AoS 3 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Clan's Cynic]

Ouch.

[ledha]

It's okay because now HEROES CAN'T BE SHOT AT ALL FROM MORE THAN 12" away.

Now, we are safe from long range sniping, which, in addition to our very strong anti-magic tools, will make us a force to be reckoned with. This buff may be general, but it help us more than anyone and doesn't even impact us negativelyn because long-range hero sniping was never part of our plan.

Imagine a list with ton of grimwraths that simply can't be shot before they are all in charge range of the opponent lmao.

This season may be much better than expected.

[Lord Krungharr]

I think the increase on the invocations and Battlesmith isn't really justified, maybe on the Infernoth.  But yeah, the new hero-hiding will help!  Wondering if it's worth trying to fit in the Runic Fyrewall to block movement.  Doesn't seem worth it over taking the Infernoth.  

I've got 4 Grimwraths built, the Runemaster for a general and the Battlesmith.  I've got enough bodies for 5 more Grimwraths, but will run Gotrek w 2 more until I can get the new hammer-dude, as he seems worth it over a Grimwrath to help the others.

[Doko]

seems we are back to botton tier next season.

every competitive build used vulkites and the flamekeeper.

now that atack in two rows have been deleted the vulkites come back to be useless and umplayables in block of 30 and also the nerf to atack when die.....

so now that vulkites are useless and auric continue being the worst unit in entire aos then we only have hearthguard as playable unit but even then they got a nerf.

 

i dont get who is the genious in gw that think a unit with 8,8 damage rend1 as hearthguard cost 160 but other units with same damage as idoneth thralls cost 120.

i know i usually i am pretty negative but i hope im wrong,but i think this season our best(and even our best gonna be low middle tier) list gonna be the spam grimwrath heroe with one or two unit of vulkites to use to give look out sir to the heroes and the magmadroth spam list.

[Lord Krungharr]

To be fair, if Fyreslayers had more than 4 units outside the hero slot they might be able to do more things at a higher tier.

They need some volcanic baby magmadroth/ salamander riders for cavalry, and probably some artillery ie. Flame cannon. 

Besides HGBs they could use a heavier infantry unit with runic armor, something unique perhaps that could either cast prayers, and have their own little set of them, or be beacons for channeling prayers further like Skink whatevers do for Seraphon, or the spell portal does for spells.    

almost seems like they should have some guys who could ride the hot thermal vent currents and fly,....and maybe cause magma.cracks in the ground for beam attacks of some sort (draw a line across units for D3 MW each on a 3+, etc)

[Lord Krungharr]

Oops, nevermind.  I see after I updated the app the Grimhold Exile is in the right&proper Fyreslayers army list.  Here's my list vs my Clan Eshin for practice next time:

Greyfyrd

Auric Runemaster (general, master priest, volatile brazier)

Battlesmith (nullsidian icon)

Grimhold Exile (what artefact to use?)

3x5 Auric Hearthguards

6 Grimwrath Berzerkers

Gotrek

Infernoth

But I can't decide, should I go with 2 Battle Regiments?  Or w 2 Warlord Battalions to get some more artefacts on a couple Grimwraths?  Can't even remember what Fyreslayers artefacts there are besides the ones I put in the list, but as I recall aren't there only ones for Priests and Runefathers/Sons?  Don't have my tome with me.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Lord Krungharr

[Azamar]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

 

But I can't decide, should I go with 2 Battle Regiments?  Or w 2 Warlord Battalions to get some more artefacts on a couple Grimwraths?  Can't even remember what Fyreslayers artefacts there are besides the ones I put in the list, but as I recall aren't there only ones for Priests and Runefathers/Sons?  Don't have my tome with me.

 

 

The last artefact list has the nulsidian icon, along with the draught of ale to double attacks once per game, and the demon slayer, which ignores wards

[Tinniez]

On 7/7/2023 at 11:50 AM, Doko said:

seems we are back to botton tier next season.

every competitive build used vulkites and the flamekeeper.

