Grade the Freeguild units!

[Celestantpants]

So, this is just a fun thread for you to grade the freeguild units on a A - F scale based on your experiences.  Would be great if you could give a rationale to go along with it (such as with hallowheart this unit does such and such).

Freeguild general:

General on griffon:

Hurricanum:

Luminark:

Battlemage:

Battlemage on griffon:

Freeguild guard:

Greatswords:

Freeguild handgunners:

Freeguild crossbowmen:

Demigryph knights:

Outriders:

Pistoliers:

Flagellants:

 

[Gecktron]

For context, I play a Freeguild-focused Hammerhal army.

Freeguild general: A+, fantastic unit. His command ability is fantastic! Targeting 3 units for only 1 CP. He is also surprisingly punchy. I have knocked out quite a few monsters who thought he was easy pickings. 

General on griffon: -

Hurricanum: -

Luminark: B-, while I personally like the Luminark, its situational. +1 to unbind is rather reactive. It can be pretty helpful if it prevents an important spell from going off, but it doesnt help you make any moves. The 6+ fnp aura is nice to have but nothing to rely on. The las cannon on the other hand is useful with its 30" range. 

Battlemage: B+, a little squishy but he has access to a lot of spells, so he is useful in almost any situation. 

Battlemage on griffon: -

Freeguild guard: B, give them shields and you have a great chaff unit for 80 points.

Greatswords: B+, pretty strong, mortals are always nice, just a tad pricey

Freeguild handgunners: A, great! These are my main damage dealers. 2+/2+/-1/1 (with the General Buff) is great for only 100 points. They lack in mobility and are rather fragile but they can dish out some damage. The long rifle is also pretty good in taking out squishy heroes like mages. 

Freeguild crossbowmen: -

Demigryph knights: A, hard hitters that can deal a lot of damage. I just wished they were a little faster. 

Outriders: C, I dont like them. Random attack numbers plus a terrible to-hit stat doesnt go well with each other in my opinion. Sure, there are ways to improve their hit-rate but I want my guys on horses to run around, not stand still in a gun line. 

Pistoliers: B, situational but better than their Outrider cousins. 

Flagellants: -

[Kamose]

Freeguild general: A - Always useful though he does lend the army towards static play which can be a problem if you need to snag objectives.

General on griffon: A+ - I love my General on Griffon and he always does serious damage to whatever he goes after.  

Hurricanum: N/A

Luminark: B - A handy support piece but not nearly the damage dealer it was.

Battlemage: B+ - Squishy but versatile and interesting.  Hallowheart has lots of fun spells for these guys!

Battlemage on griffon: N/A - I've never used it but I am quite curious about how it performs in Hallowheart.   

Freeguild guard: B - A decently tough anvil when they have swords and mystic shield.  I enjoy casting Warding Brand on them and watching the explode when my opponent kills them.

Greatswords: B+ - They always do more than I expect when they get a chance to hit.  They are rather squishy and slow though.

Freeguild handgunners: N/A

Freeguild crossbowmen: C+ - The extra range and shots are nice for harassing but I don't expect them to be a major threat.

Demigryph knights: A+ - Really hard hitting

Outriders: N/A

Pistoliers: N/A

Flagellants: N/A

[zilberfrid]

On 1/3/2020 at 5:56 PM, Celestantpants said:

So, this is just a fun thread for you to grade the freeguild units on a A - F scale based on your experiences.  Would be great if you could give a rationale to go along with it (such as with hallowheart this unit does such and such).

Freeguild general: d, would not even let him lead a unit of greatswords. Kitbash one, or take spare from below

General on griffon: a, good detailing, extra general and battlemage in box, and than still has extras.

Hurricanum: a beautiful kit, very detailed and looks impressive, has extra battlemages

Luminark: see above

Battlemage: b wildly overpriced, but you get lots of bits

Battlemage on griffon: see gog

Freeguild guard: c, not the best kits, but give them spare greatsword heads and it's passable.

Greatswords: a+ great set, very detailed, and enough arms and heads for over 20, 

Freeguild handgunners: d, only saved by the long gun and the powder monkey

Freeguild crossbowmen: see above

Demigryph knights: b+, a lot of extra stuff, but light for the price

Outriders: a, enough stuff for 15 cav in a box of 5, detailing could be better though

Pistoliers: see above

Flagellants: I don't have them.

