CommissarRotke Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, feadair said: Battlemage (115)* Was it a Ghur battlemage for the charge bonus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: Was it a Ghur battlemage for the charge bonus? That would be my guess, but it was not specified where I got the list from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 10 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: Was it a Ghur battlemage for the charge bonus? Or just a +1 mystic shield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, PJetski said: Or just a +1 mystic shield They had 10 points left over and could have gone for Knight-Incantor instead, so there had to be a damned good reason for the Battlemage. Edited February 10, 2022 by feadair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 This list did well in a 50+ player tournament in Italy; I believe it went 4-1 and came third: Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Beast Master - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty LEADERS M S W B Knight-Draconis (300)* 12" 3+ 11 8 - General - Command Trait: Battle-lust - Artefact: Drakescale Armour - Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts Lord-Relictor (145)* 5" 3+ 6 9 - Prayer: Translocation UNITS M S W B 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* 12" 3+ 9 8 - Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* 12" 3+ 9 8 - Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* 12" 3+ 9 8 - Drakerider's Lance 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)* 5" 4+ 2 7 CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley TOTAL: 1945/2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Three Stormcast lists in the top 8 in Beachhead 2022 (70+ players). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Three lists also went 5-1 in the TTS Tournament ReRelease the Beast 2 - Winter is Coming (104 players, but there's probably quite a few having dropped along the way, it was one game per week I believe). Spoiler Mathmallow Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Tempest Lords- Grand Strategy: Beast Master - Triumphs: Inspired Leaders Celestant-Prime, Hammer of Sigmar (325)* Knight-Draconis (300)*- General- Command Trait: Shock and Awe - Artefact: Luckstone - Mount Trait: Thunderous Presence Battleline 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 1985 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 91 Drops: 1 Spoiler Alex Bulavinov Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals Army Type: Scions of the Storm Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar Triump: Inspired Grand Strategy: Beast Master Core Battalions Battle Regiment Knight-Draconis (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Enhancements Command Traits: Battle-lust Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny Mount Traits: Celestial Instincts Celestant-Prime Battalion Slot Filled: Sub- Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Points Cost: 325 pts Stormdrake Guard with Lances Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: BattlelinePoints Cost: 340 pts Stormdrake Guard with Lances Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 340 pts Stormdrake Guard with Lances Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 680 pts Total Points: 1985 pts Spoiler Anttu Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals - Army Type: Scions of the Storm - Army Subfaction: Hallowed Knights Triumph: Inspired - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Every unit in battle reg for a 1 drop LEADER Gardus Steel Soul (150) Knight-Draconis (300)- General- Master of Magic- Arcane tome- Celestial Blades- mount trait: Celestial Insticts Lord-Relictor (145)- Translocation BATTLELINE Liberators (115) - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield Liberators (115) - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield 1 x Stormdrake Guard (680) - Drakerider’s Lance OTHER 1 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480) Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley TOTAL POINTS: (1985/2000) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volkmair Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 While Stormdrake Guard are obviously the best monsters available to Stormcast, are there any others worth taking or allying in? While very good the Stormdrake Guard look a right pain to transport especially if using cases that you can reasonably take on public transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Volkmair said: While Stormdrake Guard are obviously the best monsters available to Stormcast, are there any others worth taking or allying in? While very good the Stormdrake Guard look a right pain to transport especially if using cases that you can reasonably take on public transport. Stormcast monsters are: Knight-Draconis/Stormdrake Guard Stardrake Taurelion Krondy's/Karazai Of the non-stromdrakes, the stardrake is thoroughly mediocre, and needs to lose ~100 points from its warscroll if it wants to become playable (and it might not be good even then). I mean, seriously, a stardrake does less damage than a squad of 2 stormdrake guard, and is only better than a Knight-Draconis vs 5+ saves (all while costing 500 points to their 340/300). Also, someone needs to explain to me why exactly the Knight-Draconis RIDER is better in melee than the Lord-Celestant... the lord celestant gets 2 less attacks and has 1 less rend than the Knight-Draconis does. And before someone brings the Drakesworn Templar into this, let me remind you that for some reason that is rocking a 4+ SAVE!?! WHY!?! Yes, the stardrakes have 18 wounds compared to the Knight-Draconis's 11, and the stardrake can choose models to kill with its cavernous jaws at the start of combat rather than dragged into the tempest's 1 model at the end, but I'm still seriously questioning things here. Next up, the Taurelion is good. He buffs nearby units