Flesh-eater Roles

[boots468]

Soooo, I haven't played AoS since last October, due to real life getting in the way, and apparently a lot has changed! I'm going to the Facehammer tournament this weekend (though will be tight getting painting done in time!) and don't have time for any practice games. Below are my thoughts on the models I'll be taking (based purely on theory-hammer rather than experience, sadly) - any further comments or thoughts would be much appreciated.

1) Ghoul King on big flying murderbeast

The coolest model in the range, and the fluffy choice of general too, he seems to be the lynchpin of the army. Not cheap at 1/5th of your overall 2k points just by himself, but can cast, can fight and is super tough with the Ring of Immortality and 5+ ward from the army trait. (Does the trait stay at 5+ even if the general dies?).

Neither command trait looks that good with the General's Handbook rules, and overall the Zombie Dragon seems to beat the Terrorgheist for effectiveness. Planning on running one of each, just to test them, but looks like just taking would normally be best.

2) Ghoul King on foot

A lot cheaper, but slower, more fragile and less killy too. I'm not thinking of using any, as seems to be beaten out by the troops for combat effectiveness and objective grabbing, though if no flying Kings were around, would want a couple for spells and the bubble of improved trait saves.

3) Courtiers

Similar to the pedestrian Kings, they all look worse in a fight point-for-point than the units, but offer summoning back models and the trait bubble. Got to be careful not to get them far away from the specific troop they can replenish, apart from the Varghulf, who doesn't look great on paper apart from the summons. What unit / courtier ratios are people liking? I'm planning 3 to 1, but taking courtiers does seem to influence which units you then take.

4) Ghouls

The bread and butter unit, they look not great in 10's but quite tasty in 20's or 30's, though as our only Battleline choice that's a lot of ghouls. Fragile and not that murderous, at least they have a good Bravery and can speed bump some units if you're not willing to invest in bringing a tonne of them?

5) Horrors

Probably the most efficient point-for-point comabt unit we have? Low model count helps bravery tests too, though not sure how often their healing will come into play - although all the wounds caused by a unit have to go on the same horror until dead, when allocating damage from a later unit do you have to start with the injured one again? Even if the healing never happens though, they still look solid.

6) Flayers

A cool use of the old sprue, though costing more points than Horrors, they look a bit fragile. Having access to rend is lovely, but their shooting attack is surely useless against most armies - I guess their speed and flying maneuverability are their selling points?

7) Unridden flying monsters

Okay, but not as cool as Kings riding them? Once you buy the beast, adding spells and better healing on top seems to be the best option unless maxed out on Leader slots or points already?

8) Formations

Hmmm. Ghoul Patrol looks ace for big Ghoul units (though hard fitting them all on the flanks I guess), but otherwise quite situational. Some very cheap ones though, for a cheeky second artifact?

 

Thanks for reading, and any pointers where I've mis-read a role or rule would be much appreciated!

[WillofNagash]

21 hours ago, boots468 said:

Does the trait stay at 5+ even if the general dies?

Nope, as the command trait is only for the general, so only 10" from him. So it's 6+ from any other hero.

[WillofNagash]

21 hours ago, boots468 said:

Flayers

They are good for the mortal wounds. And mobility.

[WillofNagash]

 If I had the models I would take a Ghould King on Zonbie Dragon and one on Terrorgheist. That gives you 2 sweet sweet spells. Stack the spells on the terror gheist send him in with a ring and let him do his best explode  and then come back

[ElectricPaladin]

I've had great luck with Ghoul Patrol at 1k. Two units of 10 jumping onto objectives my opponent thought was safe, one unit of 20 popping out where they'll need to fight for it. I imagine it's even better in bigger games.

Do not underestimate courtiers. They are the backbone of this army. They don't earn their points back by killing - they do it by making your units indestructible.

[boots468]

Thanks!

 

4 hours ago, WillofNagash said:

Nope, as the command trait is only for the general, so only 10" from him. So it's 6+ from any other hero.