 

[Dankboss]

I've played Freeguild since the start of 2018 and have been playing Hammerhal recently (and only) as that's the city where Freeguild are meant to be.

Freeguild general: A- Absolute necessity. Can't really say more than that. 100% take.

General on griffon: B+ - Has a singular focus but high stats. Critical to a lancers battalion and packs a massive punch with Saint's Blade on Runesword, but lacks general utility. He wants to be on an objective with his knights.

Hurricanum: -

Luminark:  B- another necessity due to lack of magic protection. 6+ can often feel really good or really disappointing, but it's variable between games. Laser is actually quite impactful.

Battlemage: A- not something I bank on, but is certainly important. Wings of Fire is a must. 100% take.

Battlemage on griffon: -

Freeguild guard: A - but only in 'allegiance' for obvious reasons. Holds the Line, and that's about it. 100% take.

Greatswords: B+ utterly devastating when in combat, but getting there or getting hit is an issue. 100% take as a 10 in general lists for spike damage, or 100% as 30 in an infantry build.

Freeguild handgunners: A+ nothing stops a full frontal charge like Handgunners. Short range means they are best used as charge deterrents. Even in Hammerhal where min-maxing is ideal, I would run as a 30 for a massive charge deterrent. Be clever and weave one or two guys into your melee infantry blob to make charging the line hard and dangerous.

Freeguild crossbowmen: -

Demigryph knights: A+ the workhorse of your army. In Lancers, hit like Rockgut Troggoths with greater mobility and good melee protection. Their ability to fight off the charge makes them superior to most cavalry in the game. If you didn't know, Rockgut Troggoths hit obscenely hard.

Outriders: ? Can be used as a flex pick for the early game as a stand in for Handgunners and then transition to objective takers later. Only experience is from before CoS book.

Pistoliers: -

Flagellants: Not actually a Freeguild unit so no experience.

 

My only gripe about Freeguild is, aside from Handgunners and Allegiance, we have no real abilities and rely purely on stats and/ or buffing stats. We lost and gained a number of abilities, but a lot of flavor went with CoS.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Dankboss

[Eorek]

Freeguild general: A+ An absolute crazy  army efficiency multiplier. (assuming you are running freeguild ofc) A downside is that he sometimes limit your army movement in priority for getting his buff off optimally. 

General on griffon: C+ If taken as he is, a solid B if you can get him down to 2+ save with a trait or artifact( I run mine in greywater and he is an absolute amazing tarpit.) Prolly a B+ or A- if taken in the Tempest eye battalion

Hurricanum: A-B Hard to say, really dependant on matchups and build to be honest. A in a shooty hallowheart army but overall I'd say B 

Luminark: D I would probably never take this over a Hurricanum

Battlemage: B Not quite as solid as the sorceress, but some of the spells are realy good (looking at you Chamon) so if you are not taking any darkling covens for the sacrifice, take this over the sorceress.

Battlemage on griffon: C Want a mage with alot of wounds? rather pick hurricanum, Want a fighty model? Rather pick the way tankier general.

Freeguild guard: B Solid enough as a screen. Sorta that economic theory about purchases: Either get the best or the cheapest, if phoenix guard are the best, these guys are the cheapest.

Greatswords: B Fighty as hell...but... * Anything you can do Phoenix guard can do better* 

Freeguild handgunners: A These are super solid taken with a freeguild general, even more so with a Soulscream bridge

Freeguild crossbowmen: A Requires less support elements than handgunners, however usually less effective (A+ take in anvilgard with that save removing spell)

Demigryph knights: C Too expensive for what they do. also their supportive elements seem to just stack +hit to an unessecary amount. 

Outriders: D Fall in the shadow of pistoliers

Pistoliers: B A fast unit with a deceptive amount of firepower

Flagellants: C I would rather just go with the guard as a screen and they don't have enough shinenigans on their own to be worth it. 

Ranks are as follows: 
A : Absolute game changing models prolly a prio for your opponent to put out of play. 
B : Solid unit that can be taken in an army but usually is abit matchup dependant.
C : There are better options in other picks, however they might have use in certain builds
D : Look elsewhere. 

