lare2 Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 4 hours ago, That Guy said: An attempt to a hero hammer build. Solid -1 to wound all across the board. A lot of units for WoT charges, so -1, -1 is not a strange occurrence here. I'm starting to think heroes are a great way to fish for WoT. They've a small presence and I've found that our units, being big, don't leave much space around an enemy unit. A hammer unit supported by 1-2 heroes could work well, especially considering how durable our heroes now are. Anywho, my list below for tomorrow night, which will most likely be against LotFP. - Army Faction: Nighthaunt - Subfaction: The Emerald Host - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line - Triumph: Bloodthirsty LEADERS Lord Executioner (140)* - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome - Spells: Flaming Weapon Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (155)* - General - Command Traits: Hatred of the Living - Artefacts of Power: Pendant of the Fell Wind Dreadblade Harrow (145)* Lady Olynder (340)*** - Spells: Shademist BATTLELINE Spirit Hosts (125)* Spirit Hosts (125)* Grimghast Reapers (320)** Grimghast Reapers (320)** Chainrasps (110)*** Chainrasps (110)*** Chainrasps (110)*** CORE BATTALIONS - *Warlord - **Hunters of the Heartlands - ***Battle Regiment TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000 The Grimghast are the hammers, with a screen each of Chainrasps. The KoSoES will go with one, the Dreadblade with the other, replicating the CA from the former. Lady O will offer support from midtable. The other Chainrasps are hunting objectives. First time running Lord Executioner and really curious to see how he does. Gonna deepstrike him in with the Spirit Hosts and just gun for the most desirable unit I can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dudemeister Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 1 hour ago, theophaniel said: I'm wondering if people have been able or see how the Krulghast Cruciator can work. The Krulghast to me is an offensive hero. As in, he protects my units that always go in for the kill or block a big beastie threat all game. In that role, he's especially reliable in Grieving Legions. * First of all, he has the same generic wholly within 12" restriction that we are very familiar with. So no difference between, say a Spirit Torment and him regarding to how you position relative to your troops. * Secondly the opponent cannot retreat, so he'll always be within range of a terrified unit through the guys he is babysitting. * Thirdly, an argument can be made that preventing damage can be stronger than resurrection. (Ever tried Lady O in the old book and waited to use her once-per-game d6 healing? Good riddance to that and HELLOOO 4+ ward). Once a unit is lost, you lose everything. And his damage mitigation is one of the best in the game against the right units. 300-500 points beaters killing a single Spirit Host under his protection is really neat. Elite infantry with 2-damage weapons become comically impotent He's just a different solution to a similar problem that you'd tackle with 20-30 Chainrasps or 20 Reapers that will be constantly healed up by Spirit torment and/or Guardian of Souls 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neck-Romantic Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Also look at MSU vs Attrition. If your units are wiped before the Torment can ressurect, then the Torment is useless. If you're getting shot at, the Cruciator is useless. Both serve similar roles with slightly different applications. It also depends on who you are up against. Personally I plan to take both. Blunting Behemoths, Heroes, and super elite infantry while regaining models in both turns per round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, theophaniel said: I'm wondering if people have been able or see how the Krulghast Cruciator can work. I mean, I look at the warscroll and see the -1 damage and think it's awsome. But then I look about the requirements. Within 12 of a terrified unit and wholly within 12 for the -1 dmg debuff. => This will only kick for 1 or maybe two units deathstaring, and if we get into combat. I feel like it's 150 points wasted in any heavy shooting match-up or when we can be denied being in combat. I know a lot of things can happen positionally for that to happen, sitting on an objective and getting close to chaff. But in a lot of case, the game being objective driven, I feel a spirit torment is superior in most of cases for 40 points less... I'm not convinced. Am I wrong there ? In addition to what @The_Dudemeister said: a Krulghast cruciator is probably a pretty good Vanishing target. Later on when you’re engaged with units preferably characters with 2+ damage and or elites, you pop him up. He can also immediately shoot out of teleporting, meaning he can be a good aid for Dreadscythe Harridan charges. Edited May 19, 2022 by That Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neck-Romantic Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Cruciator and Chainghasts both are great. Pop chainghasts down when and where you need the Torments aura so they dont get shot off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Hmmm.... - Army Faction: Nighthaunt - Subfaction: The Scarlet Doom - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line - Triumph: Indomitable