The Rumour Thread

[Ejecutor]

30 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Have they revealed the Dwarfs box contents yet?

It could be perfectly a CoS box 😅

[Ejecutor]

20 minutes ago, novakai said:

I expect clan rats will just be design similar to Tyranid Gaunt units, slightly more detail and modern then the original but cost more.

I hope it doesn't happen like what happened with the Gaunts, that at first look the new ones were looking like nothing changed.

[Peacaf]

20 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Huh? All the new stuff for O&G is out of stock. For TK and Bretonnia still lots of stuff out of stock, this is ofcourse true for a lot stuff from GW. This combined with what I see from the Honest Wargamer points to a great succes. An ongoing succes. But we will see the next couple of months.

Screenshot taken a few minutes ago. Khemri is almost the entire range.

[Tonhel]

9 minutes ago, Peacaf said:

Screenshot taken a few minutes ago. Khemri is almost the entire range.

Lol, anyway that's old stuff and very boring stuff. By all accounts that's a uninteresting box, the dwarf box is much better, with two copters basically for free.

I am talking about the new stuff. :-). The release day was yesterday for O&G. Not bad I say. 😉

Edit: For TK still all the new stuff still out of stock. 😉 You can't change facts. 😛

 

 

Edited April 7 by Tonhel

[Peacaf]

4 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Lol, anyway that's old stuff and very boring stuff. By all accounts that's a uninteresting box, the dwarf box is much better, with two copters basically for free.

I am talking about the new stuff. :-). The release day was yesterday for O&G. Not bad I say. 😉

Edit: For TK still all the new stuff still out of stock. 😉 You can't change facts. 😛

 

 

To which I have responded to your statement that BOC in TOW is going to sell more than 9 years of AoS.

And you will have to sell the new and old things, the old ones no longer sell too after the initial hype of TOW.

[EonChao]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

@Luperci Most ToW players aren't using newly bought kits because they literally can't. This drip feed release of the factions has squandered all the massive hype ToW had at launch. By the time they release wood elves or whatever they'll have lost out on TONS of impulsive buyers (including me) that would have jumped right on the bandwagon when the iron was hot.

@EonChao The beasts of chaos range isn't being "shuffled around" in any kind of way that actually reduces the load on production because they are still entirely available for ToW. Combined with the shocking blow to consumer confidence that is squatting last editions release faction I think it's pretty safe to call the squatting anti-consumer. It certainly isn't pro consumer and judging from the reaction of the customers I'd be hard pressed to call it neutral either so anti consumer is the only option left.

Shuffling the Beasts of Chaos into TOW likely reduces the amount of product that they're likely to need to make as TOW is a much more specialist system than AoS with likely smaller levels of stock that need to be maintained betweened the webstore and physical locations.

However I buy into the idea that they've been moved to TOW because they're the older kits. Because there's nothing to replace them then they've been removed from AoS so that each sale of a Beasts kit can be a confirmed sale for TOW metrics wise. It's stupid idea but it's exactly the sort of weirdness that a big company would do just because it makes one person higher up have an easier job.

Personally I'm wondering if Beasts were meant to stay in AoS as a faction but weren't due for a range refresh until late 4th, early 5th and someone higher up told them to pull the plug now to make things easier on the finance team. I suspect it'll be a long time before we hear anything concrete though

[Tonhel]

1 minute ago, Peacaf said:

To which I have responded to your statement that BOC in TOW is going to sell more than 9 years of AoS.

And you will have to sell the new and old things, the old ones no longer sell too after the initial hype of TOW.

Yes, I do believe that the Beastmen release box will sell out, the Beastmen Arcane journal will sell out, the Beastmen cards will sell out and the new Beastmen resin characters will sell out.

Anyway if we both remember this discussion in a couple of months when Beastmen returns with its shiny Arcane Journal we can see who was right. 😉

[Still-young]

17 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I hope it doesn't happen like what happened with the Gaunts, that at first look the new ones were looking like nothing changed.

In person though they’re so much better. The overall design was fine anyway, all they needed was exactly what they got, a modern remaster. 