I do understand the disappointment in point changes, but this is a massive overreaction lol.

Let's look at what we do have going for us, as we enter the new season:

• We have seen success with Grimwrath heavy lists and even some Lofnir lists.
• We have a solid core of troops with ward saves and 2" reach.
• We have almost guaranteed access to the Nullstone enhancements.
• We have priests and potent prayers, which wizards cannot interact with.
• Our heroes have been buffed by the Look Out Sir! changes.

Fyreslayers had a lot going for them in the last book. It is normal to not be pleased by point increases, but please, let's keep things in perspective.

[Doko]

lol the increase in points is the lesser of the nerfs that we got and also if you read my post,i allready said that our best lists gonna be magma spam and grimwrath spam.

the biggest nerf is the atack in two ranks gone that absolutely destroy and kill any build with vulkites,and without vulkites then the flamekepeer is useless also because it isnt worth it buff it with hearthguards.

btw the solid core of troops with ward save are the hearthguard? because if it is..............there are many persons in competitive groups allready rolling on the floor of how heck hearthguard got a nerf but chaos warrior a buff and saurus warriors.

 

hearthguards are a joke if we compare them to chaos warriors or saurus warriors and only cost 20 and 40 more points, heck they have save 3 and not 5, and also 20 wounds allways and not only when wholy withing6" and the hearthguard have 8,8 damage when chaos warrior have 12 damage and a big etc.

hearthguards must cost 140 and even then they would be terrible in competitive due to the joke wholy within6 ward that is too much punishing

[ledha]

On 7/8/2023 at 6:55 PM, Doko said:

lol the increase in points is the lesser of the nerfs that we got and also if you read my post,i allready said that our best lists gonna be magma spam and grimwrath spam.

the biggest nerf is the atack in two ranks gone that absolutely destroy and kill any build with vulkites,and without vulkites then the flamekepeer is useless also because it isnt worth it buff it with hearthguards.

btw the solid core of troops with ward save are the hearthguard? because if it is..............there are many persons in competitive groups allready rolling on the floor of how heck hearthguard got a nerf but chaos warrior a buff and saurus warriors.

 

hearthguards are a joke if we compare them to chaos warriors or saurus warriors and only cost 20 and 40 more points, heck they have save 3 and not 5, and also 20 wounds allways and not only when wholy withing6" and the hearthguard have 8,8 damage when chaos warrior have 12 damage and a big etc.

hearthguards must cost 140 and even then they would be terrible in competitive due to the joke wholy within6 ward that is too much punishing

While i agree HGB could be better, i don't think comparing warscroll to warscroll is always relevant, ESPECIALLY when fyreslayers count more on army wide buffs and others to make the difference. Our base warscrolls aren't great, but no one reliably can pile-up as many buffs as we do.

Sure, HGB at base are worse than chaos warriors ( and sorry but 40 pts difference is still a lot), but chaos warriors don't have a ward against everything, aren't in an army with access to 4+ rally, don't have the ability to strike first when charged, don't have a 2" range (except with halberd, which don't hit as hard as swords) or don't have the runes (+1 rend or +1 to hit is a hell of a difference).

I play fyreslayers and often played against STD and so far, none of the chaos warrior/melee centric everchosen armies i faced found a good answer to a block of 15 HGB supported by a runeson.

Regarding the vulkites, i agree they can go straight to the bin, as offensive tools. I don't think flamekeeper become bad, it's just that now, vulkite death will fuel HGB and no 20-man units of vulkites.

Also you basically HAVE to take at least a unit of 10 shield for scoring their very easy battle tactic.

Edited July 16, 2023 by ledha

[Lord Krungharr]

If Chaos Warriors get a good Hoarfrost roll these days, Marked w Nurgle, and Daemonic Power thrown on them, they can ruin many units' day.  But with the retinue effect of the HGBs/Runeson or Father, I agree they have great advantage over many!  But for now I'm just running the absolutely terrible Auric HGs for battleline and Grimwrath spam, with either Gotrek or teleporty Stormcast allies as the mood strikes me.  I did practice with them vs my Clan Eshin army.....