 

The battle trait says 'roll if within 10" of your general or any other hero' and the general's command trait says 'add 1 to the battle trait rolls' , so while he is alive it's a 5+ near any friendly hero, I'm just not sure if the command trait persists past his death.

 

4 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

I've had great luck with Ghoul Patrol at 1k. Two units of 10 jumping onto objectives my opponent thought was safe, one unit of 20 popping out where they'll need to fight for it. I imagine it's even better in bigger games.

Do not underestimate courtiers. They are the backbone of this army. They don't earn their points back by killing - they do it by making your units indestructible.

 

I do want to try the patrol, but will have to wait for future games - too many to paint with just 3 more nights! I agree courtiers look to be essential, but the numbers of them to take, where to position them, and when to commit them into fights is knowledge it'll take me a while to learn. A big ghoul patrol unit near the courtier, with it's 5+ ward, and (effectively) 2d6 back every turn does look scary...

[WillofNagash]

36 minutes ago, boots468 said:

so while he is alive it's a 5+ near any friendly hero

I wish this was the case, unfortunately this is in the FAQ, only the general gives the 5+ as it's a trait the general has, not the army.

[boots468]

D'oh! Thanks for pointing that out, would have been embarrassing if I'd have tried to argue it in a game. I read though the Death FAQ thoroughly, didn't think to more than skim the handbook FAQ.

Cheers, makes the other heroes less valuable than I thought, but makes the bigger base on the flying mounted king that much more helpful.

[Grimnaud]

On 9/19/2016 at 8:18 PM, boots468 said:

Soooo, I haven't played AoS since last October, due to real life getting in the way, and apparently a lot has changed! I'm going to the Facehammer tournament this weekend (though will be tight getting painting done in time!) and don't have time for any practice games. Below are my thoughts on the models I'll be taking (based purely on theory-hammer rather than experience, sadly) - any further comments or thoughts would be much appreciated.

1) Ghoul King on big flying murderbeast

The coolest model in the range, and the fluffy choice of general too, he seems to be the lynchpin of the army. Not cheap at 1/5th of your overall 2k points just by himself, but can cast, can fight and is super tough with the Ring of Immortality and 5+ ward from the army trait. (Does the trait stay at 5+ even if the general dies?).

Neither command trait looks that good with the General's Handbook rules, and overall the Zombie Dragon seems to beat the Terrorgheist for effectiveness. Planning on running one of each, just to test them, but looks like just taking would normally be best.

2) Ghoul King on foot

A lot cheaper, but slower, more fragile and less killy too. I'm not thinking of using any, as seems to be beaten out by the troops for combat effectiveness and objective grabbing, though if no flying Kings were around, would want a couple for spells and the bubble of improved trait saves.

3) Courtiers

Similar to the pedestrian Kings, they all look worse in a fight point-for-point than the units, but offer summoning back models and the trait bubble. Got to be careful not to get them far away from the specific troop they can replenish, apart from the Varghulf, who doesn't look great on paper apart from the summons. What unit / courtier ratios are people liking? I'm planning 3 to 1, but taking courtiers does seem to influence which units you then take.

4) Ghouls

The bread and butter unit, they look not great in 10's but quite tasty in 20's or 30's, though as our only Battleline choice that's a lot of ghouls. Fragile and not that murderous, at least they have a good Bravery and can speed bump some units if you're not willing to invest in bringing a tonne of them?

5) Horrors

Probably the most efficient point-for-point comabt unit we have? Low model count helps bravery tests too, though not sure how often their healing will come into play - although all the wounds caused by a unit have to go on the same horror until dead, when allocating damage from a later unit do you have to start with the injured one again? Even if the healing never happens though, they still look solid.

6) Flayers

A cool use of the old sprue, though costing more points than Horrors, they look a bit fragile. Having access to rend is lovely, but their shooting attack is surely useless against most armies - I guess their speed and flying maneuverability are their selling points?

7) Unridden flying monsters

Okay, but not as cool as Kings riding them? Once you buy the beast, adding spells and better healing on top seems to be the best option unless maxed out on Leader slots or points already?