[GrimDork]

I hope the clanrats are not too much of a departure from the previous design. I have some IoB rats and it would be nice if I can make use of them along side the new without it being too obvious. The only thing that shows their age is the mono pose weapon arm attachment points. Newer kits fit together in ingenious ways that hide the joins and enable more dynamic poses.

[Tonhel]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

@Luperci Most ToW players aren't using newly bought kits because they literally can't. This drip feed release of the factions has squandered all the massive hype ToW had at launch. By the time they release wood elves or whatever they'll have lost out on TONS of impulsive buyers (including me) that would have jumped right on the bandwagon when the iron was hot.

@EonChao The beasts of chaos range isn't being "shuffled around" in any kind of way that actually reduces the load on production because they are still entirely available for ToW. Combined with the shocking blow to consumer confidence that is squatting last editions release faction I think it's pretty safe to call the squatting anti-consumer. It certainly isn't pro consumer and judging from the reaction of the customers I'd be hard pressed to call it neutral either so anti consumer is the only option left.

If you don't have a 3d printer or have an old collection it is almost impossible to start a TOW army. A serious handicap for some players to get in the game.

For me, I am subscribed to a dozens of patreons/tribes and will print 95% of my TOW armies. I will only buy all the books / journals and truely new plastic or resin kits. I am not a fan of most of the old Warhammer sets.

If I manage to buy the new stuff, still haven't been able to buy a single new Bretonnian resin character. It's getting a bit absurd.

 

Edited April 7 by Tonhel

[Peacaf]

6 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Yes, I do believe that the Beastmen release box will sell out, the Beastmen Arcane journal will sell out, the Beastmen cards will sell out and the new Beastmen resin characters will sell out.

Anyway if we both remember this discussion in a couple of months when Beastmen returns with its shiny Arcane Journal we can see who was right. 😉

No no . They are going to outsell AoS in a few months. Without having data, of course and despite the fact that a faction that has been out of stock longer and more popular is selling at a lower rate.

[Ejecutor]

11 minutes ago, Peacaf said:

To which I have responded to your statement that BOC in TOW is going to sell more than 9 years of AoS.

And you will have to sell the new and old things, the old ones no longer sell too after the initial hype of TOW.

Will it sell more because of the re-release of the old stuff? IMO the comparison would need to be done between the same range of minis. You cannot compare if it would sell more if they get a decent chunk of new minis (something between Brets and Dawis), because then they would have more love in TOW than in AoS. Simply it is two things that cannot be looked at under the same prism.

[Tonhel]

5 minutes ago, Peacaf said:

No no . They are going to outsell AoS in a few months. Without having data, of course and despite the fact that a faction that has been out of stock longer and more popular is selling at a lower rate.

Yes, it's very possible that during the two pre-order weeks the Beastmen Brayhards with the new stuff and attention (Arcane journal/armies of infamy) will have a higher revenue than during the 9 years of it being in AoS, were it was neglected to death.

Edit: BoC during AoS was ignored. Give it the attention it deserves through TOW and it will blossom. I am certain of that.

Edited April 7 by Tonhel

[Ejecutor]

11 minutes ago, Still-young said:

In person though they’re so much better. The overall design was fine anyway, all they needed was exactly what they got, a modern remaster. 

I agree. What I mean is that I hope that the renewal is easier to notice without having to put both minis side by side.

[Ejecutor]

3 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Yes, it's very possible that at in the two pre-order weeks the Beastmen Brayhards with the new stuff and attention (Arcane journal/armies of infamy) will have a higher revenue than during the 9 years of it being in AoS, were it was neglected to death.

 

IMO it is virtually impossible due to stock levels for both games.

[Peacaf]

Of course, despite lowering the price and reducing the profit margin, they will make more profits. Please.

Many AoS players are going to sell their army and it will be even cheaper to buy the army from these players than from GW.

Besides, I doubt that BOC in TOW will arrive before 2025, as it is still an AoS army.

And yes, you have to see the entire range, because almost the entire range will be old miniatures, which is what will sell the least and not to mention if there are more models per box.

[Tonhel]

4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

IMO it is virtually impossible due to stock levels for both games.

