Radken Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have read through the Battletome but am finding no reference to my question. I am considering fielding some Fellwater Troggoths in my ironjawz army but am concerned I will lose out on the Ironfist battleline, is this true? I read somewhere that u cannot use those battalions if your entire army is NOT Ironjawz keyword? Also this related to wanting to take an Orc Great Shaman over a Weirdnob to start with too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garxia Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 If you use the Fellwater Troggoths and the Orc Great Shaman, you will lose Ironjawz allegiance and will need to pick Destruction allegiance. That means: - You CAN still use the Ironfist battalion (if you have the needed units for it). - Your Ironjawz units will stop counting as battlelines, so you'll need to pick some destruction battlelines (ogors, orruks...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Is this detailed in the General's Handbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, Radken said: Is this detailed in the General's Handbook? Yup, page 156-157 for Allegiances, and what counts as battleline on page 139. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Ok, thanks for the replies. It still a bit confusing. I'll see if I can wrap my head around it tonight once I'm off work. My ultimate goal is to be able to use the Ironfist ability (move D6 in hero phase) combined with Destruction ability (move D6 in hero phase) while fielding mostly Ironjawaz (Brutes, Ardboys, Gore gruntas, megaboss and warchanter) with some trolls and possibly an Orruk Great Shaman and Orruk Warboss on a Wyvern. I don't want to give up on my warboss on wyvern it's the older metal cast model my first 'big' model I painted a few years back. I also want to leave the door open for a possible arachnarok spider in the future while still maintaining those movement buffs in the hero phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Makes sense @Radken, just means you need to include some Ogors, Greenskinz Boyz, Grots or Savage Orruks in your list if you're making it under Matched Play rules. That said, Matched Play is totally optional, and frankly, a cool army is a cool army regardless of what these namby pamby tournament boyz fink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 34 minutes ago, Radken said: Ok, thanks for the replies. It still a bit confusing. I'll see if I can wrap my head around it tonight once I'm off work. My ultimate goal is to be able to use the Ironfist ability (move D6 in hero phase) combined with Destruction ability (move D6 in hero phase) while fielding mostly Ironjawaz (Brutes, Ardboys, Gore gruntas, megaboss and warchanter) with some trolls and possibly an Orruk Great Shaman and Orruk Warboss on a Wyvern. I don't want to give up on my warboss on wyvern it's the older metal cast model my first 'big' model I painted a few years back. I also want to leave the door open for a possible arachnarok spider in the future while still maintaining those movement buffs in the hero phase. Think tha way - you pledge an alliance twice. When you build your list it can be pure ironjawz, moonclan, bonesplitaz, etc. What you benefit from it? You get better bls. Done with the list? Now you pledge an alliance in order to get access to traits, commands, artifacts and spells. You check your army for a shared keyword to all umits. If all you units are ironjawz, you would have ironjawz and destruction. In that case you can choose from ironjawz (we dont have them, yet) or destruction. If your army has ogors, ironjawz and grots, for example, the only shared keyword wpuld be destruction. Hence, you could only get generic destruction traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ust66 Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 I am not familiar with the Ironfist battalion but if it includes the shaman and the troggoths then you do not lose the ironjawz allegiance if the battalion has the ironjawz allegiance. The sylvaneth book has a mixed battalion of stormcast and sylvaneth units. Since the battalion has the sylvaneth keyword the stormcasts in the battalion will gain the sylvaneth allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 13 hours ago, ust66 said: I am not familiar with the Ironfist battalion but if it includes the shaman and the troggoths then you do not lose the ironjawz allegiance if the battalion has the ironjawz allegiance. Nah he's talking about a complete Ironjawz Battalion, then adding the Shaman and Troggoths. Will be a cool army (love those Fellwater Troggoth models!), just needs to squeeze in 3 generic Destruction Battleline units (Ogors, Orruks, Savage Orruks, Grots) which should be doable I think! Just the opinion of a namby pamby tournament boy though eh @Lucio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Ok so I read through the GH last night and am still not 100% clear. It's obvious I cannot take the Ironfist Battleline since my entire army wouldn't have the 'Ironjawz' keyword. However I would have thought with the mix or Greenskinz, Troggoths and Ironjawz since they all have the 'Destruction' keyword this would qualify me for the Destruction Allegiance Rampaging Destroyers ability and a command trait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Radken said: since they all have the 'Destruction' keyword this would qualify me for the Destruction Allegiance Rampaging Destroyers ability and a command trait? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Boots Matt Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Quote since they all have the 'Destruction' keyword this would qualify me for the Destruction Allegiance Rampaging Destroyers ability and a command trait? Correct Not only is it correct I actually believe the strength in Destruction is in mixed lists, although I do love batteline Brutes & ard'boyz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metzombie Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 And you do not need to have a Ironjaw Allegiance to use the Ironfist or any other Ironjaw battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Wait what? I thought it was considered a battle line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The Battalions don't take into consideration whether a unit is battle line or not, just that you meet the requirements. So you could take battle line Grots and then the Ironfist Battalion (which is something I'm considering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 So what you're saying is I can have a mixture of troggoths, greenskins, and ironjawz..I can swear allegiance to destruction alliance for the rampaging destroyers ability and take artefact from destruction AND declare an iron fist battle line for their ability