Best of old, Best of New

[Aurelian]

I thought I'd make a thread to discuss what I feel is abit of a disparity in the quality of new GW kits. Traditional older kits had a lot of variety in the way in which they can be built, but most newer kits can only be built a certain way. As much as the newer kits are high in quality in a sense they lack the magic some of the older kits had. With older kits there were multiple ways to build the same models, meaning their was an incentive to buy more than one of the same kit. Whereas with most newer kits you can only build the models in one way, with no sense of variety or an ability to customise your model in anyway. 

I find myself missing this same ability to customise my models in newer kits, but perhaps what is most frustrating is that it's not like GW isn't capable of creating kits like they used to, at the same standard of sheer detail we become accustomed too in the past few years. For me the best kits GW have realised over the past few are the "Putrid Blightkings" and the "Rockgut Troggoths". Too me these some of the best kits GW has ever produced because they capture the magic of what used to make building models so great, maintaining that scope for originality and flair whilst maintaining the quality we've come to expect from modern GW kits. For me these kits represent the best of the old and the best of the new, and I can't help but finding myself miss the days where GW did more kits, like the Blightkings or troggoths rather than everyone having the same monopose models in their army. 

 

 

[zilberfrid]

From the models I have:

Best of old: General on Griffin.

Beautiful sculpt, quite versatile and imposing.

Best of new: Necromunda sets

Dynamic, versatile and even come with pre-shaped bases.

[SunStorm]

In terms of newer troops, both Blightkings and Brutes are both really nice kits, plenty of scope to make them unique and have plenty of chance to kitbash with other kits in their ranges. 

As for old, just wanted to call out the Dragon Ogors, was an older kit, but still holds up I think. 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by SunStorm

[EccentricCircle]

I agree for sure. While the new style of plastic figures look great when painted up in a display, or on promo pictures, I don't think they are as good in a practical sense as some of the older models. I guess the best way to put it is that while the sculptures themselves are better as works of art, they are not as fun as model kits.

I absolutely love building multipart plastic kits, combining different arms and options in wierd and wonderful combinations. I love to keep all my bits, and mix and match between kits, kitbashing unique characters and such. Its certainly still possible to do that, plastic is easy to work with after all. However, it definitely isn't encouraged in the way it used to be, and I worry that the next generation will grow up building and painting things by the numbers, rather than innovating.

For this reason my favourite kits of the past few years haven't been games workshop ones at all, but rather the amazing frostgrave kits. Some stand out models, and so fun to build!

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

It might be the selection of factions I picked, but I'm not really seeing the multiple ways to build older models compared to newer ones.  Sure, the older models have a bit more, but nothing super impressive to me.

My older models are Chaos Warriors and Knights mostly. For the Warriors the bodies are all the same pose which makes sense they are meant for rank and file. And the arm options attach at the elbow with the upper arms being at the side of the body.  There's some rotation that can be done with the weapons and shields (if you go with that option).  Nothing to write home about as far as I'm concerned.  I even clipped the left-handed weapons to vary types as well as used some Knights ensorcelled weapons, but in a unit of 15 there's still likely a lot of repeats.  Just less than a hypothetical new kit (not counting mixing in the new Easy-to-Build Start Collecting ones).  Again maybe its just me, but once a group of 10-15 models form a unit, the details of each model just kinda blend together anyways.

The Chaos Knights offer some weapon angle positioning, but again nothing I would really point out as a feature compared to the newer models. Once you go beyond a few enorcelled weapons or glaives you're going to have repeats.

In comparison, my new army is Lumineth.  For the most part, I would think one wants the Wardens (spearmen) and Sentinels (archers) for this kind of army to look the same as well-disciplined soldiers drilled for several decades. My Stonegaurd have weapon options (hammer or pick) in the kit.  The Stoneguard offer little posing flexibility without some conversion talent.  Most of that is largely due to the capes though as changing the arm positions too much creates contra visuals to how the model's cape is moving. 

I will say, as much as a pain to build, the Dawn Riders to offer some angling of their spears/lances. If I can ever bring myself to get more, I plan to fill in the angle gaps to making it appear that 10 Dawn Riders are lowering their weapons in a wave.