Yeah, we will never know the real numbers. The only thing that is visual for us, is how pre-orders go and if we look only to that than TOW is doing really good. Which is more or less confirmed by GW itself in the community article were they said the scope of project has changed. Which to me seems that it means everything is going better than expected. 

3 minutes ago, Peacaf said:

Of course, despite lowering the price and reducing the profit margin, they will make more profits. Please.

Many AoS players are going to sell their army and it will be even cheaper to buy the army from these players than from GW.

Besides, I doubt that BOC in TOW will arrive before 2025, as it is still an AoS army.

And yes, you have to see the entire range, because almost the entire range will be old miniatures, which is what will sell the least and not to mention if there are more models per box.

Possible, From june onwards it's lots and lots of AoS. I expect 2-3 TOW army releases until the end of the year.

Dwarfs are coming before or shortly after AoS 4th. As these are already previewed. Those exact dwarfs are still in CoS.

I expect that from the moment AoS 4th edition is released all links to BoC miniatures will be gone. Only a link to the temporarly index will be there. From that moment Beastmen Brayherds can be released for TOW as the next new TOW army. It will be that or Warriors of Chaos.

 

[novakai]

Pretty sure historically Beastmen and BoC have never been moderately a best seller, I doubt it would flourish in OW either. That probably the main reason it being cut from AOS

GW are just aggressive in pushing stocks out if there a surplus to poor LFGS which they get saddle with the product if their marketing team over produce boxes

[Peacaf]

And by the way in AoS for BOC there have been:

-Endless spell

-The stone

-Beastlord

-Underworlds Band

-Slaangors

- Various Tzaangors profiles

So they have had new things and at least I have bought them.

[Tonhel]

1 minute ago, novakai said:

Pretty sure historically Beastmen and BoC have never been moderately a best seller, I doubt it would flourish in OW either. That probably the main reason it being cut from AOS

GW are just aggressive in pushing stocks out if there a surplus to poor LFGS which they get saddle with the product if their marketing team over produce boxes

Bretonnia was also a bad seller during 8th, even worse than Beastmen as they got exactly zero attention during 8th and I think also during 7th edition. If I remember correctly their latest armybook was from 6th edition.

From the last Honest Wargamer youtube vid, it's mentioned that the Bretonnia Exiles seems very popular. When an army gets proper attention with fun army options, a couple of nice kits it will do well. This is true for any army in any game system.

BoC sold poorly during AoS, is because they got almost zero attention in 9 years. They could have done a lot of cool and crazy stuff for BoC. The technology is there to make amazing monsters. So much stuff they could have explored, so many bizar and wonderful miniatures that could have been done, but what did they got a single beastlord mini and a couple of spells.

So anything that Beastmen will get through TOW will already be a succes compared what they got through AoS.

[Tonhel]

11 minutes ago, Peacaf said:

And by the way in AoS for BOC there have been:

-Endless spell

-The stone

-Beastlord

-Underworlds Band

-Slaangors

- Various Tzaangors profiles

So they have had new things and at least I have bought them.

 

No, BoC didn't get that. DoT and HoS got that. That's the painful thing. BoC could have gotten it, but instead it was given to HoS and DoT (Tzaangors/Slaangors).

The underworlds warband. Not buyable anymore for a couple of years..

I hope you are not claiming that BoC got proper attention during AoS? It was endless spells and a beastlord. That was it. 😞.

Edit: Sorry, I was wrong about Tzaangors and Slaangors.

Edit2: Although it is a spillover from HoS and DoT, but still it was in the BoC army.

Edited April 7 by Tonhel

[EonChao]

10 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

 

No, BoC didn't get that. DoT and HoS got that. That's the painful thing. BoC could have got it, but instead it was given to HoS and DoT (Tzaangors/Slaangors).

The underworlds warband. Not buyable anymore.

I hope you are not claiming that BoC got proper attention during AoS?

Beasts of Chaos can take Slaangors and Tzaangors (including Shamans, Enlightened, and Skyfires). So whilst they were released with those armies they were also for Beasts of Chaos. The Warband for Underworlds looked great and it being no longer available is nothing unusual, all the Beastgrave ones are.