Clan Eshin w Deceiver, Lord Skreech, 3 Deathmasters, Arch Warlock w Ratling Gun, and 3x10 Gutter Runners, plus Slynk-pack (as the tournament for which I was practicing permits a free Underworlds Warband).

Fyreguys had Auric Runemaster (master priest, volatile brazier, Infernoth invocation), Battlesmith w nulsidian Icon, Grimhold Exile w Manticore Venom, 6 Grimwrath Berzerkers (1 had Magmalt Ale, 1 had Daemon Slayer), and 3x5 Auric Hearthguards, and the Farstriders for the free warband.

I did Nexus Collapse (new mission) but kinda forgot about all the Primal Magic stuff.  Might have changed things a bit but I was more wanting to get the hang of Fyreslayers, whilst also just honing my ninja skills on the other side.  I did 2 battle regiments for Eshin this time, plus Slynk, so 3 drops, and out dropped the dwarves, so let them go first (hoping for a double-turn).

Dwarves got 3 points for objectives turn 1, and even though I initially had them in the wrong locations, they woulda still gotten that part.  No tactic doable though.   My 3 foolishly clustered Deathmasters got Infernothed but survived.  Battlesmith, Runemaster, 5 AHGs, and 2 Grimwraths and Exile went to their right and shut down that Gnawhole.  Farstriders teleported to shut down the other hole.

Bottom T1-Deceiver Skitterlept over to a gnawhole, whilst Slynk-pack deepstruck to the opposite corner of my zone, trying to net Surround and Destroy.  Got that and all objectives for 5 points, erased 2x5 AHGs (who just really really suck by the way, but they're cheap battleline), and the Farstriders with Gutter Runners.  Had another unit of Gutters come in next to their hombase Gnawhole, and then also up by the Deceiver.  Deathmasters ran up to shoot the Grimwraths that had come to the center with 5 AHGs and Gotrek.  Arch Warlock and Ratling Gun just occupied the backfield objectives.

T2-  Eshin gets the double-turn WOOT!!!  Going for Led into the Maelstrom.  Skreech, who had run up 6" previously towards the Deceiver, charged with his Verminlord brother into the Battlesmith, etc, whilst Deathmasters shot at Grimwraths and 20 Gutter Runners went for Gotrek...but he redeployed 5" and only perhaps 5 or 6 of them could actually reach him and did 1 wound.  Successfully charged 3 units and luckily didn't kill all the heroes so at least 1 unit was still within 3" of an enemy.  AHGs went down to the stabby knives of the Gutters.

Bottom T2-  Gotrek handily erased the 10 Gutters near him and took another 2 wounds from Unleash Hell.  Fyreslayers were going for their Beastslayer tactic vs the Deceiver, and failed hard.  They got 1 point for objectives.

T3-Dwarves get the double turn!  A Grimwrath decided to try for an Honorable Death tactic.  He had 1 wound left, and was close to a very wounded Deathmaster.  He charged in furiously in his Finest Hour....and then suffered 6 MW from Unleash Hell and died, instead, and ignominious death.  GAME OVER as everything else died, aside from Gotrek, who was too slow to do anything but maybe kill more Gutter Runners.  Dwarves did at least get the Grand Strategy for the Infernoth who didn't disappear from rolling doubles (figured I'd roll for that).

I think the key with Grimwrath spam is to keep them inside a ring of AHGs, and move the whole army as 1 unit like a roving volcano to the center or single general direction.  If using Gotrek he can then kinda go on his own, but I think everything else needs to really stay together.  Some armies of course don't have deepstrikers so a wall might work alright in those cases, but gotta keep it tight for the bubble from the Battlesmith, and also for the Grimhold Exile's run'n'charge effect which should be used with the Rune of extra movement.

