Can 3/ 4 Troggoth Hags be semi-competitive? - Gloomspite Gitz Army List

[T e e t h p a s t e]

Hi all,

I am currently in the works of heavy conversions for an ice troll theme I am going for. In this case, the trolls are bigger and... well uglier than normal. It is my hopes I can still use them on the tabletop. Currently the only things I can see them being are Great Unclean Ones (or something big and Nurgley) and something Troggoth. Size wise, the Troggoth hag.

Making four of these models, would it be possible to make them 3 or 4 Troggoth hags into a playable (and actually decent) list?

Here is the one I have so far:

2000 Points - Matched Play

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Realms of Battle: Ghur

Leaders:

- Fungoid Cave-Shaman /w Low Cunning, Hand of Gork

- Troggoth Hag /w Gryph-feather Charm

- Troggoth Hag x3

Battleline:

- Squig Heard (6) x3

Endless Spells:

- Mork’s Mighty Mushroom, Scrapskuttle’s Arachnacauldron, Emerald Lifeswarm

2000 points

I am no AoS pro, i just like the lore and making/ painting however I do like a decent list.

Does this list stand a chance at all?

If not, is there any chance to make it decent with a minimum of 3 Troggoth Hags?

Thanks for the read and any help!

[PlasticCraic]

Honestly, I don't think it'll ever be super competitive.  As much as I love using her, she's only quite good, and then mainly for a specific role in the army. 

If you were looking to make the list stronger I'd start by upgrading your chaff to Stabbas.  They have a bit more durability than Squigs and come back through the shrine.  Maybe something like this with 4 Hags:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)

Battleline
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
20 x Shootas (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

Gets the negs to hit stacking, gets access to the spell lore and has a few bodies to score with.  Probably still a 2-3 army though.

If you went down to 3 Hags, you might be getting into 3-2 territory:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Loonboss (70)
- General
- Command Trait: The Clammy Hand
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)

Battleline
40 x Stabbas (260)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
40 x Shootas (240)
20 x Shootas (120)

Units
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 165

If you're wanting this army to be good and not just cool, you're probably better looking at Nurgle in all honesty.  The GUOs are 2-spell casters with direct access to a spell lore, and cheaper too.  What's more they have access to a proper Allegiance kit, unlike Troggoths, and a decent Battalion (Thricefold Befoulement).

I'd love to see Troggoth Hag spam for Rule of Cool, and you might be able to steer it to a better result than I'm anticipating, but I personally can't see it being a really competitive tournament build unfortunately.

[T e e t h p a s t e]

9 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Honestly, I don't think it'll ever be super competitive.  As much as I love using her, she's only quite good, and then mainly for a specific role in the army. 

If you were looking to make the list stronger I'd start by upgrading your chaff to Stabbas.  They have a bit more durability than Squigs and come back through the shrine.  Maybe something like this with 4 Hags:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)

Battleline
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
20 x Shootas (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

Gets the negs to hit stacking, gets access to the spell lore and has a few bodies to score with.  Probably still a 2-3 army though.

If you went down to 3 Hags, you might be getting into 3-2 territory:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Loonboss (70)
- General
- Command Trait: The Clammy Hand
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)

Battleline
40 x Stabbas (260)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
40 x Shootas (240)
20 x Shootas (120)

Units
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 165

If you're wanting this army to be good and not just cool, you're probably better looking at Nurgle in all honesty.  The GUOs are 2-spell casters with direct access to a spell lore, and cheaper too.  What's more they have access to a proper Allegiance kit, unlike Troggoths, and a decent Battalion (Thricefold Befoulement).

I'd love to see Troggoth Hag spam for Rule of Cool, and you might be able to steer it to a better result than I'm anticipating, but I personally can't see it being a really competitive tournament build unfortunately.

Hi,

Thanks for the detailed reply! I am more heading for the cool end of the spectrum, but would like a fighting chance against other semi-competitive armies (Not too bothered if not).

I like the lists, it does seem more reasonable for more bodies, especially with the loonshrine.

What are your thoughts on Mork's Mighty Mushroom & Emerald Lifeswarm in these cases?

I have another list which works on endless spell spam with the Loonking at the back line being annoying:

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Troggoth Hag (380)
Troggoth Hag (380)

Battleline
6 x Squig Heard (70)
6 x Squig Heard (70)
40 x Shootas (240)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (90)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50) (Or Geminids)
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

Do you think endless spell spam is any decent? If so, which endless spells would serve a better purpose in this list?

[Scythian]

The Troggoth Hag is the great fool’s gold of most Troggoth armies. I play a very successful all Troggoth army and can tell you she is a huge point sink. You’re better off with a Trogboss and Mollog, 2 Trogbosses, or a Trogboss with two to three Fungoids. In almost every battle, the Troghag dies quick, never regenerates enough to save herself, and often dies from basic missile fire.  You’re better off using 3 Fungoids for your magic users. They give you crucial command points on a 4+ and have a 4+ feel no pain save that keeps them from being easily sniped. Go to the “Dankhold” topic page on this website for the folks who play Trog armies. There’s plenty of great lists and ideas. 

[T e e t h p a s t e]

1 hour ago, Scythian said:

The Troggoth Hag is the great fool’s gold of most Troggoth armies. I play a very successful all Troggoth army and can tell you she is a huge point sink. You’re better off with a Trogboss and Mollog, 2 Trogbosses, or a Trogboss with two to three Fungoids. In almost every battle, the Troghag dies quick, never regenerates enough to save herself, and often dies from basic missile fire.  You’re better off using 3 Fungoids for your magic users. They give you crucial command points on a 4+ and have a 4+ feel no pain save that keeps them from being easily sniped. Go to the “Dankhold” topic page on this website for the folks who play Trog armies. There’s plenty of great lists and ideas. 

