Tossed into the Mawpot! Soup Armies Thoughts and Feelings?

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

2 hours ago, Greybeard86 said:

I think we are getting into a slightly different debate (my fault!). For me, soup is an effort to consolidate factions so that you can keep them relevant together, given that you wouldn't be able to support them separately (or wouldn't want to, it is just business, after all). By support I mean a combination of new models and keeping the old models relevant.

And it is the concept that soup has to mean lack of support that I’m trying to push back on because I have seen soup as a potential way to give players more flexibility in how they play and thus increasing the probability that they will get support, both in the form of new models and updates of existing.

It’s an interesting needle to thread.  Soulblight (if that is considered an update of LoN soup) did all three things.  They squatted some old models.  They updated some old models.  They introduced some new models.  Mawtribes so far updated the Tyrant and side-updated the Icebrow Hunter.  Warclans has so far leaned in the new model direction.  In the later cases though it may just be a matter of time before we see more of the rest.

I’m less familiar with 40k but the majority of SM models for sale are still non-Primaris and when, for example, I read Goonhammer’s meta analysis it is rare to find a SM list that is more than 50% Primaris.  (Maybe they’re over represented on the lower tables?). My GW store manager actively discouraged me from trying to build an all Primaris SM army if I wanted to be competitive.

But yes, I think this is where this thread ends up struggling us that a lot of anti-soup seems to include that negative connotation of lack of support in its very definition.  If your definition is inherently negative of course those in favor are going to sound… irrational at best.  Who can be pro-negative after all?

Yet my experience of soup and the majority examples I’ve seen so far, whether in AoS or 40k, are positive.  So my basic definition of soup is more mechanical and neutral in form and from there I look and see what I gained or lost.  With lots of experience with Mawtribes I feel very comfortable saying it was a net gain.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

4 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

 

However, what's gotten me most excited is the implied presence of Chaos Dwarves - if they were to soup them with S2D or anything else I'd be fine with that, they definitely seem to have a cult following, but not certain there's enough of one to make a stand alone battletome... But yeee Boy, Furnace Kings on their way 🤞

As a former LoA player would love to see the return of the Chaos Dwarfs.  A good example of where I thought soup could’ve saved something I love as Execution Herd could’ve easily slotted into BoC while the Duardin went to StD.  Looks like later could happen but a fear my Execution Herd has made their last charge

[King Under the Mountain]

23 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

 

And I think the same would be true in a combined dwarf forest too.  More absolute trees, as well as more KO trees and more Fyreslayers trees.  That’s what the precedents seem to show.

I hope you are right. 

Seems like Grungi is going to be a bigger player for 3.0 so him receiving a God-Tier model will help with my unease. 
 

[DoctorPerils]

I'm not sure we should really be considering Space Marines soup (they're all the same greater faction with essentially the same model stylings and playstyles)

I'm not sure we should consider SBGL as soup either, they're pretty much Vampire Counts minus nighthaunt and FEC (and the addition of Neferata) - it's not like deathrattle had much of an identity outside of vampire counts/SBGL
 

Also, I think the most vehement arguments against souping KO and FS is more on a thematic level, not the support level for this supposed duardin superfaction - though I'm not saying that much hasn't been said on that question

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

17 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

I'm not sure we should consider SBGL as soup either, they're pretty much Vampire Counts minus nighthaunt and FEC (and the addition of Neferata) - it's not like deathrattle had much of an identity outside of vampire counts/SBGL

I'd say Gravelords are anti-soup if anything. They have lost access to a bunch of Nighthaunt and Bonereapers options compared to Legions of Nagash.

They are still an interesting data point, though. Gravelords were part of a soup tome before in LoN, but have now received a stand alone book and new models. Personally, I don't know if this is a good trend if it continues. I think soup tomes have one danger from a player perspective above all, which is that you build a mixed force and then the option to mix is taken away at a later time as individual subfactions are spun off. In the case of Gravelords, I think it's still bearable, because Nighthaunt were always their own book, as well, so you kind of had to expect that LoN and Nighthaunt would be separated at some point. Still, I feel bad for people who ran an lists of Morghasts, Skeletons and Grimghast Reapers and now have three separate thirds of an army they can't play together anymore.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, King Under the Mountain said:

I hope you are right. 

Seems like Grungi is going to be a bigger player for 3.0 so him receiving a God-Tier model will help with my unease. 
 

The new duo,

Grugni and Gotrek!

Now just you dare try and stop the dwarfs

Edited May 31, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Fellman]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:05 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

The new duo,

Grugni and Gotrek!

Now just you dare try and stop the dwarfs

that would make sense ass Gotrek in the lore is slowly and unwillingly turning into an avatar of his kusin Grimnir

[zilberfrid]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:05 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

The new duo,

Grugni and Gotrek!

Now just you dare try and stop the dwarfs

As long as Grugni is leading the Cities ,(and/or entirely new) dwarves and Kharadron are not ground up to be slaves to a god, that sounds well enough.