with +1 to hit, which can save you some CP when shooting your vanguard raptors on 2+/2+, or he can stay close to some stormdrakes or fulminators or whatever for that same bonus. He's also a 3+ save monster and a wizard. All this being said, in about half a dozen or so games in 3.0, I'm not sure if mine has ever actually gotten into combat, as I generally am just using him as a mobile buff piece. Finally, Krondy's and Karazai. These guys are BIG, and hard to transport, which isn't really helping you for transport. That being said, consensus seems to be that they aren't worth 600 points in an army, but if you want to build around them go to town. Notable here is that both the Knight-Draconis AND the Taurelion are monsters, but they aren't behemoths, so they don't count against your behemoth limit, but also can't benefit from Master of the Celestial Menagerie (it got FAQ'd to behemoths not monsters). -------------- As for coalition and allies: Coalition in a stormkeep allows you to bring Cities of Sigmar units. Notable here is that while stormcast in a Cities army gain the cities keywords, Cities units in a Stormcast Army don't... not that there are any allegience abilities of note that you would want to use on them, but it does also prevent them from taking Stormcast Spells/prayers (so no runelords with translocation). As for monsters worth Coalitioning in, the Annointed on Frostheart Phoenix is good as a mobile debuff piece, whether taken as an ally or taken as coalition (just be aware that its damage output is kind of low). Otherwise, the rest of the monsters are notable in being rather bad, not in being worth bringing. For other allies, Stormcast can ally in basically anything except daughters of Khaine. Looking at potential monsters from there, Magmadroth's aren't worth running (new warscrolls pending). Deepkin allows you to take the Turtle (unless its points go up), but the turtle tends to be better as a buff piece in IdK, not a combat monster. Lumineth Realm Lords can give you either Avalenor or the Spirit of the Mountain, which I'm not particularly familiar with, but I have a feeling if they were actually good would show up in Lumineth Lists from time to time. Seraphon gives you Bastiladon's, Stegadons, various Hero Stegadons, Troglodons, and Carnosaurs, which all have the advantage of being big, cool dinosaurs, but also all tend to need some of the Seraphon Allegience Abilities to shine, and may not be the best allies... however one of these is probably second best after the Frostheart Phoenix. Finally, Sylvaneth can give you various treelord flavors, but the basic treelord is... not worth 180 points, the Spirit of Durthu really needs a wyldwood to shine, and the Treelord Ancient is a support piece, not a combat monster. Overall, I would probably rank the Frostheart Phoenix as the first choice of allies, followed by your favorite flavor of Dinosaur, and then stick the Turtle in 3rd place for monsters worth bringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 Tauralon is objectively the best MONSTER in our book and I will die on this hill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 11 hours ago, Marcvs said: Three lists also went 5-1 in the TTS Tournament ReRelease the Beast 2 - Winter is Coming (104 players, but there's probably quite a few having dropped along the way, it was one game per week I believe). Hide contents Mathmallow Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Tempest Lords- Grand Strategy: Beast Master - Triumphs: Inspired Leaders Celestant-Prime, Hammer of Sigmar (325)* Knight-Draconis (300)*- General- Command Trait: Shock and Awe - Artefact: Luckstone - Mount Trait: Thunderous Presence Battleline 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*- Drakerider's Lance Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 1985 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 91 Drops: 1 Reveal hidden contents Alex Bulavinov Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals Army Type: Scions of the Storm Subfaction: Hammers of Sigmar Triump: Inspired Grand Strategy: Beast Master Core Battalions Battle Regiment Knight-Draconis (General) Battalion Slot Filled: Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Enhancements Command Traits: Battle-lust Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny Mount Traits: Celestial Instincts Celestant-Prime Battalion Slot Filled: Sub- Commander Battlefield Role: Leader Points Cost: 325 pts Stormdrake Guard with Lances Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: BattlelinePoints Cost: 340 pts Stormdrake Guard with Lances Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Points Cost: 340 pts Stormdrake Guard with Lances Battalion Slot Filled: Troops Battlefield Role: Battleline Reinforced: Once Points Cost: 680 pts Total Points: 1985 pts Reveal hidden contents Anttu Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals - Army Type: Scions of the Storm - Army Subfaction: Hallowed Knights Triumph: Inspired - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line Every unit in battle reg for a 1 drop LEADER Gardus Steel Soul (150) Knight-Draconis (300)- General- Master of Magic- Arcane tome- Celestial Blades- mount trait: Celestial Insticts Lord-Relictor (145)- Translocation BATTLELINE Liberators (115) - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield Liberators (115) - Heavens-wrought Weapon and Sigmarite Shield 1 x Stormdrake Guard (680) - Drakerider’s Lance OTHER 1 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480) Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley TOTAL POINTS: (1985/2000) Such variation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 20 hours ago, feadair said: Three Stormcast lists in the top 8 in Beachhead 2022 (70+ players). The list that came third (won 4, drew against Seraphon): Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals – Stormhost: Tempest Lords (Scions of the Storm) – Grand Strategy: Beast