Next time I'll try these guys vs my Slaves to Darkness, who has no shooting at all.  And then my buddy's Gitz or Nurgle or Soulblight, it'll be a surprise.

[Doko]

On 7/16/2023 at 10:46 AM, ledha said:

While i agree HGB could be better, i don't think comparing warscroll to warscroll is always relevant, ESPECIALLY when fyreslayers count more on army wide buffs and others to make the difference. Our base warscrolls aren't great, but no one reliably can pile-up as many buffs as we do.

Sure, HGB at base are worse than chaos warriors ( and sorry but 40 pts difference is still a lot), but chaos warriors don't have a ward against everything, aren't in an army with access to 4+ rally, don't have the ability to strike first when charged, don't have a 2" range (except with halberd, which don't hit as hard as swords) or don't have the runes (+1 rend or +1 to hit is a hell of a difference).

I play fyreslayers and often played against STD and so far, none of the chaos warrior/melee centric everchosen armies i faced found a good answer to a block of 15 HGB supported by a runeson.

Regarding the vulkites, i agree they can go straight to the bin, as offensive tools. I don't think flamekeeper become bad, it's just that now, vulkite death will fuel HGB and no 20-man units of vulkites.

Also you basically HAVE to take at least a unit of 10 shield for scoring their very easy battle tactic.

i am not a expert on slaves but........i think they are the army with more and best buffs in the game. i think they can get rally4,+hit,wound and save,+attacks and a huge etc etc

 

first chaos warrior dont have war,but it is better than that, chaos warrior are 20 wounds with save 3 vs hgb 10 wounds with save 5 and ward4, in mathammer the ward4 is the same than double the wounds,so i said hgb have 20 wounds,because 10 wounds with ward 4 in practice is the same than 20 wounds without ward.

 

so yes chaos warriors have better in everything and by mathammer they are also better even with that extra 40 points(in fact to be balanced hgb cost is 130 and chaos warrior 220) 

 

also seems i wasnt pesimist,we have allready  3 weeks of data with new general hamdbook and fyreslayers are at the botton with 35% win rate...........

[Lord Krungharr]

Well that settles it...I need some Chaos Warriors!

[ledha]

On 7/23/2023 at 7:28 PM, Doko said:

 

so yes chaos warriors have better in everything and by mathammer they are also better even with that extra 40 points(in fact to be balanced hgb cost is 130 and chaos warrior 220) 

 

 

Which mean you could take 15 HGB for less points than 20 warriors, which would be nonsense, i encourage to try to make both fight each other and see how it goes for the 20 poor warriors lol.

Also, no,, STD can't pile-up as many buffs as the FS do. You can very easily end up with HGB making 3 attacks with 2+/2+/-2/4 with strike first when charged, warriors will never come close to that.

Also right now fyreslayers have a 47% winrate and STD a 44% one so eh...

There is even someone who reached 4th place in the outlaw GT with a flamekeeper + vulkite spam list, despite it being weaker than before because of the loss of galletian veterans. Meanwhile, the first slave to darkness player reached the 26th place.

Edited August 6, 2023 by ledha

[Doko]

fyreslayers are the worst army rigth now.

 

oh and also your example,a figth of 15hgb(480) against 20 chaos warriors(400) gonna win the chaos warriors allways if they attack first and even going second win chaos warrior also

 

only for clarify:

15 hgb 480 points(lets ignore the hero cost)

    30 wounds with 5save and ward 4

   26'5 rend 1 damage

 

20 chaos warriors 400 points(and a sorcerer that we ignore because cost as the dwarf hero)

    40 wounds save 3 and ward with mortals

    55'5 rend 1 damage(with khorne mark,his +1 attack +1 hit and wound from sorcerer)

 

so if chaos warriors attack first do 18'5after save wounds killing half of the dwarfs unit

if dwarfs attack first they do 13 after save wounds to chaos killing only 6 models.