8) Formations

Hmmm. Ghoul Patrol looks ace for big Ghoul units (though hard fitting them all on the flanks I guess), but otherwise quite situational. Some very cheap ones though, for a cheeky second artifact?

 

Thanks for reading, and any pointers where I've mis-read a role or rule would be much appreciated!

Okay, I've wanted to start a discussion on FEC tactics for a while now, so hopefully my two cents worth will be of some help to you this weekend.

My general take on the Flesh-Eaters are that we are all about that buff, 'bout that buff, more cheddar! Nothing in our books should be considered on their own, but in relations to their various synergies. With that in mind, let's go through the units you've brought up.

1) Ghoul King on big flying murderbeast

One of the coolest models we have in my opinion. Both variations can be beasts in combat, but they unfortunately both come with the same disadvantages, namely; 1) they scream TARGET in big flashing neon letters. Given the option of targeting either of them or pretty much anything else of no specific strategic value in our army, you can be sure that they will be on the receiving end of as much shooting as possible. As they get progressively worse in shooting and cc, you want to get them in either cover or into combat as soon as possible. Getting those big beasts into cover is easier said than done, so facing any opponent with any significant amount of shooting, the headfirst charge is probably your best bet. Which brings us to 2) except for summoning Courtiers, or Horrors/Flayers, a ghoul king on foot will do at least as good a job providing the re-roll bubble for ghouls and Horrors, while having as goods a buffing spell, and providing a much smaller target.

If you do take one or more kings on murderbeasts, make it your general. There are two simple reasons for that; first that unless we want to summon FEC units, we don't really need a general. Sure, inspiring presence can be nice, but since everything in our army is Bravery 10, in most situations it won't be needed. Second, that means that you can give him Red Fury. Ruler of the night might seem nice, but you WANT your king on murderbeast in combat, and you want him to do as much damage as possible. The chance of attacking again will be worth more to you in combat that the +1 to the save-bubble. For the same reason, give him the cloak of mist and shadow instead of the ring of immortality. It opens up more options than the ring does, and honestly, coming back with d3 wounds on such a big and valuable target is just a quick way to ensure that he'll get killed again. The cloak on the other hand will allow you to get a first turn charge in if you need it, or can be used as a quick escape from combat or to claim objectives later on. If you're using two kings on murderbeasts, pay for a battalion, and use the free additional magic item to give the other king the cloak as well. Having the option of charging on the first turn with both should be enough to bring an evil smirk to any Flesh-Eater generals face.

2) Ghoul King on foot

The Ghoul King on foot is a buff hero, and should be used as such. He can't regenerate anything, so it might be tempting to drop him, but he will give both Ghouls and Horrors that all-important re-roll while being a wizard. He's not fantastic in combat, but he can hold his own. That's actually a good thing, as he won't be as high up on your opponents priority list. Use him to cast and dispel, and to provide the re-roll bubble.

 3) Courtiers

The auto-include buff hero. You NEED courtiers to negate our low saves, just as you need the Ghoul King to negate our high to hit-rolls. They're all rather lack-lustre on their own, but the entire point of them is that they shouldn't be on their own. Take the courtiers you need to support your units choices, and watch your opponents dismay as our troops keep coming back. The Ghast is almost always in my lists to support my ghouls, but I honestly prefer a Varghulf to the Haunter or Infernal, as I won't waste the 2's, 3's and 4's on the regen-rolls, but can pour them into any ghouls nearby instead.

4) Ghouls

The work horse of the army. Ideally in units of 30 to maximise the amount of time they can keep their +1 attack and to make them a pain in the neck to wipe out. Within the both the re-roll and regen bubbles, a humble 300 points of ghouls have 3 attacks each, rerolling ones, get the 6+ alliance save, with 5 dead models coming back each turn on average. If you can get the Ghoul King's Black Hunger spell off, kill something with the Ghast, or pay for the Ghoul Patrol battalion, they can get an additional +1 attack each, +1 attack each, and +d6 models back respectively.