LEADERS Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (155)* - Artefacts of Power: Pendant of the Fell Wind Spirit Torment (115)* - General - Command Traits: Cloaked in Shadow Guardian of Souls (150)* - Artefacts of Power: Lightshard of the Harvest Moon - Spells: Shademist Lady Olynder (340)*** - Spells: Seal of Shyish BATTLELINE Bladegheist Revenants (175)** Bladegheist Revenants (175)** Bladegheist Revenants (175)** Chainrasps (110)*** BEHEMOTH Black Coach (335) - Reaper Scythe OTHER Myrmourn Banshees (105)*** Chainghasts (95)*** ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS 1 x Emerald Lifeswarm (60) CORE BATTALIONS - *Command Entourage - **Hunters of the Heartlands - ***Vanguard TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000 Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 @EnixLHQ I'd suggest changing your grand strat. 3 units of bladegeist that are being used as your main hammer and a single chain ghast unit isn't all the durable. I suppose you could keep the chain ghast off the board for a few turns though. You don't have a heap of wizards so prized sorcerery probably wouldn't be that helpful either but have you considered Fright or Flight. You get 3 VP if none of your objectives are contested at the end of the game. Your list doesn't look list the sort of thing that sits on objectives to hold them. Thus, you're freed up to play agro, which I think is what your list wants to do. Just make sure on turn 5 you don't enter a combat on an object you can't clear and if you're on an objective, move off it if there's anything that can contest. It's a lot more reliable way secure the grand strat with the draw back that sometimes you'll hand the oppont one VP by abandoning an objective. Still, I think the reliability of it is better. Your more likely to come ahead on VP with this than loosing all 3 because the battle line got killed while also allowing you to use the battle line without having to worry about them dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Rors said: @EnixLHQ I'd suggest changing your grand strat. 3 units of bladegeist that are being used as your main hammer and a single chain ghast unit isn't all the durable. I suppose you could keep the chain ghast off the board for a few turns though. You don't have a heap of wizards so prized sorcerery probably wouldn't be that helpful either but have you considered Fright or Flight. You get 3 VP if none of your objectives are contested at the end of the game. Your list doesn't look list the sort of thing that sits on objectives to hold them. Thus, you're freed up to play agro, which I think is what your list wants to do. Just make sure on turn 5 you don't enter a combat on an object you can't clear and if you're on an objective, move off it if there's anything that can contest. It's a lot more reliable way secure the grand strat with the draw back that sometimes you'll hand the oppont one VP by abandoning an objective. Still, I think the reliability of it is better. Your more likely to come ahead on VP with this than loosing all 3 because the battle line got killed while also allowing you to use the battle line without having to worry about them dying. Actually…It’s worse than that. It states within 6” of any Nighthaunt units that are contesting, so they don’t have to be contesting the objectives themselves, just be within 6” any of your contesting units. Edited May 19, 2022 by That Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) Hmm, I don't they're 'contesting' an objective if there's nothing the opponent has there, they're controlling it. Thus, the opponent must be within 6 of your unit and the objective they control to contest it. Within 6 on just your unit and they control not contest the objective, just within 6 of the objective and they own it without any contestation. I could be wrong but I believe contesting requires two opposing units both within 6 of the objective Edited May 19, 2022 by Rors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theophaniel Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) at the end of each turn (after the battleshock phase), you must check to see if you have gained control of any objectives. To do so, you must count the number of friendly models that are contesting each objective (see 18.1.2). You gain control of an objective if there are more friendly models contesting it than enemy models. 18.1.2 CONTESTING OBJECTIVES A model must be within 6" of an objective in order to contest it. I think it's just badly worded. It's written that model contest not units... but ok. The "that are contesting an objective" could be either the nighthaunt units or the enemy units. (I'm stretching here.) 1. if its the nigthaunt units -> it's bad. They only need to be within 6' of any of any of our "units" contesting an objective ( I guess with models being within 6 and not the full unit) . And they can just deny it if they go last. by camping a model next to the unit ( within 6 they don't need to contest) 2. if its the enemy units -> it becomes doable. It means we have to park a unit within 6 of all enemy "units" currently contesting something. Still complex, but can't be denied as easily. So yeah #1 is ****** and not playable.... #2 is balanced I feel and is at least challenging. I hope it gets ruled as #2 ... At least we could have 1 strategy that is playable in team tournament. Because the alternative is we are going to fight over for the hold the line with the other teammembers. Edited May 19, 2022 by theophaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 I was about to post 18.1.2. Seems fairly clear cut to me. If you're units are outside of 6, they are not contesting. Moving within 6 of the unit does nothing to the grand strat. If an enemy model moves within 6 of an object you control but not contest (nothing within 6), they contest and then win the objective. Thus, you do not control or contest that objective when you calculate the grand strat at the end of the 5th battle round. So it's guaranteed 3VP so long as you don't get caught out by a unit that prevents you from retreating. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theophaniel Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rors said: So it's guaranteed 3VP so long as you don't get caught out by a unit that prevents you from retreating. Yes but it's a choice, you have to sometimes let the enemy the possibility of retaking the objectives for you grand stat. But it's probably the more doable of our grand strategy indeed Edited May 19, 2022 by theophaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, theophaniel said: Yes but it's a choice, you have to sometimes let the enemy the possibility of retaking the objectives for you grand stat. But it's probably the more doable of our grand strategy indeed Yep that's the trade off. Guaranteed 3VP would be too good, like taking prized sorcerery with LRL. This is all but guaranteed but is more like a guaranteed D3 VP. Which I personally feel puts it in the realm of really good but not brokenly powerful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 On 5/18/2022 at 11:49 PM, Rors said: @EnixLHQ I'd suggest changing your grand strat. 3 units of bladegeist that are being used as your main hammer and a single chain ghast unit isn't all the durable. I suppose you could keep the chain ghast off the board for a few turns though. You don't have a heap of wizards so prized sorcerery probably wouldn't be that helpful either but have you considered Fright or Flight. You get 3 VP if none of your objectives are contested at the end of the game. Your list doesn't look list the sort of thing that sits on objectives to hold them. Thus, you're freed up to play agro, which I think is what your list wants to do. Just make sure on turn 5 you don't enter a combat on an object you can't clear and if you're on an objective, move off it if there's anything that can contest. It's a lot more reliable way secure the grand strat with the draw back that sometimes you'll hand the oppont one VP by abandoning an objective. Still, I think the reliability of it is better. Your more likely to come ahead on VP with this than loosing all 3 because the battle line got killed while also allowing you to use the battle line without having to worry about them dying. Turns out I didn't have to. I faced two opponents and beat both by round two. I made some changes to that list before I used it. List as follows: - Army Faction: Nighthaunt - Subfaction: The Scarlet Doom - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line - Triumph: Indomitable LEADERS Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (155)* - Artefacts of Power: Pendant of the Fell Wind Spirit Torment (115)* - General - Command Traits: Cloaked in Shadow Guardian of Souls (150)* - Artefacts of Power: Lightshard of the Harvest Moon - Spells: Shademist Lady Olynder (340)*** - Spells: Seal of Shyish BATTLELINE Grimghast Reapers (160) Bladegheist Revenants (350)** Bladegheist Revenants (175)** Bladegheist Revenants (175)** Chainrasps (110)*** OTHER Myrmourn Banshees (105)*** Chainghasts (95)*** ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS 1 x Emerald Lifeswarm (60) CORE BATTALIONS - *Command Entourage - **Hunters of the Heartlands - ***Vanguard TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000 Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App First game was against Sylvaneth. I won deployment but gave up the first turn. I had deployed aggressively with my only objective being to swarm two of the three objectives. I did just that and decimated the enemy units on the charge. I charged with heroes first to stack WoT procs, then Bladegheists for the mortals. My opponent managed to limp through battleshock, but conceded when I won the double turn. Second game was against Stormcast with their new elite subfaction that makes each model count for like 5 when contesting objectives. Same aggression with my deployment but for three of the four objectives that this map had. Lost priority on the drop and was made to go second. My opponent claimed all objectives in the first turn, which put him in charge range for my turn. I stacked several -saves and a lot of -hits, a couple petrifies, my opponent conceded before battleshock. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 On 5/19/2022 at 12:45 AM, Rors said: Hmm, I don't they're 'contesting' an objective if there's nothing the opponent has there, they're controlling it. Thus, the opponent must be within 6 of your unit and the objective they control to contest it. Within 6 on just your unit and they control not contest the objective, just within 6 of the objective and they own it without any contestation. I could be wrong but I believe contesting requires two opposing units both within 6 of the objective On 5/19/2022 at 12:40 AM, That Guy said: Actually…It’s worse than that. It states within 6” of any Nighthaunt units that are contesting, so they don’t have to be contesting the objectives themselves, just be within 6” any of your contesting units. On 5/19/2022 at 1:12 AM, theophaniel said: at the end of each turn (after the battleshock phase), you must check to see if you have gained control of any objectives. To do so, you must count the number of friendly models that are contesting each objective (see 18.1.2). You gain control of an objective if there are more friendly models contesting it than enemy models. 