 

so you can see that for 80 less points the chaos warriors win the figth by a huge margin

Edited August 6, 2023 by Doko

[Lord Krungharr]

If the HGBs have the hero in range, their ward save will certainly help keep them alive vs any incarnation of 20 Chaos Warriors.  HOWEVER if the Warriors are marked Nurgle with the Eroding Icon, and get Daemonic Power and Oracular Visions (both from a foot Sorcerer ) on them, I think it would be a looooong grind and the Warriors would end up a big stalemate.

[Doko]

also now that we have cities here is a shame how bad is fyreslayers.

im so hyped for play my dispossesed lol

the new dwarfking + hammerers is almost 100% the same mechanic that our retinue but better in every aspect.

both runefather/son and wardenking ignore with a 4 the wound BUT the runeking is a ward so only ignore it meanwhile fyreslayer get one wound the hgb.

and hgb for 160 have 10 wounds with save 5 ward 4 and 8,8 rend1 damage while hammerers have for 150 10 wounds with save 4 ward 5 with the order and 17'6 rend 2 damage.

 

the comparation of our retinue against our mountain brother is so shamefull hahahha

wardenking have better bodyguard rule,hammerers have double damage and double rend than hgb and for less points.

 

i think my fyreslayers gonna get dust for a loooooong time untill a new book and i gonna have fun with my dispossesed

[Lord Krungharr]

While I was sad that the Runelord lost his unbind with +2, being able to buff a block of 20-30? Hammerers or Longbeards w Greataxes to rend -3 is amazing!  I mean actually the Regiment of Reknown with the Dispossessed is better than it was I think isn't it?  Might be worth taking with a RuneFather on Droth with the Duardrizhal thing, to let the Dispossessed use the Runes.  Rend-4 or -5 dudes?!?  Very spicy.

[Doko]

yes really both runelord and wardenking have been nerfed so much that when i do list i only bring them for the orders,because the warscroll of both is mediocre.

its 100% dont worth spend 100 points in the runelord to have 50% chance to give 1 rend only

 

oh also other shame:

 

new citys ejecutioners for 170 do 6 mortals wound and 17 rend 1 damage when our hgb for 160 are only 3 mortals and 4,4 no rend damage

hahah this comparation HURTS

Edited August 7, 2023 by Doko

[ledha]

On 8/6/2023 at 4:19 PM, Doko said:

fyreslayers are the worst army rigth now.

 

oh and also your example,a figth of 15hgb(480) against 20 chaos warriors(400) gonna win the chaos warriors allways if they attack first and even going second win chaos warrior also

 

only for clarify:

15 hgb 480 points(lets ignore the hero cost)

    30 wounds with 5save and ward 4

   26'5 rend 1 damage

 

20 chaos warriors 400 points(and a sorcerer that we ignore because cost as the dwarf hero)

    40 wounds save 3 and ward with mortals

    55'5 rend 1 damage(with khorne mark,his +1 attack +1 hit and wound from sorcerer)

 

so if chaos warriors attack first do 18'5after save wounds killing half of the dwarfs unit

if dwarfs attack first they do 13 after save wounds to chaos killing only 6 models.

 

so you can see that for 80 less points the chaos warriors win the figth by a huge margin

Ok i don't know if you are trolling at this point so it's my last answer

first, real game =/= mathammers. Your comparison make no sense because of 3 points :

- first, you assume every chaos warrior are in range of attacking. Any person who actually played the game will tell you that you'll rarely have everyone in a 10man unit in range to strike. Assuming the entire unit of chaos warriors will be able to attack is delusional. If they have spears, maybe they can. But then you hit on 4+.

- You also then give a chaos sorcerer as a back up for the chaos warriors. Why ? If you were at least honest in your comparison, you'd give a runesmitter for the HGB to have a +1 to wound. Comparing a buffed unit vs a unbuffed unit is stupid and you knows it. Givinga "free" hero to the HGB is dishonest because they don't need a specific hero, just another hero running around, while your chaos warriors need the sorcerer to be dedicated to them.