[Myrdin]

I am in a bit of a talkative mood right now so I`ll write a tad bit longer comment than the ones above, and throw in the Spoiler tab in oder to not take half a page from you good folks  

A simple ranking from A to F, where A is a strong pick either on its own or in combination with other units due to what it provides in raw power or utility. B is very solid pick. C is your typical medium, not amazing, not bad. D is situational and not an optimal choice but can work, though it costs you and F is utter rubbish and you are better skipping on the unit completely.

Spoiler

 

Freeguild general:  A By himself not amazing. but shines when coupled with other Freeguild units. If you are going Freeguild heavy, this guys is a must have for Freeguild heavy build.  Unless you are going a very specific low model count list in which case:

General on griffon: B Not a must, but if you are one of the players who like to play whats called a Monster Circus, and especially Flying Monsters Circus this is your guy (a monster Circus is a term used for low model count, heavy on big monsters and heroes on monster mounts list) On its own its pretty strong, decently tough unit that costs about as much as you`d expect. In some cities, he jumps to A tier, simply by the virtue of Artifacts and Traits you can stack on this beast. Not quite a greater demon but quite close to being one. Plus unlike the Black Dragons, the Gryffon is rather zippy and can cover chunks of the board with ease . Plus the model, even to this day is one of the best looking kits out there!

Hurricanum: A It doesnt matter if you rung Freeguild, other CoS subfaction or a complete mix and mash of units. A Hurricanum is a must take, thats how big of a boon this unit is. Bonus to hit removes enemy negative Hit debuffs which seem to be plenty these days. Otherwise it turns all your elite units into 2+ to hit murder machines and improves your casting regardless of which Wizard or City you choose to take. If it was just this, I would rank it as B. However it can also attack with 3D3 MW each turn and cast spells. Plus it can serve as very good buffmander General should you choose to make it one by putting a Wizard hero on top adding even more utility. With all things considered, this unit is A plus."Nough said!"

Luminark: C Luminark is the odd one out in this case. Whatever its utility, its not enough . In the absence of Hurricanum I believe it would shine a lot more, but when it competes for the position of a support unit, its effects pale in comparison to its alternate form. And the joke price difference of 10 points in regards to Hurricanum doesn't really make it any more viable. It would help if this thing was 250 points, At 220 I think it would be a solid support piece that can shoot a hard to fully utilize but fairly strong laser beam.  Alternatively, doubling the range of its protective bubble (like Chaos Warshrine did) might actually make it a lot more interesting (even so drop the price to 250 still).

Battlemage: B One solid Wizard right there. Utility is the name of the game. Being able to bring one additional spell of your choosing opens up some plays you do not get when playing with a Sorceress. And they can tap for extra cast bonus if you run Realm Bonuses. While not all the spells are equally useful depending on the City you are playing, all of them are something extra. And in a game where options directly influence your tactics having more of them is a strong argument for taking.

Battlemage on griffon: C/D This unit is essentially pointless. I already said this in other thread, but what you get with this model is a huge increase in movement and HP on your wizard for a massive tax slapped on top of it. He cant really fight, because its still a Wizard and the Gryphon is not good enough to pull the weight on its lonesome. There are no bonuses to the casting rolls, not extra spell casts from a battle mage. You do  get two more to choose from though, but thats not good enough. Essentially all you are getting is a line attack but at this absurd price you might as well take a Flying Luminark Hero (Thermalrider artifact) and do better with it. This unit is trying to do multiple things at the same time, not excelling, heck even being good at neither. And while utility is great thing to have as I have mentioned above, it cannot come at such a ludicrously inflated price. -100 pts would make this an attractive monster support choice, but as it is now the Battlemage on griffon is something that will be played only for the fun or in thematic lists, and even then, not often I`d  guess.

Freeguild guard: B Great meatshields. Relatively cheap and expendable. This is the sole Freeguild unit I use in every list even those that are anything but Freeguild oriented. Spear option is pretty lackluster, but both shields and halberds are decently solid. Halberds can be surprisingly effective in big numbers and when at least some support is thrown their way blobs of these can cause considerable pain. Otherwise these guys are great MSU charge stopper and sacrificial unit for setting up enemy units for counterattack. Not a must have, but most likely will be included 90% of the time.