5) Horrors

Their healing isn't all that good, but getting a wound back each turn isn't all that bad either. Again, keep them within the re-roll and re-gen bubbles and watch them go! The Black hunger spell can be used to give them yet another attack. Don't risk sending them off on their own though. They need the buffs to operate at max capacity.

6) Flayers

Rend, flying, and potential mortal wounds. Their main advantage, if you want to call it that, is that they can't be buffed to the same degree that the Horrors can. That means that you can send them to kill vulnerable units and claim objectives outside of a kings re-roll bubble without any loss of efficiency.

7) Unridden flying monsters

There are three main reasons why I would take unridden monsters; 1) They look cool. 2) They are expendable, and will help with target saturation when using a ghoul king on murderbeast (Love that description ). 3) Royal Menagerie alpha strike bomb. I'll discuss that one below. Other than that, you get another 5 attacks and a wizard for an additional 80 points, making them sort of useless.

8) Formations

I LOVE the Ghoul Patrol battalion. Giving each unit of ghouls their own regen ability means that it is almost impossible to get rid of a large ghoul units as long as it's within a regen bubble. 5 ghouls from a courtier +d6 means that unless you wipe the unit out entirely, it's sticking around for a while. The other reason is that it allows me to take some chances with the Ghast Courtier. Since his regen bubble isn't all that vital anymore I don't mind charging hin into combat to try to activate the Trophy Hunter ability.

The other formation worth taking note of is the Royal Menagerie. It is expensive, taking up over half your army 2K, but what you get back is one of the cheesiest glass cannon ploys in our playbook, namely the Royal Menagerie alpha strike bomb. With their initial movement of 14"+12" charge+the free movement form this battalion, you stand a decent chance of propelling three cannonballs of teeth and claws into your opponents lines on turn one, disrupting his tactics, and hopefully giving the rest of your army time to get into position to claim objectives and/or follow up on the charge. I haven't tried this one, and I don't plan to, but I've seen the damage one flying beast can do. Three of them.....

 

Hope that helps some, and good luck this weekend!

[Nico]

Quote

Second, that means that you can give him Red Fury. Ruler of the night might seem nice, but you WANT your king on murderbeast in combat, and you want him to do as much damage as possible. 

As tempting as Red Fury is, I cannot overstate how big a deal a ward save is. If Nurgle only had a 6+ ward - no-one would play them at all. I do like the Cloak of Mists and Shadows though.

It's worth discussing the buff spells in more detail. The reroll wounds aura spell is phenomenal. If you can squeeze in both, then it's probably best to take the GKoTG as the General as that way you keep the ward save aura hero and the offensive aura hero distinct. The Ward save spell is also great on a big block of Ghouls, Horrors or even on the GKoTG itself. 

The Flappy Bomb is indeed horrendous as I know from playing @Thanatos Ares. That might be the only valid reason to take the Red Fury/Tomb Blade combo.

[Grimnaud]

12 minutes ago, Nico said:

As tempting as Red Fury is, I cannot overstate how big a deal a ward save is. If Nurgle only had a 6+ ward - no-one would play them at all. I do like the Cloak of Mists and Shadows though.

I agree, but it really depends on how you want to use a mounted ghoul king. In my experience, using him to support hasn't worked out, since he is a much too large and much too juicy target for magic and shooting. So when I use one, I use it as a wreaking ball, and then I want him to do as much damage as possible.

I can't roll a five to save my life, so the loss of the +1 to the save is negated by focussing on regeneration instead.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think that the overwhelming durability that a king on terrorgheist with Ruloer of the Night can hand out is worth considering. With a spell plus proximity, you can arrange for a key unit to have its native save, then a 5+, then another 5+. The Flesh Eaters are all about grinding your opponent down. If you can keep even one model alive, you can regenerate lost models and destroy all your opponent's hopes and dreams.

Id argue that flayers are best used as escorts for a king on zombie dragon. He can buff them with his spell, negating their key weakness. 