Master – Triumphs: LEADERS Karazai, The Scarred (600) Knight-Draconis (300)* – General – Command Trait: Shock and Awe – Artefact: Luckstone – Mount Trait: Thunderous Presence BATTLELINE 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* – Drakerider’s Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* – Drakerider’s Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* – Drakerider’s Lance UNITS 5 x Tree-Revenants (80)* – Allies CORE BATTALIONS *Battle Regiment Total: 2000 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 80 / 400 Wounds: 88 Drops: 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) Just rereading the stormhost rules because I'm a bit bored of just defaulting to Hammers every time, and Anvils caught my eye. I had, as many others did, dismissed them as a bit rubbish without really looking into it, but I thought 2 damage negated on > bravery might not be all that bad compared to a 6+ ward, I figured it might be a tiny bit worse and obviously fall off against large amounts of damage, but against damage ~8-10 I thought it might be alright and maybe worth playing about with just to see if it's nice being able to get it everywhere rather than only within 12" of an objective. I then ran the numbers. I picked 7 as a fairly average bravery (although obviously it depends on the army: good luck making this work against Death armies) and it turns out that the breakpoint at which a 6+ ward becomes better is... 5 damage. It's only just a tiny bit better, but once you hit 6 damage it's quite a bit better. As long as a unit with 7 bravery is expected to do 5 or more damage after saves, a 6+ ward is pretty significantly better. Obviously the higher the bravery goes the better the ward seems in comparison. And that's assuming this is all taking place in the combat phase. Anvils does nothing vs shooting or spells. Just a shame because it's a kinda neat idea, and it's almost at least decent. If it was just greater than or equal to bravery, rather than only greater than, it'd double the chances vs death, and go from 40%-ish to just under 60% chance vs bravery 7, and it still wouldn't be super duper excellent, it might just about be a sidegrade vs Hammers due to being board-wide. That's a shame. Oh well, one less thing to try out Edited February 14, 2022 by Dogmantra 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volkmair Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) Quote 12 hours ago, readercolin said: Stormcast monsters are: Knight-Draconis/Stormdrake Guard Stardrake Taurelion Krondy's/Karazai Of the non-stromdrakes, the stardrake is thoroughly mediocre, and needs to lose ~100 points from its warscroll if it wants to become playable (and it might not be good even then). I mean, seriously, a stardrake does less damage than a squad of 2 stormdrake guard, and is only better than a Knight-Draconis vs 5+ saves (all while costing 500 points to their 340/300). Also, someone needs to explain to me why exactly the Knight-Draconis RIDER is better in melee than the Lord-Celestant... the lord celestant gets 2 less attacks and has 1 less rend than the Knight-Draconis does. And before someone brings the Drakesworn Templar into this, let me remind you that for some reason that is rocking a 4+ SAVE!?! WHY!?! Yes, the stardrakes have 18 wounds compared to the Knight-Draconis's 11, and the stardrake can choose models to kill with its cavernous jaws at the start of combat rather than dragged into the tempest's 1 model at the end, but I'm still seriously questioning things here. Next up, the Taurelion is good. He buffs nearby units with +1 to hit, which can save you some CP when shooting your vanguard raptors on 2+/2+, or he can stay close to some stormdrakes or fulminators or whatever for that same bonus. He's also a 3+ save monster and a wizard. All this being said, in about half a dozen or so games in 3.0, I'm not sure if mine has ever actually gotten into combat, as I generally am just using him as a mobile buff piece. Finally, Krondy's and Karazai. These guys are BIG, and hard to transport, which isn't really helping you for transport. That being said, consensus seems to be that they aren't worth 600 points in an army, but if you want to build around them go to town. Notable here is that both the Knight-Draconis AND the Taurelion are monsters, but they aren't behemoths, so they don't count against your behemoth limit, but also can't benefit from Master of the Celestial Menagerie (it got FAQ'd to behemoths not monsters). -------------- As for coalition and allies: Coalition in a stormkeep allows you to bring Cities of Sigmar units. Notable here is that while stormcast in a Cities army gain the cities keywords, Cities units in a Stormcast Army don't... not that there are any allegience abilities of note that you would want to use on them, but it does also prevent them from taking Stormcast Spells/prayers (so no runelords with translocation). As for monsters worth Coalitioning in, the Annointed on Frostheart Phoenix is good as a mobile debuff piece, whether taken as an ally or taken as coalition (just be aware that its damage output is kind of low). Otherwise, the rest of the monsters are notable in being rather bad, not in being worth bringing. For other allies, Stormcast can ally in basically anything except daughters of Khaine. Looking at potential monsters from there, Magmadroth's aren't worth running (new warscrolls pending). Deepkin allows you to take the Turtle (unless its points go up), but the turtle tends to be better as a buff piece in IdK, not a combat monster. Lumineth Realm Lords can give you either Avalenor or the Spirit of the Mountain, which I'm not particularly familiar with, but I have a feeling if they were actually good would show up in Lumineth Lists from time to time. Seraphon gives you Bastiladon's, Stegadons, various Hero Stegadons, Troglodons, and Carnosaurs, which all have the advantage of being big, cool dinosaurs, but also all