Avengorii VLoZD List

[Bademeister]

Hey guys, 

i was thinking about the new Dynasties and how they can be used. I looked at the models and the new rules to the older ones and thought about a List running a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon paired with a Coven Throne in an Avengorii List.

The new Lance Buff on VLoZD ist great. The new Command Ability on Coven Throne is even better. The changed Amythystine Pinions (now +6" Move) seems very good. The Monstrous Battle Trait makes him more durable. The fact that you don't have to take a artefact from the Avengorii List gives you the possibility to choose the PPP (Plate of perfect Protection) makes this guys so hillarious. Thinking about the changes in AoS 3.0 (healing, buffing with Heros/Monsters) in every turn makes this guy even more good.

What do you thing? I mean no one will play the new Vampire Monsters after fielding this beast. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

The VLoZD actually seems really good in a bunch of different lineages. And you don't even need to bring the Coven Throne along for all of them (but of course it's always an option).

In Legion of Blood, you can give the VLoZD -1 to be hit and +1 to saves though a command trait and artefact.

In Vyrkos, you can make him capture for 14 models and give him +1d3 lance attacks.

In Kastelai, you can bring Vhordrai instead and he gains all those juicy bonuses for killing stuff.

I think the VLoZD is just a super solid unit in general in the new tome.

[Liquidsteel]

VLoZD can heal D3 every turn as well now with new hero actions.

[Macarian]

4 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The VLoZD actually seems really good in a bunch of different lineages. And you don't even need to bring the Coven Throne along for all of them (but of course it's always an option).

In Legion of Blood, you can give the VLoZD -1 to be hit and +1 to saves though a command trait and artefact.

In Vyrkos, you can make him capture for 14 models and give him +1d3 lance attacks.

In Kastelai, you can bring Vhordrai instead and he gains all those juicy bonuses for killing stuff.

I think the VLoZD is just a super solid unit in general in the new tome.

I also like the VLoZD in Legion of Night with Unholy Impetus and having him fly with a flock of Vargheists. You're pretty much guaranteed to kill something and then you can go crazy with the Vargheists

I think the Vengorian Lords will have a place in all dynasties as well, with the Plate of Perfect Protection (I assume there will be an equivalent in GH21) you can ignore 2 rend which covers 90% of weapons in the game. With buffs to saves seemingly easy to get they look really tanky to me.

[Reuben Parker]

Seem like good ideas, just not sure a whole bunch of added support to an expensive model is the way to go in AoS 3 unless they bring in a generic MW save better than deaths 6+. We now have so many armies that can just overload MWs even soulblight with zombies and attack stacking + necromancer can do insane MW output. With AoS3 seemingly having tanky saves and easy way to add +1 save unless MW get reworked and or a generic save is introduced MWs are going to be the thing everyone builds for as their damage output to counteract all the 2+ and 1+ saves that will be running around. Kruleboyz, Lumineth, Fyreslayers, DoT, Soulblight, SCE are just a few of the armies shaping up to have incredible MW output. 
 

I think just a native VLoZD with AoS3 generic abilities and Avengorii buffs will be sufficient and doesn’t make a list that falls apart when the central component is removed. 

[StokieRich]

12 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Seem like good ideas, just not sure a whole bunch of added support to an expensive model is the way to go in AoS 3 unless they bring in a generic MW save better than deaths 6+. We now have so many armies that can just overload MWs even soulblight with zombies and attack stacking + necromancer can do insane MW output. With AoS3 seemingly having tanky saves and easy way to add +1 save unless MW get reworked and or a generic save is introduced MWs are going to be the thing everyone builds for as their damage output to counteract all the 2+ and 1+ saves that will be running around. Kruleboyz, Lumineth, Fyreslayers, DoT, Soulblight, SCE are just a few of the armies shaping up to have incredible MW output. 
 

I think just a native VLoZD with AoS3 generic abilities and Avengorii buffs will be sufficient and doesn’t make a list that falls apart when the central component is removed. 

Definitely agree with this mate, Had the *pleasure* to play against DoK with 15 Bow Snakes as well, 60 shots per turn (Hero phase and shooting) at 24" range (32" with a move) does on average 10 MW without even rolling the rest of the hits/wounds/saves! With that sort of MW output at range it feels like a good save just won't help you. You have a good chance of just picking up the VLOZD before he does anything.

[Macarian]

9 hours ago, StokieRich said:

Definitely agree with this mate, Had the *pleasure* to play against DoK with 15 Bow Snakes as well, 60 shots per turn (Hero phase and shooting) at 24" range (32" with a move) does on average 10 MW without even rolling the rest of the hits/wounds/saves! With that sort of MW output at range it feels like a good save just won't help you. You have a good chance of just picking up the VLOZD before he does anything.

Any thoughts on how to deal with that or other armies with high Mortal Wound output? In Legion of Night or kastelai you could put a VLoZD or Blood Knights in Ambush to protect them from an Alpha strike, then deploy nearby the Snakes and look for a double turn to kill them. Other Dynasties would need to rely on a Prismatic Pallisade I guess?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

16 hours ago, Macarian said:

Any thoughts on how to deal with that or other armies with high Mortal Wound output? In Legion of Night or kastelai you could put a VLoZD or Blood Knights in Ambush to protect them from an Alpha strike, then deploy nearby the Snakes and look for a double turn to kill them. Other Dynasties would need to rely on a Prismatic Pallisade I guess?

The one piece of anti-shooting tech in the book is Belladamma Volga's Lycancurse. If you can manage to kill a model in a ranged unit with it you lock it in close combat with a Direwolf, which means that it will probably have to shoot at that before it can get to you. I think in theory Fell Bats can serve a similar function with their 14" flying move.

I think overall Gravelords are not the most vulnerable army around when it comes to long range mortal wounds. Part of that is because we have a stellar selection of "trash units" with high wounds and low saves. Against those units, mortal wounds are generally worse than regular wounds, because mortals are normally much lower volume.

We will have to see how things work out in the next edition. For something like that DoK combo, if your opponent wants to use it they will need to spend two of their reinforcement points on a unit of 15 Blood Stalkers and take an Ironscale general, which is a fairly substantial opportunity cost. And from our perspective, healing our heroes will be easier with that hero-phase heal. So I find it hard to judge how things will shape up.