Greatswords: C/A Ahhh.... the Greatswords. I love these guys on the paper, but I am always, every single time reluctant to spend the points, especially since I am fully on board with the "generic fantasy theme" CoS has (a city filled with all sorts of fantasy races. Too bad we dont have some Lizardmen-Seraphon in as well haha) and have other options available to me. 1W 4+ Save on a 160 pts platform is just way to expensive for my taste, despite their MASSIVE spike damage. Even 10 man MSU units, of which I am a fan of, they can dish out a massive number of wounds per turn. However due to the very hefty price tag I do rather avoid fielding them seeing as the power of CoS is in its ranged and cavalry options rather face to face smash it up line infantry. Thus the relatively low score of C. Amazing yet way to limited in this army to be taken as a mainstay. If taken, supported and used well, they become A tier meat-grinders who kick butts and claim names while twirling their most fabulous of mustaches in he process  

Freeguild handgunners: B Handgunners are the core for most Freeguild builds. Outside of Freeguild, due to the Range of 18" they compete with Sisters of the Watch and my favorite > the Shadow Warriors. However within this subfaction they can be turned into  a super effective pseudo volley gun. Their range is their biggest weakness in my opinion and they need to be backed up by either artillery or Xbows to force the enemy coming towards you and thus into their threat zone as you dont want these guys to move much. Just like with everything, a lot of their potential can be brought out depending on which City you opt to play.  And they get to overwatch just like Sisters do. Imagine double tapping a unit of 20. Yes very few things will make it through that hailstorm of bullets and those that do will be worse for wear and ready to by caught by your trusty FGGuard meatshields buying you even more time for more dakka. Oh and the unit champion can take a Hochland Long Rifle! Your very own medieval sniper ready to begin his Vindicare Assassin career ^^  Handgunners are the backbone of your shooting line and you should never leave home without them.

Freeguild crossbowmen: C These guys on their own are nothing to write home about, but scale drastically in effectiveness as you start stacking buffs on them. Also, and this is important to know > the Crossbowmen are the ONLY unit in this entire battletome, bar the artillery units, that has better range attack than 18" (yes technically Luminarks Death ray has longer range, but thats more of an ability than a basic attack... and it gives of artillery vibe anyway, I mean look at that thing!). What you are paying for is NO REND and mediocre stats of 4+ 4+. However as you have most likely read by this point, there are many lovely buffs that can by stacked upon this humble protectors of the mortal lands. All it takes is a General and a Hurricanum and you have doubled your effectiveness. Want even more ? Two of the Cities offer either +1 To Wound, or Reroll of 1 to Hit. Or maybe you dislike the No rend... Oh boy do I have the news for you. There is a spell that makes all armor go Puff! And now you are rolling on 2+ 3+ no saves at 24". Not to shabby eh ? So yeah, Crossbowmen are mediocre unit on their own that can be brought to godly levels of effectivity when properly supported. And support is something that CoS does well! So go grab yourself all the crossbow bits left from over from your Handgunners and start converting that additional unit of Freeguild guard you never thought you`re gonna be using!

Demigryph knights: B A solid unit. They used to be amazing in WFB, then became utter trash with AoS 1.0, and now they are again that so well beloved shock monster cav we all remember. Are they necessary ? Not really, but technically no unit is. But are you getting the bang for such hefty points investment  ? That would in most cases certainly be, YES!. They can fight on charge as well as off, meaning they dont care about getting stuck in there for a grind. Can deal solid amount of wounds per model and also can take a decent amount of punishment back if you can get a Mystic Shield on them. If you really want to make the most of them, there is a Battalion dedicated to Demis and a GenoGryf that turns these gallant chocobo riders into murderous poultry of fury and feathers. They work well even if unsupported, though do take care to always bring at least 6 per unit to fully capitalize on the effectiveness. A solid unit overall and well worth taking regardless of the list you are playing with, be it Freeguild oriented or not. Keep in mind though. These are not your Khorne Chaos knights on Juggernauts. Use them wisely and they will pay for themselves several times over.