so long as I have the ironjawz requirement to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orruk Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yes that's right. You will need the destruction battle line units: savages/boys/grots/ogors. So if it's 1000 points you need 2 units etc. But Battalions do not require allegiances. You keep calling the "ironfist battalion" a battle line, which is the confusion I think, The only limitation you have is that your ironjawz units do not count as battle line (that is only possible with an iron jaws allegiance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 24 minutes ago, Radken said: So what you're saying is I can have a mixture of troggoths, greenskins, and ironjawz..I can swear allegiance to destruction alliance for the rampaging destroyers ability and take artefact from destruction AND declare an iron fist battle line for their ability so long as I have the ironjawz requirement to do so? You got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 8 minutes ago, Orruk said: Yes that's right. You will need the destruction battle line units: savages/boys/grots/ogors. So if it's 1000 points you need 2 units etc. But Battalions do not require allegiances. You keep calling the "ironfist battalion" a battle line, which is the confusion I think, The only limitation you have is that your ironjawz units do not count as battle line (that is only possible with an iron jaws allegiance). So what is the difference then of a battalion and a battle line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 A Battalion is a formation, which is made up of different units and is granted special abilites. Battle Line is a unit you need to take to fulfill your Force Organization. For example, at 1000 points you need a Hero and 2 Battle Line units. By using all of a certain Keyword in your army building (say Ironjawz), this can unlock units as battle line. For example, Brutes are not Battle Line if you are taking a general Destruction army (Grots, Giants, Moonclan, etc) all mixed in. If all of the units in your list composition have the keyword Ironjawz, then you can use Brutes to fulfill the Battle Line role. I suggest getting The General's Handbook if you haven't already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Radken said: So what you're saying is I can have a mixture of troggoths, greenskins, and ironjawz..I can swear allegiance to destruction alliance for the rampaging destroyers ability and take artefact from destruction AND declare an iron fist battle line for their ability so long as I have the ironjawz requirement to do so? No, your Ironjawz will not be battleline, your army will not be able to claim the Ironjawz Allegiance, as the Troggoth and other Greenskins are not Ironjawz. I think you guys are messing it up a bit. For Brutes/Ardboyz/Gore-gruntas to be Battleline, your army must have the Ironjawz Allegiance. To have the Ironjawz Allegiance your ENTIRE army has to have the Ironjawz keyword. Since the entire army lacks the Ironjawz keyword, you cannot declare an Ironjawz Allegiance, thus those Ironjawz units cannot be battleline. If you want an Ironfist and want to mix in Troggoths and other allegiances (like Greenskins) you'll need battleline units, things like Savage Orruks, Moonclan Grots, Ogors, and other units which are battleline without any Allegiance stipulation. That said, if you do have an IRONJAWZ allegiance, you are allowed to use Destruction allegiance abilities still, any allegiance can default to their grand alliance for their allegiance abilities (which includes artifacts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orruk Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Radken said: So what you're saying is I can have a mixture of troggoths, greenskins, and ironjawz..I can swear allegiance to destruction alliance for the rampaging destroyers ability and take artefact from destruction AND declare an iron fist battle line for their ability so long as I have the ironjawz requirement to do so? Hi @thediceabide I think you misread Radken's post. He said "swear allegiance to destruction" not ironjawz. The Greenskins (which I'm assuming are boys) he has will have to be the battleline, because as you said the units in the Ironfist battalion can only be battleline with a pure ironjawz allegiance. But yeah totally agree with what you said. I think @Radken was just getting a bit mixed up with the words battalion and battleline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 OK ok I think you guys finally got me on the right track. I now understand why you keep saying I need a unit of Boyz or grots etc..to conform to the pitched battle 1000 pts etc games I need 2 battle lines and if I take trolls or greenskinz hero's I negate my brutes ardboyz and gore gruntas from being battle line thus requiring a unit of orruks or grots. So now that I understand that thanks everyone BTW to delve a little deeper let's say I DO have all ironjawz brutes megaboss warchanter etc and I swear ironjawz allegiance so I can appease the 2 battle line minimum for a 1000pts game. How then do I still qualify for the rampaging destroyers destruction ability? Wouldn't that negate my ironjawz allegiance and thus making my army illegitimate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 No they changed it in the FAQ. So you can build your list with Ironjawz allegiance, but claim the Destruction ability at the start of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radken Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Dez said: No they changed it in the FAQ. So you can build your list with Ironjawz allegiance, but claim the Destruction ability at the start of the game. Is this the errata you speak of? Page 106 – Pitched Battles, Picking Your Army Change the last paragraph to read: ‘Once you have picked your army, record the details of it on a piece of paper (your army roster). The roster must include the units in your army, details of the upgrades they have, the army’s allegiance, and must say which model in the army will be the army general. If your army includes any units that are given keywords when they are set up, such as units with a Mark of Chaos, then these must be chosen and written down when the unit is added to the roster. You must record the allegiance abilities for your army when the battle begins, before setting up your first unit. You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to. I still don't quite comprehend how this is legit, how can i make my list under the principal it is Ironjawz Allegiance, then come battle time say I declare allegiance to Destruction and still have valid battlelines? I am curious how my local GW store interprets this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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