How come it is so bad? From what I've seen many people seem to think it's a great addition to a list.

[Scythian]

People just use the model in their armies because it looks cool to them. Taking her in your army sinks 20% of your battle force into one model. Nine times out out 10 she rolls a 1-3 for regeneration. Statistically, that makes no sense but I’m telling you, it happens every time. Most people just shoot her down, charge and kill her with a good unit, and then your left with a gaping hole in your battleline. Go with three Fungoids for your spellcasters and get those much needed extra command points. 

[PlasticCraic]

There's things you can do to make her work if you're investing in Endless Spells.  Give her Ethereal Amulet and get someone else to cast Cogs.  Then she slows it down. Someone Hand of Gorks he 9" away and she unloads Geminids and her Warscroll spell into them.

That's debuffs for days and Mortal Wounds prowling around through their army.  She's on a 4+ rerollable save, straight into range to vomit all over them, and everything around her has minuses to hit all over them.  Deal with that.

The package is expensive, but can be worth it if you have a secondary use for Cogs so it's not just a Hag Tax, e.g. an Aggro unit that can benefit if you're not confident throwing her forward or they have boosted unbinds.  Squigs are great for this because they can reroll charges natively, so maybe you switch gears and speed up Cogs, teleport 12 / 18 / 24 Squigs forward, and hit their screens with a 7" rerollable charge.

So to get the most out of her I think you kinda need to invest in other stuff around her to make the whole army work, rather than running multiples of her.

Her biggest problem for me is not that she's bad (she isn't), it's that she's in direct competition with the A-Rok, which has 2 spells, direct access to a useful spell lore, buffed casting and is 100 points cheaper.  That being said I have gone 4-1 at a big tournament with the Hag so I know she can work if you build around her.  

Edited May 13, 2020 by PlasticCraic

[Pitloze]

For 380 points, in the current meta, she should be allowed to use the moon for wound regen. Even if she heals 12 wounds. She doesn't have a aftersave. She will take 12 wounds again pretty easily. Also she is THE Troggoth hero. And the thing Troggoths do is heal. It would not break anything I feel.

The FAQ made sense when the book was new. But now it makes her just too expensive. I honestly think she could go as low as 280. Maybe even 250.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Pitloze

[PlasticCraic]

I had a crack at writing what I feel would be a competitive Troggoth Hag list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Troggoth Hag (380)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Loonboss (70)
Zarbag (160)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Webspinner Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
18 x Squig Herd (210)
20 x Shootas (120)

Units
5 x Sporesplatta Fanatics (120)
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)
7 x Zarbag's Gitz (0)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 176

• Gameplan would be something like:
• Skraggy casts Cauldron and put the wounds on the Hag, she heals them back up
• Zarbag casts Cogs at +2
• Hag slows down Cogs so she's rerolling saves and casting 2 spells
• Skraggy casts Hand of Gork at +2 and throws the Hag across the table
• Hag chucks out Geminids into the middle of their army, and her Warscroll spell
• Hag vomits all over them and duffs them up
• Stabbas run onto the Objectives 
• Profit

You have loads of wounds (and more to come through the Loonshrine), loads of negatives to hit, some decent magic, a bit of ranged output (Skraggy, the Hag and chip damage from Geminids, Shootas and the full Spell Lore), and your chaff can fight.  There's 30 points to play with and tweak, but as it stands you have a good chance of getting a triumph.

There's loads of way you can flex this playbook depending on what you see across the table, so as mentioned above you can speed up Cogs and fling the Squigs into them with their native rerollable charge, you can Hand of Gork Zarbag out there if you really want to get that Geminids off with his +2 to cast, and you can cast Cauldron with the Hag if Skraggy goes down to keep using the spell lore.

It's not cutting edge, but I'd personally be quite happy to take it to a competitive event.  I think it'll get you further than multiple Hags to be honest - unless Rule of Cool is the big determining factor.

[Vasshpit]

@PlasticCraic

What would be screening with the splattas?

[PlasticCraic]

 

41 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@PlasticCraic

What would be screening with the splattas?

So you've got two true throwaway units in the 20x Shootas (plenty of opportunities for 10 of them to come back), and Zarbag's Gits.  The Snufflers don't owe you that much and could also stand in a Gnawhole or something if needed.

Another option would be to bust the 60-block down into a 40 and a 20, since you have the spare points?  Gives you 40-20-20 plus Squigs, plus Zarbag's Gits, plus whatever you resurrect.

What do you think - any other changes you'd make?

[Valentine009]

I think she is better as an ally to Ogres bc she compliments their weaknesses well.

Vanilla Ogre battleline troops have no AP and poor saves, so her spell is useful. Also it's nice to have a bit of range.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Valentine009

[Dankboss]

I really wouldn't suggest more than 1 Hag. She's a B+ grade unit, but is best used as a support and pinning unit/ skirmisher. She's in the same weight class as many big monsters, but they tend to be extremely smashy in combat; she's in quite a unique position for her class, that being a powerful backline that can transition into a frontline fighter as the game progresses, much like the Troggboss. Troggoths are great at crippling the enemy, and then fighting a war of attrition when their enemy is weak, as they're not outwardly tanky but persistent, and the Hag compliments them well. Troggoths are durable enough, but they can't survive proper concentration, however considering that all troggoths are an inherent threat, they survive by saturating their power across all units, as opposed to say the aforementioned big smashy monster that many armies have.