Outriders: B Imagine Handgunners with the same amount of shots at worst, 3x that amount at best, 2W and fast horse underneath them to carry them off into the sunset in a blink of an eye. Yes these guys do have a worse Hit roll, but there is so many ways to off set that, that its not an issue. And the potential maximum damage for the unit is multiple of what you get from Handgunners. they are fast, can hit hard and have the range to camp on objective and still be a nuisance. They are ranked B, meaning very solid option. Just like Handgunners. If you are looking to play a fast mobile army, these are your guys to go with, though remember that General buff work only if you dont move the unit. However, with their range you can keep them stationary for a round or two before rushing for objective.

Pistoliers: C Unlike most people I am not really sold on these, and dont use them much. I wanna give them a go under certain circumstances but so far havent found the chance to do so due to the lack of models needed for the list in mind. But if we are going by the other comments, they seems to do well for a harrassing shock charge unit. Seem like a great chaff and chaff hunter for objective capping and thats never really a bad thing to have. 

Flagellants: F Ahh... yes... The sole reason why I included an F rating in this unit impression comment of mine. You thought the Corsairs are trash ? Well my sweet adorable general in making, after playing with Flagellants for a few games you will fondly remember those scurvy, knife eared sea dogs as the most elite slayers there ever was when compared to these "suiciding meatshield wannabes".
I remember how hyped I was about making a flagellant heavy infantry blobs, slinging them at my opponents lines without a care in the world while buying my army time to do more important things. So, now you might as "Myrdin whats exactly wrong with the Flagellants ?". Ah dear reader, the problem with this unit is so manifold, that should I start listing them in depth we would be here until the second coming of Sigmar, so forgive me for mentioning just the most obvious ones. Below mediocre stat line, Horrible ability that triggers only upon models in the unit dying, which goes against the very design of how this army operates on the table, never mention the fact that models dying is never a good thing to begin with (unless you are Khorne or Slaanesh in case of MW) No real support due to the loss of Warrior Priests and War Altars, a conditional Battleline.... and the biggest problem of all > 80pts price tag slapped onto them like an ugly rash!  Remember how highly we praised the good old trusty Freeguild Guard ? Them being MSU meatshields ? You`d think that these guys, whose rules are made in a way for them to be slaughtered like sheep beset upon by a pack of hungry goblin wolves would be a perfect for such a role no ? I mean a suicide unit that does extra damage upon dying sounds great right? WRONG >.< !  .....breath in.... siiiigh.

The unit has so many flaws I could write a whole satirical novel about it, so let me sum it up. A possible solution right now would be to drop them to 50/60 pts and no questions asked. They are the absolute bottom of the barrel in this army and should be priced as such. Drakespawn Knights ? For all their flaws, at least people never forgot about the existence of that unit, be ti good or bad! Thinking about this unit think Skaven Slaves and Beastmen Ungors. These pyromaniacs hungry for punishment are trying to compete for points and a position in the army to the well beloved and honored  Freeguild Guard. And we know just how dependable those are. At 60 points per pop and a good bulk discount you could make the argument of them being used for the role of a meatshield unit instead and that would be might fine. But as they are now, this unit is completely obsolete. Hell  again, there are people who actually forgot this unit was in our book to begin with! Thats how bad they are. ....Now that being said, nobody expects Flagellants to be "good" but at least make them cheap enough and give them some mobility  (StD Marauders are fantastic example of restricted high mobility and one of punching power). If the purpose of this unit is to loose models to gain buffs, that whole concept needs to be reworked and a less clunky more effective rule needs to be added, at the adequate price set for the unit as a whole. 

 

 

Now thats all from me. As someone who started this Army primarily from porting his WFB Empire over I think I managed to give unit a decent sum up. Still wish the Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest, War altar, and proper knights and mounted heroes (< this goes for all other sub-faction heroes as well) was an actual thing. I will be hoping for some of those making a return eventually.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Myrdin

[Celestantpants]

Bump

[Dankboss]

Thought I'd come back and give my new views now that it's been 10 months and the points have changed. I've been running Freeguild of Hammerhal, and have been winning 75% of my games vs Duardin Tempest's Eye and StoD (usually with Be'lakor), in a semi-competitive environment. Unfortunately, quarantine has stopped be from playing vs other armies, but the two I regularly play against have together strong elements of shooting and board control, so they're decent indicators.

Freeguild general: B I've dropped my Freeguild General from my list entirely, as I play aggressive and the game moves too quickly for my gunners to stand still. Still, he is obviously essential to gunlines, and if I took Crossbows then I would take him, but gunners don't have the range to be standing still from my experience.

