AoS 2 - Har Kuron (Broken Realms: Morathi) Discussion

[Kramer]

16 minutes ago, hurben said:

You're not allowed to use COS city roules in Har Kuron

Oh yeah, so dropping the retinue things. 👍

any advice on my questions? 

[Graywater]

20 minutes ago, Kramer said:

This city finally has me excited to rebase my old dark elves and maybe even expand my 1K of DoK. 
 

trying to make the most of the prayer and the models I like best I ended up with these two lists. 
 

 

I struggle with two things.  So help an elfy  brother out 

one is MW outpUt. Love my executioner models. But they aren’t as good as I need them to be to fill this hole. 
 

second is objective play.  Nothing is really holding its own in that regard.  I like the Corsair + prayer + fleet master combo. Same for the dark shards. 
but maybe I need to drop one for some screens/anvils. But what would function like that? 

Yeah, executioners are unfortunately uninspiring when it comes to damage, and their MW output is too small for that to be a reason to take them. There isn't a ton of MW potential in the units we have available to us, so its not something I'd be trying to force. 

You can get quasi mortal wounds through the vitriolic spray though. Vitriolic plus bladewind from a sorceress on dragon is an auto 9 mortal wounds, and vitriolic plus 30 darkshards is 60 shots that your opponents don't get saves against, which is pretty much the same thing.

As for objectives, the models available to us are not the most durable for sure. However, some units are quite point efficient for how many bodies you get. 40 corsairs are only 280 points, which is a lot of bodies to put on objectives. Add to that we have access to two -1 to hit spells in sap strength and the sorceress's native spell, and you can debuff enemy units enough to prevent them from doing much damage to your units so you outnumber on objectives. Then that block of 40, or a few units of 10 of them, or equivalent unit like Bleakswords can be screens as well.

This army rewards a skirmish playstyle. You stay mobile with the ability to apply a decent amount of damage from range and make small pushes for objectives. You can stay mobile and spread out so your opponent doesnt have a concentrated target to focus in on. I dont think you want to try to sit on contested objectives. I think you'll more want to grab it with a couple models/small unit that you dont mind if it dies, because now you can destroy the enemy unit there, and you can resecure it with another small unit. 

As a quick heads up, we can't take stormcast units in har kuron either, so no ballistas in your second list.

[Kramer]

29 minutes ago, Graywater said:

As a quick heads up, we can't take stormcast units in har kuron either, so no ballistas in your second list.

That’s a big help points wise but such a shame 😂

i wanted my old reaper bolt throwers in there.

but the points will go to more bodies then. 
 

I’ll mull the rest over. All sounds very solid. But don’t know how to input it into my list 

[Graywater]

24 minutes ago, Kramer said:

That’s a big help points wise but such a shame 😂

i wanted my old reaper bolt throwers in there.

but the points will go to more bodies then. 
 

I’ll mull the rest over. All sounds very solid. But don’t know how to input it into my list 

You can save 40 points by adding one of the units of 10 corsairs to the unit of 30. This, plus the 220 from the ballistas gives you 260 points. 280 with the 20 points you're under. You can add a sorceress, balewind, and a sacrificial unit of bleakswords so you arent killing your important darkshards off for the +2 to cast. Thatd leave you with enough points for a CP to start with and 10 left over. You could instead add some chariots for more screening and fast objective threats. There are a few good options avaliable. I think you're good on bodies though. You've got a great blender in the witches+cauldron, a ranged block with the darkshards, and a cloud of bodies with the corsairs. More bodies isnt going to hurt, but id be looking down the utility route.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Graywater

[MetaphoricDragon]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

I struggle with two things.  So help an elfy  brother out 

one is MW outpUt. Love my executioner models. But they aren’t as good as I need them to be to fill this hole. 
 

 

I'm thinking for MW is Har Kuron we might be looking towards the updated Melusai.  The Blood Sisters' updated Turned to Crystal ability or the Blood Stalkers' now having 2 shots to try and proc Heartseeker on 6s

[Graywater]

20 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

I'm thinking for MW is Har Kuron we might be looking towards the updated Melusai.  The Blood Sisters' updated Turned to Crystal ability or the Blood Stalkers' now having 2 shots to try and proc Heartseeker on 6s

Blood sisters are not good for this because crystal touch is at the end of the combat phase and within 1 inch to do it. Very easy to work around it and you only get to do it for each snake that survived until the end of the phase. Blood stalkers are good, but fishing for mortals isn't a good move. Youre getting an average of 3 off of a unit of 10 for 280 points. 

[Snakeb1te]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

This city finally has me excited to rebase my old dark elves and maybe even expand my 1K of DoK. 
 

trying to make the most of the prayer and the models I like best I ended up with these two lists. 
 