The Endless Spells and terrain were sculpts specifically for AoS, so even if the Beastlord could be argued to be an unused WFB sculpt (which it probably wasn't) they definitely had time and effort put into them. Likewise we know the main studio staff were improving the overall Beastmen look from Underworlds and the various 40k Beastmen they produced. And they were featured regularly as Chaos forces in novels, instead of pushing something else instead. So it was almost certain they were considering keeping a hold of the range for AoS until something change internally for TOW.

Edited April 7 by EonChao

[Ejecutor]

36 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Yeah, we will never know the real numbers. The only thing that is visual for us, is how pre-orders go and if we look only to that than TOW is doing really good. Which is more or less confirmed by GW itself in the community article were they said the scope of project has changed. Which to me seems that it means everything is going better than expected. 

Possible, From june onwards it's lots and lots of AoS. I expect 2-3 TOW army releases until the end of the year.

Dwarfs are coming before or shortly after AoS 4th. As these are already previewed. Those exact dwarfs are still in CoS.

I expect that from the moment AoS 4th edition is released all links to BoC miniatures will be gone. Only a link to the temporarly index will be there. From that moment Beastmen Brayherds can be released for TOW as the next new TOW army. It will be that or Warriors of Chaos.

 

I agree TOW has been a success, but without being able to see in the preorders 1/4000 boxes sold (which you can guess with numbered stuff like premium BTs), it is impossible to see.

Imagine we have a visual of the numbers and the TOW stuff is all sold out 0/200 available, meanwhile, nothing is sold out for AoS but you can see 1000/2000. Is TOW a bigger success? No. It is sold out, yes. But it didn't sell more. I think something like this happened.

[Peacaf]

18 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

Bretonnia was also a bad seller during 8th, even worse than Beastmen as they got exactly zero attention during 8th and I think also during 7th edition. If I remember correctly their latest armybook was from 6th edition.

From the last Honest Wargamer youtube vid, it's mentioned that the Bretonnia Exiles seems very popular. When an army gets proper attention with fun army options, a couple of nice kits it will do well. This is true for any army in any game system.

BoC sold poorly during AoS, is because they got almost zero attention in 9 years. They could have done a lot of cool and crazy stuff for BoC. The technology is there to make amazing monsters. So much stuff they could have explored, so many bizar and wonderful miniatures that could have been done, but what did they got a single beastlord mini and a couple of spells.

So anything that Beastmen will get through TOW will already be a succes compared what they got through AoS.

Bretonnia has been out of stock for more than 8 years, it is no longer comparable just for that reason.

Just like you can't compare with dwarves because half of the range is outside of AoS and probably with the new Cities book it's all there.

Slaangors and Tzaangors were playable in BOC, there were lists that played Tzaangors spams and the support has certainly been better than Ogres and even Skaven.

[Tonhel]

10 minutes ago, EonChao said:

Beasts of Chaos can take Slaangors and Tzaangors (including Shamans, Enlightened, and Skyfires). So whilst they were released with those armies they were also for Beasts of Chaos. The Warband for Underworlds looked great and it being no longer available is nothing unusual, all the Beastgrave ones are.

The Endless Spells and terrain were sculpts specifically for AoS, so even if the Beastlord could be argued to be an unused WFB sculpt (which it probably wasn't) they definitely had time and effort put into them. Likewise we know the main studio staff were improving the overall Beastmen look from Underworlds and the various 40k Beastmen they produced. And they were featured regularly as Chaos forces in novels, instead of pushing something else instead. So it was almost certain they were considering keeping a hold of the range for AoS until something change internally for TOW.

Yeah, I edited my post. I forgot it was included in the BoC battletome, but still it was released for HoS/DoT and not for BoC.

Imo BoC got a bad treatment miniature wise. It only got one mini, a terrain piece and endless spells. Not a good deal for a period of 9 years.

I don't believe TOW had such a big impact on the future of BoC. If ofcourse the Beastmen Arcane journal is accompanied by 1 or more plastic sets, than yes. Than it's because of TOW that BoC disappeared from AoS. But I don't think that this is the case, but more that some AoS factions had to go to introduce new factions and it's because of TOW that there still will be Beastmen mini's buyable.

I wonder if that Underworld warband will be brought back for TOW. That shaman is great.

 

Edited April 7 by Tonhel