General on griffon: B/A in Hammerhalian Lancers. Saint's Blade on Runesword makes him overkill units of 30 Longbeards on the charge, so I've switched to Armor of Mallus (which is the standard choice of most people) for the durability. He's critical in Hammerhalian Lancers, so gains A tier due to his outrageous damage he and his knights will output. Him and 1 or 2 min squads of Demigryphs will plow through pretty much anything. I run Blood of the Twelve for consistency.

Hurricanum: B/A in magic builds. The Hurricanum doesn't really do much for Freeguild, since most of our units hit on 2s under standard conditions. Good for hitting single targets, but I've actually come to prefer the Luminark outside of magic focused builds. Great for using Cinder Cloud.

Luminark: B The ward save is important for Freeguild as it's our only source of protection, and it's more valuable than +1 to hit. Pha's Protection means that you don't need to juggle Wings of Fire with Cindercloud in a low caster army. 50% chance to get +1 to cast from realms helps. I don't rely on its casting however, but it is a durable enough hero. The searing beam of light racks up good damage over the course of the game, and can force enemy units to move to not get multi hits. I find it will be doing more damage overall than the Hurricanum, just not against single targets. I give it the Twinstone as my 2nd artifact, so it can double as a Hurricanum for melee units. It usually accompanies my Greatswords for the +1 to hit, as I only run 2 heroes in my list (Luminark and Griffon).

Battlemage: C/ B in magic builds. I've downgraded the battlemage in my build (to not existing) due to the points increase and his vulnerability. He serves no purpose in my list, as he was usually running Pha's Protection, which the Luminark shares.

Battlemage on griffon: N/A

Freeguild guard: C They're guard. They screen. They tarpit. I run 2 units of 10 as objective holders and screens, but they don't do work. 40 Halberdiers are decent, as are 40 shields.

Greatswords: B+ The Greatswords saw a new breath of life with their points drop; I now run a unit of 30 in my standard list. Cast Pha's Protection with 6+ ward and they should be getting where they need to go. Outrageously choppy, these guys have killed monsters with their mortal wounds before they even roll wounds. These are my new core, replacing the guard; I'm not too worried if they get hit, as my real punch is my Hammerhalian Lancers, however, they are instrumental in making Lancers work, as the battalion, from my experience, needs a second big threat on the board to draw heat for them. This duel threat gives the Lancers the breathing room needed to work, because 30 Greatswords can't be ignored either. The Greatswords are now in a good place and should not be underestimated.

Freeguild handgunners: A The Handgunners are almost always useful, even in aggressive builds like mine. They can screen, or lend fire support to peel targets. Thanks to their ability to shoot when charge, they're harder to compromise than other shooting units. I have however reduced my unit from 30 to 20, as they're not a focus of my build and can get tagged easily at that size.

Freeguild crossbowmen: N/A.

Demigryph knights: B/ A+ in Hammerhalian Lancers. The only Freeguild unit that I'm giving an A+ to. I run a minimum sized Lancers battalion, and imo 3 is the magic number for maneuverability. These guys will eat almost anything alive; I've had a damaged unit of 2 wipe out 5 Chaos Knights, and again 20 Ironbreakers, in a single activation. If they're fighting twice, their target is gone. Even vs 2+ saves they can do significant damage. Their 3+ save gives them just enough durability to get hit back and tie up targets that survive, and they can fight well enough off the charge thanks to their mounts. Also resistant to penalties to hit, thanks to the General on Griffon making them hit on 1s (I usually only use Rousing Battlecry for the +1 to charge) Their weakness is mortal wounds however, so good positioning is important. Again, if they get charged first, they're in a better position than other cavalry at least. I can't understate just how much damage minimum sized units can do.

Outriders: N/A

Pistoliers: N/A

Flagellants:N/A

Edited August 25, 2020 by Dankboss

[tinpact]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:35 AM, Dankboss said:

I've been running Freeguild of Hammerhal, and have been winning 75% of my games vs Duardin Tempest's Eye and StoD (usually with Be'lakor), in a semi-competitive environment.