 

I struggle with two things.  So help an elfy  brother out 

one is MW outpUt. Love my executioner models. But they aren’t as good as I need them to be to fill this hole. 
 

second is objective play.  Nothing is really holding its own in that regard.  I like the Corsair + prayer + fleet master combo. Same for the dark shards. 
but maybe I need to drop one for some screens/anvils. But what would function like that? 

Your list isn't valid - read the allegiance ability for Har Kuron - you are allowed to use DoK units at the expense of the CoS allegiance.

[Archibald]

Mortal Realms: Morathi got me hyped to play dark elfes lead by Morathi. That would mean Har Kuron or pure DoK.

I am on kind of a budget due to Covid and stuff.

What would you recommend to buy? 

I had thought about something like this for 1k5 games. In times of Covid only fighting Orcs and LRL. The Assassin is a cool modell and i need 8 units.

Cities of Sigmar

HarKuron

1x Shadow Queen

1x Morathi

1x Sorceress (general, Vitriolic Spray)

1x Assassin
 

Battleline:

30x Darkshards

10x Executioners

10x Dreadspears

10x Dreadspears

Endless Spells:

Balewind Vortex

Spellportals

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

I'm thinking for MW is Har Kuron we might be looking towards the updated Melusai.  The Blood Sisters' updated Turned to Crystal ability or the Blood Stalkers' now having 2 shots to try and proc Heartseeker on 6s

I don’t have the snakes yet. But the bows will not do enough I feel. And the new blood sisters ability is very tricky as it’s after the retaliation. 
 

4 hours ago, Snakeb1te said:

Your list isn't valid - read the allegiance ability for Har Kuron - you are allowed to use DoK units at the expense of the CoS allegiance.

Yeah yeah. Rub it in why don’t you  

for some reason I only thought about the endless spell thing. Dont know why I didn’t realise the rest was gone as well. 
 

5 hours ago, Graywater said:

You can save 40 points by adding one of the units of 10 corsairs to the unit of 30. This, plus the 220 from the ballistas gives you 260 points. 280 with the 20 points you're under. You can add a sorceress, balewind, and a sacrificial unit of bleakswords so you arent killing your important darkshards off for the +2 to cast. Thatd leave you with enough points for a CP to start with and 10 left over. You could instead add some chariots for more screening and fast objective threats. There are a few good options avaliable. I think you're good on bodies though. You've got a great blender in the witches+cauldron, a ranged block with the darkshards, and a cloud of bodies with the corsairs. More bodies isnt going to hurt, but id be looking down the utility route.

Yeah a lot of point to play around with now. The chariots do seem cool. But require me to add something to My collection. So I’m not keen on that yet. 
some spears for the sacrifices is a very solid idea. Don’t know if I want to go full on magic but there is some fun stuff to do with that. 

[Kramer]

Okay completely different direction. Started with the ‘musts’ just because I think the models are cool and I want to play them. (Black dragon, witch elf, cauldron, executioners.) 

then started thinking about making them work.  I ended up with this. Still missing an anvil style unit and anything movement shananigy 

New list (with thanks to @MetaphoricDragon) would be: 

Hag Queen on Cauldron (Incitement to Murder and Null Stone Vizard)
Sorceress on Black Dragon (The Withering)
Sorceress (General, Vitrolic Spray, Traitor's Banner, Murderous Zeal)

30 Witch Elves (two blades)
40 Darkshards
20 Dread Spears
2x10 Executioners

Balewind Vortex

Basic idea is that the dark shard are super solid. So their coming along in numbers. The dragon combos nicely in the battalion. Dreadspears for screens, stabs and throwaway. (Although at a pinch 21 3+ 4+ attacks with an option for 20 more and exploding 6’s and on of them at-1 rend, ain’t bad)

executions still the only source for mortals  and I just love my old metal ones. 
Witch combo just blends.

a guest on the honest wargamer talked about how the balewind actually adds an extra 3 or 4 inches on the turn it’s set ups. Which makes vitriolic spray an option for me. So I’m willing to give that a go. 

got three threats. A little bit of mobility due to the dragon and screen and most of my favourite dark elf models 😅. 

Thoughts? Especially if I missed something. 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Kramer

[MetaphoricDragon]

46 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Okay completely different direction. Started with the ‘musts’ just because I think the models are cool and I want to play them. (Black dragon, witch elf, cauldron, executioners.) 

then started thinking about making them work.  I ended up with this. Still missing an anvil style unit and anything movement shananigy 

Basic idea is that the dark shard are super solid. So their coming along in numbers. The dragon combos nicely in the battalion. Dreadspears for screens, stabs and throwaway. (Although at a pinch 21 3+ 4+ attacks with an option for 20 more and exploding 6’s and on of them at-1 rend, ain’t bad)

executions still the only source for mortals  and I just love my old metal ones. 
Witch combo just blends.

a guest on the honest wargamer talked about how the balewind actually adds an extra 3 or 4 inches on the turn it’s set ups. Which makes vitriolic spray an option for me. So I’m willing to give that a go. 

got three threats. A little bit of mobility due to the dragon and screen and most of my favourite dark elf models 😅. 

