention focused on other major projects - also means there likely wasn't a lot of spare effort to put into the battletomes themselves.  Additionally, the devs who write new battletomes don't necessarily actually play the factions they're updating, which means they may be totally unaware of even the most obvious points of friction for players.  For Example, OBR are super awkward and frustrating to play in 3rd edition due to how aggressively their faction rules refuse to play with the core rules of the edition.  However, while this is super obvious and annoying to people who main the faction, it hasn't really translated to their overall event win rate, which has stayed mostly in the goldilocks 45% to 55% zone, so a dev who doesn't spend much time with the faction might think 'they're fine as is, no need to change much.

Soulblight on the other hand started strong but over the course of 3rd did sink well below the 45% mark.  But a dev might think that was mostly due to just meshing poorly with the previous matched play season.  And they wouldn't necessarily be wrong there.  Bounty hunters did hit soulbight's infantry based battle of attrition core build very hard, and since the new season their event win rate has already recovered back to above 45%.  In the soulblights case, I honestly wouldn't be that put out by a copy paste job.  There are definitely areas that could be improved, but my own biggest complaint about them really is just having to bring a random white dwarf issue with me to games, and trying to remember what rules are in the magazine and what rules are in my tome if I have to look something up.  If that's the only thing the new book fits, I'll see it as a bit of a missed opportunity sure, but I won't be sorely upset or disappointed or put the army into storage Ilike I might for OBR if their new book is a copy-paste job.

Which I guess just goes to my overall point. I think that OBR are in more need of a hefty rules revision that soulblight, even though by the metrics soulblight have been struggling more in 3rd edition.  If the devs who wrote the rules in the new battletomes haven't been maining these armies, and if they didn't have a lot of time to lurk forums and reddit due to needing to finish the book over a weekend so they could get back to the all-hand-on-deck 10th ed 40k project, then I just don't know how they'd see that for themselves.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Sception