- you somehow forget the fyreslayers have runes. I played countless games and my HGB always have an offensive runes before facing ennemies, even moree with slaves to darkness. Why did you ?

So yeah, your comparison is ******, you put a buffed unit of CW who are somehow all in range of attacking vs a unit of HGB who don't have buff nor rune.

In the real world, when your chaos warriors face my HGB, they'll take 46 attacks 3+/3+/-2/2 in the face (because the once per game runefather ability is made for these occasionsà and get vaporized before doing anything of note.

 

You see, if your mathammers are so good, how do you explain a vulkite spam list doing so well in a tournament ? On paper they are ******, aren't they ?

 

Also, METAWATCH confirm fyreslayers are above slaves to darkness in winrates. Any com except a badly made screenshot of a spanish website ? : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/17/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-metawatch-the-battle-for-andtor/

By the way, your executionner rant is nice, but executionners have 10 wounds and a 4+ save for 170 pts, meaning they are in paper and so they'll get destroyed by HGB or vulkites because of strike first and/or strike on death. When attacking 5 unbuffed poleaxe HGB without rune (the worse version btw), 5 of them (aka, half of the unit) will die before attacking (3 mortals + 4 wounds at save 4+ which make 2 more deads) lmao.

[Doko]

dude i gonna stop answer you because if you dont know maths or mathammer is stupid continue this disscusion.

in mathammer chaos warrior are better than hgb unbufed boths or buffed both,also chaos buffs(khorne,nurgle etc) are also better than our useless runes that only have two usefull while chaos is for entire game.

i got in count the chaos mark because is a pasive in entire game and i didnt counter any rune because they are only one turn in entire game so its nonsense do a comparation of dwarfs with rune when this only gonna happen 1/5 of the games.

also gw data is allways wrong,as every web that get data knows,gw get every single data,even only friendly one game in their store so gw data is useless.and worse even they admit that this data isnt even only of the new general and have data of old general yet

every other web get only data of tournaments with 5 rounds and 20+ players.

these webs show fyreslayers at the botton as my pic showed.

 

buy hey,i dont care your opinion,you can think fyreslayers are better than slaves and hgb are better than chaos warriors for all i care lool

 

and that is vs chaos knigths.

 

now vs the mew black guard of citys is a joke:

 

black guard 140:10 w 4s ward4 close to sorcerer same profile damage than hgb, move 6 and +1 to charge

hgb 160: 10w 5s ward4 close to hero, move 4 and no music or standard.

so.........the same stats,but black guard have +2 move,+1 save,+1 charge...........and cost 20 less 😭😭😭😭 is really a joke how hgb cost 160 when must cost 130

Edited August 17, 2023 by Doko

[ledha]

11 hours ago, Doko said:

dude i gonna stop answer you because if you dont know maths or mathammer is stupid continue this disscusion.

in mathammer chaos warrior are better than hgb unbufed boths or buffed both,also chaos buffs(khorne,nurgle etc) are also better than our useless runes that only have two usefull while chaos is for entire game.

i got in count the chaos mark because is a pasive in entire game and i didnt counter any rune because they are only one turn in entire game so its nonsense do a comparation of dwarfs with rune when this only gonna happen 1/5 of the games.

also gw data is allways wrong,as every web that get data knows,gw get every single data,even only friendly one game in their store so gw data is useless.and worse even they admit that this data isnt even only of the new general and have data of old general yet

every other web get only data of tournaments with 5 rounds and 20+ players.

these webs show fyreslayers at the botton as my pic showed.

 

buy hey,i dont care your opinion,you can think fyreslayers are better than slaves and hgb are better than chaos warriors for all i care lool

 

and that is vs chaos knigths.