I also have a bunch of Warcry cultists for my S2D army. Most kits offer a couple of options. The spindly nature of those models and being the chaff-est of chaff units for my army, I didn't bother getting creative in posing with them unless it was really easy.

So there is some difference between old and new, however; good portion of the models I have the difference isn't worth bringing up and/or the older models are so removed from human anatomy that 360 degree rotation parallel with the spine isn't going to look out of place.  With a lot of the newer models, I could change some posing, but many times that could conflict with other details on the model in terms of motion, lines or other posing cues.

 

I am much more familiar with 40k models many of which get called monopose.  Most of which I think is without merit.  Because Genestealer Cult Abberants are what I call monopose while many call Primaris (sans Easy-to-Build) space marines monopose.  I haven't really encountered a non-ETB Primaris space marine that can't be built with some easy different posing (a lot can be hidden under a pauldron).  Even some ETB ones can be easily clipped to gain more range of motion. 

The same can be said with the new Chaos Space Marines.  I have incorporated more than a few bits from my old CSM model kits as well as new Havoc weapons and a smattering of Chaos Terminator bits into my refreshed Chaos Space Marines.  I was particularly happy that none of my 3 Heavy Bolter marines have Hvy Bolters that look like the others.  And I don't really like building models which in turn means I really don't favor conversions/kitbashing much.  I mean I do it on occasion, but it is very minor and easy beginner stuff.

 

I certainly won't say that the new stuff is plug and play easy to convert or pose, but I will say the new models can often get more mileage than is often made out.  Just like I do think that older models don't have as much posing as they are often touted to. 

[Greybeard86]

This is likely controversial, but I do like: Lauka Vai, Mother of Nightmares.

Yes, it is ilogical, anathomically problematic. But it is freaking horrifying.

As for old, I loved Orion:

 

And I also loved midhammer dwarf sculpts. It is harder to pick a single one, since I liked them more for the "full army look" than individual sculpts, but here is one:

 

 

 

[MitGas]

It‘s hard to pick a single old and new model or kit for me (there are many good designs out there)... but I‘ve got no problem with monopose minis personally. Plastic kits can always be modded/kitbashed reasonably well if you don‘t want to field an army of clones. It just takes a lot of time. 
 

I like how the Rubric Marines (same goes to most other new CSM kits) can be reasonably well made into your own „individuals“ (ironic in that case)... Rockguts are great in that regard as well. I also like „rigid“  kits like the newer Lumineth Sword guys although I think they suffer from less choice in their build (like the Kairic Acolytes or Tzaangors do as well). Biggest sufferers here are the new chaos warriors... a single head swap doesn’t make them look really much different. But some monopose stuff is great too - like the mutated vamp lady or a ton of other heroes in the game. Although there are some GREAT kitbashes of her out there too. So yeah, if the design work is solid and you don‘t need multiple of them, I don‘t really care about the poses being limited. If they look stupid like those awful Lumineth twins with the girl dancing on her brother‘s back bling in her pjs, then no amount of flexibility can fix that. Whoever thought Syll‘Esske‘s best feature was the awkwardly positioned daemonette on top of him and that concept needed repeating should think again!

[Cordova]

I have a soft-spot for the old Orc Boyz kit - separate arms, legs, torso, and head made them quite poseable, and the ability to arm them with two hand weapons, hand weapon and shield, or spear and shield, gave the opportunity for a fair amount of variety.  A similar thing was true of the old zombie kit, and the current Fellwater Troggoth/River Troll kit.

23 hours ago, Aurelian said:

For me the best kits GW have realised over the past few are the "Putrid Blightkings" and the "Rockgut Troggoths". 

Both of those are great kits. Can I add a vote for the new squig kits (herders & hoppers)? The squigs have alternate faces, which gives them a fair amount of variety, and the riders have alternate heads and armaments.  I also think the Orruk Brutes kit is pretty customisable...