Thoughts? Especially if I missed something. 

I'm still new to this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.  But don't you need 8 units to include 2 DoK, and by my count you're at 7 unless the Vortex counts?  Might need to split the dreadspears up I'd guess.  

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragon said:

I'm still new to this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.  But don't you need 8 units to include 2 DoK, and by my count you're at 7 unless the Vortex counts?  Might need to split the dreadspears up I'd guess.  

F* me... That's why I had the Executioners in two blocks. Last minute I put them together to lower drops as I didn't need it for Battleline after all 😂

Don't know why i'm struggling with this army to build. Probably too many 'must haves' from my collection. 

New list would be: 

Hag Queen on Cauldron (Incitement to Murder and Null Stone Vizard)
Sorceress on Black Dragon (The Withering)
Sorceress (General, Vitrolic Spray, Traitor's Banner, Murderous Zeal)

30 Witch Elves (two blades)
40 Darkshards
20 Dread Spears
2x10 Executioners

Balewind Vortex

 

[Graywater]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

F* me... That's why I had the Executioners in two blocks. Last minute I put them together to lower drops as I didn't need it for Battleline after all 😂

Don't know why i'm struggling with this army to build. Probably too many 'must haves' from my collection. 

New list would be: 

Hag Queen on Cauldron (Incitement to Murder and Null Stone Vizard)
Sorceress on Black Dragon (The Withering)
Sorceress (General, Vitrolic Spray, Traitor's Banner, Murderous Zeal)

30 Witch Elves (two blades)
40 Darkshards
20 Dread Spears
2x10 Executioners

Balewind Vortex

 

This looks good to me. Har kuron doesn't really have access to a true anvil unit, so I think you're better off in this direction. The best defense is a good offense, right?

[Kramer]

38 minutes ago, Graywater said:

This looks good to me. Har kuron doesn't really have access to a true anvil unit, so I think you're better off in this direction. The best defense is a good offense, right?

Well 30 liberators on 2+ save rerolling ones, teleporting before the game starts in front of you is a very good defence as well, but I get your point  

I think the tankiest we get is drakespawn knights with mystic shield. Hopefully in cover. 
but that’s hardly points efficient. 

[Graywater]

5 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Well 30 liberators on 2+ save rerolling ones, teleporting before the game starts in front of you is a very good defence as well, but I get your point  

I think the tankiest we get is drakespawn knights with mystic shield. Hopefully in cover. 
but that’s hardly points efficient. 

Its not. And honestly, har kuron is in a better position than most to combat that liberator bomb thanks to vitriolic spray.

[Kramer]

4 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Its not. And honestly, har kuron is in a better position than most to combat that liberator bomb thanks to vitriolic spray.

Yeah true. The biggest defence against that tactic though is that one:

I don’t know anybody who is willing to go to that length. So not going to encounter it until tournament time perhaps  

And two I expect GW to nerf this tactic before a vaccin is distributed... although that’s not a save bet with GW 😂

[Graywater]

6 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah true. The biggest defence against that tactic though is that one:

I don’t know anybody who is willing to go to that length. So not going to encounter it until tournament time perhaps  

And two I expect GW to nerf this tactic before a vaccin is distributed... although that’s not a save bet with GW 😂

Agreed. I think itd be rare to find someone that actually WANTS to run 60 liberators as an army. Id like to think it was an interaction GW didnt intend and will fix, but im not so sure. Im not encouraged with how the daughters of khaine battalions seem to be locked to that temple, which seems wrong.

[JackStreicher]

59 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah true. The biggest defence against that tactic though is that one:

I don’t know anybody who is willing to go to that length. So not going to encounter it until tournament time perhaps  

And two I expect GW to nerf this tactic before a vaccin is distributed... although that’s not a save bet with GW 😂

The‘ll reduce the range of it to 9“ I guess. So a Max of 23 models can teleport pre game. That‘s still strong but not as absurd as 43 with 12“

Edited November 19, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Graywater said:

Agreed. I think itd be rare to find someone that actually WANTS to run 60 liberators as an army. Id like to think it was an interaction GW didnt intend and will fix, but im not so sure. Im not encouraged with how the daughters of khaine battalions seem to be locked to that temple, which seems wrong.

The chaos one apparently has command traits but no one to take them, and there seem to be more weird things. 
so it feels like it was kinda rushed/not playtested. Which could be an effect of COVID if the leadtime is less than 9 months. 
So I’m guessing oversights rather than on purpose and therefore changes. 
 