18.1.2 CONTESTING OBJECTIVES A model must be within 6" of an objective in order to contest it. I think it's just badly worded. It's written that model contest not units... but ok. The "that are contesting an objective" could be either the nighthaunt units or the enemy units. (I'm stretching here.) 1. if its the nigthaunt units -> it's bad. They only need to be within 6' of any of any of our "units" contesting an objective ( I guess with models being within 6 and not the full unit) . And they can just deny it if they go last. by camping a model next to the unit ( within 6 they don't need to contest) 2. if its the enemy units -> it becomes doable. It means we have to park a unit within 6 of all enemy "units" currently contesting something. Still complex, but can't be denied as easily. So yeah #1 is ****** and not playable.... #2 is balanced I feel and is at least challenging. I hope it gets ruled as #2 ... At least we could have 1 strategy that is playable in team tournament. Because the alternative is we are going to fight over for the hold the line with the other teammembers. On 5/19/2022 at 1:19 AM, Rors said: I was about to post 18.1.2. Seems fairly clear cut to me. If you're units are outside of 6, they are not contesting. Moving within 6 of the unit does nothing to the grand strat. If an enemy model moves within 6 of an object you control but not contest (nothing within 6), they contest and then win the objective. Thus, you do not control or contest that objective when you calculate the grand strat at the end of the 5th battle round. So it's guaranteed 3VP so long as you don't get caught out by a unit that prevents you from retreating. The strat is designed for you to get off the objective once you claimed it. One of the strategies I've detailed before for both 2.0 and 3.0 is that once an objective is claimed it's yours unless the battle plan itself says otherwise. So you can claim an objective and then leave it completely and it'll still be yours until the enemy comes for it. And they can't if you lock them down. So, for example, if you were playing Grieving Legion, deployed in such a way that you claimed your objectives either on turn start or after your movement, and then charged with everything leaving 100% of your objectives empty but also trying up 100% of the opponent further than 6" from the objectives, and then never let them go, you win. Not only the points, but the strat. In the same vein, you still win even if you get wiped from the board in totality, with not a single model remaining, but gained so many points that your opponent can't make up the difference even when you can't stop them anymore. Check the battle plan before trying this, though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 And we're back. Hate it when this place goes AWOL. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 14 minutes ago, lare2 said: And we're back. Hate it when this place goes AWOL. Yeah, I wish the site got the donations it needs to stay up all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Causalis Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Got a game against Orruks tomorrow. Probably Big Waagh or Ironjawz. My list will be: Spoiler Lady O w/ Seal of Shyish Krulghast Lord Executioner w/ Lightshard of the Harvest Moon GoS (General, MoM, Arcane Tome, Soul Cage) 20 Chainrasps 10 Chainrasps 20 Grimghast 10 Harridans 5 Hexwraiths 3 Spirit Hosts 3 Spirit Hosts These are the models that I own. Certainly not an optimised list but I think it will have some proverbial legs. I'll go Emerald Host. The Krulghast will be clutch against his Mawcrusha and Gruntas! I'm unsure about making the GoS my general. I could also go with the Lord E and give him re-rolls against non-Death units. But on the other hand Sould Cage only goes off on a 7+, so I feel like the re-roll from MoM is needed here. Thoughts? Other than that I'll bodyguard Lady O and the Executioner with the Spirit Hosts. Hexwraiths could either block enemy movement turn 1 or grab objectives. Chainrasps will probably be fodder. I just hope that the 20-ghost unit survives one combat phase so that I can replenish them a bit. Grimghasts are my hammer unit. Harridans will be in the second wave. I'm unsure which unit(s) my Krulghast should follow. My Grimghasts are the most valuable unit so he probably follow them for extra protection. Or he could be near the Chainrasps to help them tank more damage. I also have a Spirit Torment on the painting desk but I can't fit him in the list (and I don't want to drop the Lord E without trying him out. I feel like the rend on his attacks will be valuable). I'll leave you with pics of my first two finished units. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said: Yeah, I wish the site got the donations it needs to stay up all the time. Gotta agree. Between Discord, Reddit, and Facebook; I'm in a lot of Nighthaunt discussions but this is the format that I enjoy the most. Also, updated my blog with a few more reviews. The Warhammer Weekly one is definitely worth a listen/watch - I'd say Tom Lyons ended up as one of the best NH players with the previous battletome with his performance at Adepticon and now taking the old book to a 5-0 at Vault Wars. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshoyadut Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said: The strat is designed for you to get off the objective once you claimed it. One of the strategies I've detailed before for both 2.0 and 3.0 is that once an objective is claimed it's yours unless the battle plan itself says otherwise. So you can claim an objective and then leave it completely and it'll still be yours until the enemy comes for it. And they can't if you lock them down. So, for example, if you were playing Grieving Legion, deployed in such a way that you claimed your objectives either on turn start or after your movement, and then charged with everything leaving 100% of your objectives empty but also trying up 100% of the opponent further than 6" from the objectives, and then never let them go, you win. Not only the points, but the strat. In the same vein, you still win even if you get wiped from the board in totality, with not a single model remaining, but gained so many points that your opponent can't make up the difference even when you can't stop them anymore. Check the battle plan before trying this, though. On the note of NH's objective game, I lost a game as Soulblight last Wednesday to a Nighthaunt player just because of NH's objective grabbing ability. Also because I was an idjit and missed my battle tactic twice because I tunnel visioned on killing things. But even without that, she was still solidly gaining an advantage in VPs just through her ability to grab and hold all of the objectives while my units were locked down in combats. If I had gotten all of my battle tactics, it still would have been 14 to 12 in her favor at the end of BR3 with her controlling all three points and poised for a double turn. Brutal game and I definitely need to change my strategy against NH in the future (also need to remember my battle tactics). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neck-Romantic Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Praise be to the Server gods! That one felt way longer than normal. Finished my Vorghast (Mourngul proxy) and a Krulghast in the interim. Book is on preorder for a week now; when does it land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said: Praise be to the Server gods! That one felt way longer than normal. Finished my Vorghast (Mourngul proxy) and a Krulghast in the interim. Book is on preorder for a week now; when does it land? It's out. Can go get it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Very thankful the sites back. I've been thinking about how one would optimize the crossboos. I don't think there's a way to make them genuinely competitive but as a thought exercise, if someone wanted to build around them what would be the best option? The best I can think of is take grieving legion and double reinforce two units and then take a GoS with the auto cast item and palisade and a dreadblade. In a one drop list. Take first turn and drop the crossbows as a screen with the GoS buffing them. Dreadblade also then teleports up. From here you have the option of either 60 shots on 3s and 3, or give both units a 5+ ward depending on whether it's strategically better to murder something or ensure you survive. You can drop the palisade and it doesn't bother your shooting. The real benefit of the palisade isn't stopping you from getting shot back but really hampering movement and getting models into base contact. Fro there you can rally both units on a 5+ or keep the ward or buff your shooting as needed. Anything that charges will get bogged down for awhile and if they try to ignore you, 60 shots on 3/3 isn't terrible. That's the best way I can think of taking them.. it's not great, stuff like dragons can fly straight over or easily kill the support etc Does anyone have any ideas about how'd they'd maximize this unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neck-Romantic Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Unfortunatly I really dont see the crossboos or the scriptor as competative enough to take when compared to other options. Feels like youde have to work so hard to even make them function 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnixLHQ Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 3 hours ago, dmorley21 said: Gotta agree. Between Discord, Reddit, and Facebook; I'm in a lot of Nighthaunt discussions but this is the format that I enjoy the most. Also, updated my blog with a few more reviews. The Warhammer Weekly one is definitely worth a listen/watch - I'd say Tom Lyons ended up as one of the best NH players with the previous battletome with his performance at Adepticon and now taking the old book to a 5-0 at Vault Wars. Warhammer Weekly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8DPDQJS-88 Watch it. It's the first truly "I'm not making hot takes against Nighthaunt because that makes me cool" review, and I appreciate it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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