As someone looking at a Tempest's Eye army, how do you deal with the Irondrakes I assume they have? For example, the imaginary list I have has a core of two Runelords, a Hurricanum, 1x20 Irondrakes, and 1x 30 Longbeards for, optimally, a 2+/2+/-3/1 profile rerolling hits and wounds. There's a Sorceress and Chamon Battlemage in there too for utility.

Slaves to Darkness I can see getting the runaround with the low model count and Freeguild cavalry, but Duardin seem like they would do favorably against infantry (Depending on how they're screening, I guess. If they're full Duardin I imagine it's just a matter of tying them up with your infantry and letting them duke it out while the cavalry flanks and/or gets objectives).

[Dankboss]

2 hours ago, tinpact said:

As someone looking at a Tempest's Eye army, how do you deal with the Irondrakes I assume they have? For example, the imaginary list I have has a core of two Runelords, a Hurricanum, 1x20 Irondrakes, and 1x 30 Longbeards for, optimally, a 2+/2+/-3/1 profile rerolling hits and wounds. There's a Sorceress and Chamon Battlemage in there too for utility.

Slaves to Darkness I can see getting the runaround with the low model count and Freeguild cavalry, but Duardin seem like they would do favorably against infantry (Depending on how they're screening, I guess. If they're full Duardin I imagine it's just a matter of tying them up with your infantry and letting them duke it out while the cavalry flanks and/or gets objectives).

It can depend on the scenario, but the best thing to do is to force the Irondrakes to move.  My regular opponent fields 40 of them.

16" is not very far, so keeping out of their double shot range is key. If they're only shooting you once then you can usually absorb it safely. I do aim my Luminark laser through them every turn as well. Once you pass turn 1, Tempest's Eye are fairly easy to dismantle if you have the means to break heavy armor and jump screens. If not, then they're not going anywhere. Soulscream Bridge is not a very reliable way to teleport, as it requires a massive setup.

My lists tend to have multiple big threats, which make it difficult to focus down one unit without the knights beside them wiping the Irondrakes out in their next turn, now they're out of position. I also screen a lot.

In Hammerhal, a Griffon can easily jump a screen, and power slide into multiple backfield units, compromising an entire core of shooting.

[tinpact]

19 hours ago, Dankboss said:

It can depend on the scenario, but the best thing to do is to force the Irondrakes to move.  My regular opponent fields 40 of them.

16" is not very far, so keeping out of their double shot range is key. If they're only shooting you once then you can usually absorb it safely. I do aim my Luminark laser through them every turn as well. Once you pass turn 1, Tempest's Eye are fairly easy to dismantle if you have the means to break heavy armor and jump screens. If not, then they're not going anywhere. Soulscream Bridge is not a very reliable way to teleport, as it requires a massive setup.

My lists tend to have multiple big threats, which make it difficult to focus down one unit without the knights beside them wiping the Irondrakes out in their next turn, now they're out of position. I also screen a lot.

In Hammerhal, a Griffon can easily jump a screen, and power slide into multiple backfield units, compromising an entire core of shooting.

It's come to my attention that "a series of battle rounds, each of which is split into two turns" refers to the entire game, not each round, ie. this list is based on the movement and shooting phases being before the charging phase.

40 seems excessive for the amount of support they need. At any rate, it seems like it's worth bringing more MSUs and keeping the Irondrakes bubble-wrapped. Upgrading the Hurricanum with the battlemage to toss out more MW sounds pretty good too.The first two rounds are almost definitely going to be played more defensively than I had originally intended to avoid getting shredded by FEC  and the like. However, this also means aggressive teleports can't be countered by walking an inch out of range, and I can probably use terrain to avoid having to be wrapped 360 degrees.

Aetherwings and Gyrocopters are cheap, fast, and the latter covers a horde-clearing niche I missed; I wonder if it would be worth dropping some stuff to fit a couple units to grab points while the rest of the army hangs back?

Reading Hammerhal's section is a lot like talking to the rich kid after Christmas ("Oh, you got flying cavalry? Cool, I got +1 to hit vs monsters"). I mean Tempest's Eye is definitively one of the good cities, but in a much less grandiose way. It irks me somewhat more that Darkling Covens and Order Serpentis are separate keywords, because their commanders' respective abilities would be great on the others' units. Cavalry with run and charge and infantry with +1 to wound!