[Aurelian]

16 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

It might be the selection of factions I picked, but I'm not really seeing the multiple ways to build older models compared to newer ones.  Sure, the older models have a bit more, but nothing super impressive to me.

My older models are Chaos Warriors and Knights mostly. For the Warriors the bodies are all the same pose which makes sense they are meant for rank and file. And the arm options attach at the elbow with the upper arms being at the side of the body.  There's some rotation that can be done with the weapons and shields (if you go with that option).  Nothing to write home about as far as I'm concerned.  I even clipped the left-handed weapons to vary types as well as used some Knights ensorcelled weapons, but in a unit of 15 there's still likely a lot of repeats.  Just less than a hypothetical new kit (not counting mixing in the new Easy-to-Build Start Collecting ones).  Again maybe its just me, but once a group of 10-15 models form a unit, the details of each model just kinda blend together anyways.

The Chaos Knights offer some weapon angle positioning, but again nothing I would really point out as a feature compared to the newer models. Once you go beyond a few enorcelled weapons or glaives you're going to have repeats.

 

 

 

With kits like the Chaos knights though it's just the options in the kit, it's the cross-combatibility of kits across the range. I've seen some cool looking chosen made from the two kits you just mentioned. 

As for Lumineth, they're lovely models with the sort of poses/detail we would have have only dreamed about when I first got into the hobby (2004) but that's just it, you can only build the exact same models out of the kits over and over again. The frustrating part is GW have shown they can still produce kits like they used too, kits with that sense of individualism between each figure, and kits with cross-combatibility between different kits that made ranges like the "Firstborn" space marines/ Dark Eldar/ Warhammer Empire so special. 

I suppose what I want more of, is kit's that find the best of both worlds like the Blightkings/Troggoths. Those are the type of kits I want to see more of, and those are the kits which represent the best value for money in eyes in terms of sheer quality. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Aurelian

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

32 minutes ago, Aurelian said:

As for Lumineth, they're lovely models with the sort of poses/detail we would have have only dreamed about when I first got into the hobby (2004) but that's just it, you can only build the exact same models out of the kits over and over again. The frustrating part is GW have shown they can still produce kits like they used too, kits with that sense of individualism between each figure, and kits with cross-combatibility between different kits that made ranges like the "Firstborn" space marines/ Dark Eldar/ Warhammer Empire so special. 

I honestly don't know how the Lumineth (I am talking about Wave 1 as I don't have any Wave 2 yet) could be sculpted to allow 'multi-posing' or cross-compatibility without sacrificing a lot of quality.  Much of the range is wearing flowing robes, so there is much going on with torso and legs.  That said, the whole model collection was designed to look like the wind is blowing upon them and lined up right all the clothes, capes, tassels, etc. are done so they look like they're being hit by the same breeze.

As for older cross-compatible parts (I am mostly speaking of space marines as that is what I know of the old models), I suppose it was good for chapters with very different aesthetics (Dark Angels, Space Wolves, etc.), but much of the time to me, it was just surface gribblies that didn't matter much.  I never felt my old CSM were all that unique because I could mix and match legs and chest plates.  When the new CSM came out I quickly replaced them and gave my old models away to a new would be Black Legion (how they were painted) player.

That said, I started GW games with 40k mid 7th edition (though played a couple demo games back in 5th).  So, I have no attachment to old style. I do think I built enough older models to get the gist of how they work.  I mostly find that is overstated how much newer GW models are monopose.  Often to the point of being basically false. The newer stuff isn't plug-n-play easy as the older stuff, but I am pretty weak at kitbashing/conversions and I can manage it.  What was loss is in no way worthwhile to me in what was gained (better anatomical structure, reduction in obvious gaps, holistically better looking models to name a few advantages).  I never had much of a collection of old bits (which I could see be an issue with long time collectors).  The only thing I think customers really loss is super easy variation of models.  They're still plastic and there are more potential bits for kitbashing/conversions coming out nearly every year from GW alone.  All of which is going to allow from truly unique models over AAA, AAB, ABB, ACB and so on parts matching.  It just takes a little more work now.  That's my current opinion on the matter.