tend to need some of the Seraphon Allegience Abilities to shine, and may not be the best allies... however one of these is probably second best after the Frostheart Phoenix. Finally, Sylvaneth can give you various treelord flavors, but the basic treelord is... not worth 180 points, the Spirit of Durthu really needs a wyldwood to shine, and the Treelord Ancient is a support piece, not a combat monster. Overall, I would probably rank the Frostheart Phoenix as the first choice of allies, followed by your favorite flavor of Dinosaur, and then stick the Turtle in 3rd place for monsters worth bringing. Cool, cheers for such an in-depth breakdown, though going off the tournament lists being posted the battletome might end up being renamed Battletome: Stormdrake Guard at this rate. Edited February 14, 2022 by Volkmair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, Volkmair said: Cool, cheers for such an in-depth breakdown, though going off the tournament lists being posted the battletome might end up being renamed Battletome: Stormdrake Guard at this rate. Ehh, don't worry, Stormdrake Guard are going to get another round of nerfs the next rebalance (is that going to be Generals Handbook 2022 or something this spring though?). At this point, I expect a massive points hike (400 per pair) and/or a warscroll re-write. Going to 400 per pair is going to drop the list from Knight-Draconis + 10 guard to Knight-Draconis + 8 guard, and then 100 points to spare, or 2 Knight-Draconis + 6 guard and 140 points to spare. If they do a warscroll errata, I would expect them to just remove the hero phase move from the Guard, and possibly also the hero phase shoot from the knight. All this being said, I also expect the meta to adjust some as people get used to playing vs stormdrake lists, and that more people will bring out tools to counter them. I also expect those meta adjustments to happen after GW has internally made their points adjustments/errata's, but before they release them so stormdrake lists will start to taper off due to meta adjustment, and then get pulverized by the nerf bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 SDG are such a badly designed unit. Their ludicrous capabilities are so anathema to a healthy game state they have to be nerfed into obscurity for them to feel fair. Also it's pretty vindicating seeing them perform so well after the pages and pages of melodrama about the prenerf. Imagine how much more everyone would hate SCE if they had dropped at their original price point lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba-Yaga Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 I’m considering starting a small force. I’ve looked at the below since it can be made cheaply and might look cool. How bad is this for a 1k list?: Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Commander Bastian Carthalos(300)5 x Vindictors (130)5 x Vindictors (130)3 x Annihilators (200)3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)Total: 1000 / 1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, Baba-Yaga said: I’m considering starting a small force. I’ve looked at the below since it can be made cheaply and might look cool. How bad is this for a 1k list?: Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Commander Bastian Carthalos(300)5 x Vindictors (130)5 x Vindictors (130)3 x Annihilators (200)3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)Total: 1000 / 1000 it is "bad" because it lacks a lord imperatant, which is basically necessary to play Annihilators (in order to give them a 7" charge). I would consider imperatant + something else (either a unit or a leader) instead of Bastian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Such variation hoping this doesn't mess with SCE data for the next GHB 🤪 Edited February 14, 2022 by CommissarRotke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: hoping this doesn't mess with SCE data for the next GHB 🤪 Since the drop of the Nurgle book in December (roughly when Stormdrakes started seeing play), we have a very good but not a stellar win rate of 56% and a very high prevalence (16%, which is more than double that of the next most popular faction). Unfortunately the combination of win rate and popularity calls for balancing if it persists. Edited February 15, 2022 by feadair 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, feadair said: balancing I mean nerfing. let‘s be real: GW nerfs while the rest of the bad units remain untouched. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 7 hours ago, JackStreicher said: I mean nerfing. let‘s be real: GW nerfs while the rest of the bad units remain untouched. Whac-A-Mole balancing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, JackStreicher said: I mean nerfing. let‘s be real: GW nerfs while the rest of the bad units remain untouched. I prefer to avoid the n-word, both because I think spades should be called sharp-edged rectangular digging tools and because an elegant way to solve the issue, if there is one, is to remove the conditional battleline for Stormdrakes, which is not a nerf in the classical sense. Edited February 15, 2022 by feadair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 25 minutes ago, feadair said: an elegant way to solve the issue, if there is one, is to remove the conditional battleline for Stormdrakes, which is not a nerf in the classical sense. as much as I like this option, this would only "fix" them in the spam sense and in stormcast. They seem to be doing pretty well in Cities (as all SCE warscrolls bar those who rely on scions / thunderbolt volley) and can't be battleline there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Yeah as we've seen removing conditional battleline would do nothing to fix the living cities with 4 dragons and 4 fulminators list. SCE internal balance is just junk atm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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