[MarkyMark]

I really love the GK on zombie dragon and terrorghiests, the breath getting around high armoured high bravery models, terrorghiest getting around low bravery and hoping for the 6's on gaping maws, that combined with 5+ from deathless minions plus the 5+ from unholy vigour add to that rings of immortalites and d3 regens and bringing models back from the courtiers it really does grind stuff down and aim for the resilience side of FEC.  I did try out the wight king for the extra 6+ save but felt it wasnt better then the GK on foot with the extra attack spell

[deynon]

1) Ghoul King on big flying murderbeast

I play 2 of them in every list. Sincerly I use them to have something fast, deadly and not easy killable. I prefer to have my general the one on Terrogheist cause I like the command ability and it's magic. I prefer the ruler of night cause usually I make him and the his twin on Dragon Zombie to fly together to bully the week and so the ruler of night help me to resist the amount of enemies they have to sluaghter.

For the same reason I prefer the immortal ring on my general (in case of formations I'd give a second one to the one on DZ) cause I use these two unit to give big damages on the enemies. Moreover both of them heal natyrally. And ahving a model that come back almost with 2d3 wounds before acting again...I find it quite amusing.  Moreover cause it will have almost always a 4+ 5+ 5+ way to prevent damages on itself.

I don't point on the red fury cause I prefer protection, but surely it's likely one of the best use if you play more aggresively, but about objects on him I still prefer it. Otherway I prefer the cloak (with other heros I like also the summon weapon) cause with the adding of the red fury it brings a fast calamity to the enemy, moreover if you start as first.

2) Ghoul King on foot

Incredibly I don't like him to much in a matched play, in a free one I like it really a lot, acconpanied by a ghol patrol with a crypt ghast moreover. Simply I prefer big heros. He is quite good, but I don't find it really strategic in an Army (ok, it can boost the attacks of FEC units, but it's a bit underscore.

3) Courtiers

Generally quite good, they can replenish the models in different ways, really, to talk about them in a complete way I should analyze them individually, but surely they are interesting and they cna substitute the GKoF really greatly.

4) Ghouls

The base of the army. Along the battlaion fo the patrol makes them really interesting making them like skeletons but much more mobile. 

5) Horrors

Not mind if battalion, mixed with undead...simply awesome. I prefer to use them like sneakers to force the hand of my opponents, but thery are really some thing. If used in the field a unit of 6 or even 9 of them is like impending doom on the opponent, almost unstoppeble. And if coadiveted by the right courties...a living nightmare.

6) Flayers

Sincerly I don't find them quite something aside from the battalion. Fast, ok, but only that.The cry is almost useless. With the deathwatch battlaion they are really scarying, but otherwise I don't see them too much

7) Unridden flying monsters

Amazing. I always loved Terrogheist and since the exit of the multikit I magnetized and modified to be able to hav ealso the option of the unridden DZ. I love those beasts

8) Formations

Some useful, some less. Quite heavy in cost in the list, but they can vary and change quite a lot the playing style, giving a lot of ways to have fun with the FEC, by themselves or combind in GA:D armies.

[WSDdeloach]

What's the feeling on this list??

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King (100)
- General
Abhorrant Ghoul King (100)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)

Units
Crypt Ghouls x 20 (200)
Crypt Ghouls x 20 (200)
Crypt Ghouls x 20 (200)

Behemoths
Terrorgheist (320)
Terrorgheist (320)
Zombie Dragon (320)

War Machines

Batallions
Royal Menagerie (60)
Ghoul Patrol (100)

Total: 2000/2000

[Cthulhus Lawyer]

Ive been running this list 

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)
Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)
Varghulf Courtier (160)

Units
Crypt Flayers x 3 (160)
Crypt Ghouls x 30 (300)
Crypt Horrors x 6 (280)
Crypt Ghouls x 20 (200)
Crypt Ghouls x 20 (200)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Ghoul Patrol (100)

Total: 2000/2000

Its not the most original list but it tends to get the job done. The 20 man ghoul as a tar pit until the horrors join the fun and the 30 man ghoul as a damage unit. The Flayers are there to jump into objectives while the rest are utility and support . The big boy on the Terrorgheist is an open option either to support or Shadow Cloak my way into a lonely target .