 

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

The‘ll reduce the range of it to 9“ I guess. So a Max of 23 models can teleport pre game. That‘s still strong but not as absurd as 43 with 12“

that’s better than making them count as moved. But 9” is still a 18” bubble. Surely you can put more than 23 models in there? 
im just happy that while the battalion. Works for sequitors as well, the liberator +1 save thing is not REDEEMER keyworded 😂

[Archibald]

On 11/18/2020 at 6:26 PM, Archibald said:

Mortal Realms: Morathi got me hyped to play dark elfes lead by Morathi. That would mean Har Kuron or pure DoK.

I am on kind of a budget due to Covid and stuff.

What would you recommend to buy? 

I had thought about something like this for 1k5 games. In times of Covid only fighting Orcs and LRL. The Assassin is a cool modell and i need 8 units.

Cities of Sigmar

HarKuron

1x Shadow Queen

1x Morathi

1x Sorceress (general, Vitriolic Spray)

1x Assassin
 

Battleline:

30x Darkshards

10x Executioners

10x Dreadspears

10x Dreadspears

Endless Spells:

Balewind Vortex

Spellportals

I tinkered a bit more. Now i am torn between 20 Darkshards and 20 Executioners or 30 Darkshards and 10 Executioners.

What do you guys think?:)

[BeeTee]

Tossing around an idea, curious to see if anyone had any thoughts on it.

 

Leaders:

 

- Dreadlord on Black Dragon: General-Murderous Zeal, Traitors Banner

- Sorceress on Black Dragon(Kraeth): Sap Strength 

- Sorceress: Nullstone Vizard.  The Withering(or Pit of Shades?)

- Assassin

- Slaughter Queen 

Battleline:

-Darkshards x30

-Dreadspears x20

-Dreadspears x10

Other Units:

-Doomfire Warlocks x10: Vitriolic Spray

- Shadow Warriors x10

Battalion: Kraeth’s Shadowpact.

1980/2000

idea is to use the warlocks as a mobile save shred(with a useful spell of out of range for spray).  Opening them up to the Darkshards, assassin, or dragons.  

Edited November 23, 2020 by BeeTee

[Geoffreyvt]

6 hours ago, BeeTee said:

Tossing around an idea, curious to see if anyone had any thoughts on it.

 

Leaders:

 

- Dreadlord on Black Dragon: General-Murderous Zeal, Traitors Banner

- Sorceress on Black Dragon(Kraeth): Sap Strength 

- Sorceress: Nullstone Vizard.  The Withering(or Pit of Shades?)

- Assassin

- Slaughter Queen 

Battleline:

-Darkshards x30

-Dreadspears x20

-Dreadspears x10

Other Units:

-Doomfire Warlocks x10: Vitriolic Spray

- Shadow Warriors x10

Battalion: Kraeth’s Shadowpact.

1980/2000

idea is to use the warlocks as a mobile save shred(with a useful spell of out of range for spray).  Opening them up to the Darkshards, assassin, or dragons.  

I like the idea of the warlocks! 

Altough I'm really not aware of their stats or capabilities, never played DoK. I like the idea that they can be an alternative to the spell portal for the Spray. 

Not too keen on the assassin, but it just never pulls it weight in my lists. What is you idea with the slaughter queen? (again, no experience with DoK) 

[Boar]

8 hours ago, BeeTee said:

- Sorceress: Nullstone Vizard.  The Withering(or Pit of Shades?)

I think Withering, with Pit you have two rolls to make to have any effect, and vs many targets not very useful

[BeeTee]

4 hours ago, Geoffreyvt said:

I like the idea of the warlocks! 

Altough I'm really not aware of their stats or capabilities, never played DoK. I like the idea that they can be an alternative to the spell portal for the Spray. 

Not too keen on the assassin, but it just never pulls it weight in my lists. What is you idea with the slaughter queen? (again, no experience with DoK) 

Warlocks are pretty mediocre stat wise.  2 wounds, 5+ save, 6 bravery.  Hitting on 4/4 with two attacks.  -1 tend.  But they haul at 14” move and can cast.  Their warscroll spell is cast on 6+ and does mw (d3 on units under 5 modes, d6 on 5-9, and flat 6 on 10+).

 

I am also worried about the assassin being a waste of 60 points...  but the model is fantastic.  If it ends up garbage, I can take those and the 20 spare and paint up a scourgerunner chariot.  
 

the Slaughter Queen is interesting.  She’s also a priest so she can do the city prayer on a unit.  She also has a self target prayer that lets her fight twice.  Save 5+ and two decent weapons(3 att, 3/4 -1, 1 and 3 att, 3/3 -1, d3).  Mostly she’s coming along for the prayer.

[BeeTee]

2 hours ago, Boar said:

I think Withering, with Pit you have two rolls to make to have any effect, and vs many targets not very useful

I agree.  I like the concept of Pit, but in general...  you’d need a good roll and a low movement unit to be worthwhile.