 

now vs the mew black guard of citys is a joke:

 

black guard 140:10 w 4s ward4 close to sorcerer same profile damage than hgb, move 6 and +1 to charge

hgb 160: 10w 5s ward4 close to hero, move 4 and no music or standard.

so.........the same stats,but black guard have +2 move,+1 save,+1 charge...........and cost 20 less 😭😭😭😭 is really a joke how hgb cost 160 when must cost 130

I didn't refer only to GW metawatch, you keep ignoring every other relevant links i gave you.

Your comparison of black guards vs HGB is dumb because black guards don't have access to 20% of the buffs HGB can (you KEEP comparing base warscrolls vs base warscrolls which is a mistake especially when talking about fyreslayers), and need to be 3" of a specific hero to have their 4++, which is way more restrictive than HGB who need to be 9" of any hero.

You are honestly embarassing

[Doko]

8 hours ago, ledha said:

You are honestly embarassing

 

8 hours ago, ledha said:

Your comparison of black guards vs HGB is dumb because black guards don't have access to 20% of the buffs HGB

dude you are who is hard to read and have 0 idea about math and units.

so the fyreslayers have acess to only a prayer of +1 wound and that is all,after have many one time per game buffs that are useless doing a comparation of units with one buff of only one time when they have other 4 turns without that buff.

lets compare your genious statement of black guards dont get acess to 20 % of the buffs of hgb;

hgb buffs:

   -+1 wound prayer

  - a -1 to be wounded

and that is all, then have many one time per game that are useless 4/5 of the turns

 

black guard:

    -allways attack first when charge

   -move extra 3"

  -can charge in enemy turn and get +1 rend

  -can disengage and them charge

   -a spell to ignore save of enemy unit

   -mystic shield that hgb cant because dont have mage

so hgb can get one ofensive buff and one defensive buff while black guard get 6 buffs...........so hgb are who dont get 20% of the buffs of the black guards that is the oposite to your statement.

 

btw now that is obvious that you dont have idea i gonna only put you on ignore and so both can be more happy

Edited August 18, 2023 by Doko

[Azamar]

3 hours ago, Doko said:

 

 

hgb buffs:

   -+1 wound prayer

  - a -1 to be wounded

4+ rally

+1 damage (or charge in combat phase or fight on death, but realistically you’ll take the damage)

Sharing combat activation with rune father or son

Run and charge prayer or to move per game with the new hero

once per game strike first when charged

once per game extra rend

once per game +1 to hit 

once per game mortals on 6s

once per game +1 attack (lord of the lodge 

Thought I’d fix that for you. Those are the buffs available off the top of my head. Deliberately didn’t include enhanced rune effects as they’re unreliable, but devastating when they do go off (specifically awakened steel or fury)

Discounting the once per game abilities is… well you might as well discount the whole faction. Especially the runes which last at minimum 2 turns. Getting the right ones active at the right time is pretty much the key to playing 3.0 fyreslayers. With buffs they’re pretty good. Get them into combat with the right buffs up and they’re “chef’s kiss”. 
 

I’m not saying black guard aren’t good- they might be vying for position of best infantry in the game and are probably too cheap right now. But get enough damage in first or kill their accompanying sorceress and they’re in trouble. Hearthguard do better in both those scenarios, thanks to their counter charge, and their fantastic version of the bodyguard rule. 
 

I’m probably wasting my breath, but my hearthguard always perform well for me. 
 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Black Guard are just that, guards.  They are certainly no HGBs, and you can't dump wounds onto them like a Runefather can to HGBs.  I'm definitely taking 10 when I take  Sorceress, but they won't be a full-on Battleline assortment like HGBs.  Fyreslayers are much more about army-wide cohesion, and for me when I played them, a slow-moving volcano that can (if needed) spill the lava-flows out.  But they function better with tightly packed infantry. 

The Magmadroths though, they can be much more independent.  Were I to get back in the forge, I'd go Lofnir.  Thinking about getting at least a Runesmiter on Droth for a Cities ally.  Priest AND a Monster, good stuff....couple that with a Steam Tank Commander of Lethis with the Priest, you could be ignoring ward saves and getting Rend-3 Droth breath turn 2.  SPICY