AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[CeleFAZE]

Everyone, this is relevant for anyone looking for alternative blissbarb models: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldwolf/araves-vs-valkyries

Shieldwolf is relaunching their Araves kickstarter soon, which failed to fund last time, but they're giving it one more go. The araves plastic kit is an all-female, arabian-theme plastic kit that can be built with bows (or two hand weapons) and looks pretty amazing and definitely on-brand for our purposes. Very few people seemed to know about it last time, so I'm signal-boosting it as much as I can. I'm not affiliated with them, I just see this as the most economical way to pull off my Oops All Blissbarbs list and I'm gonna cry if it doesn't get funded again.

[Selpharia]

Next week I have my first 2k Gallet game. Yes, I’m bringing a Keeper and both of the twins. Yes I will get destroyed, but it will be glorious

[Popisdead]

21 hours ago, Selpharia said:

Next week I have my first 2k Gallet game. Yes, I’m bringing a Keeper and both of the twins. Yes I will get destroyed, but it will be glorious

I played 60 Daemonettes, exalted, 2 hellflayers and fiends in a pick up game the other day.  not every opponent is top LVO challenging.  Me and my opponent had a hoot.  

[azdimy]

I was closely watching the Tzeentch changes to see how our book could shape up and now I have no idea. I had my hopes up with the Nurgle book but Tzeentch seems to be a 2.1 book and not a 3.0. I can only hope they do a complete revisit on Slaanesh when our time comes

[Enoby]

7 minutes ago, azdimy said:

I was closely watching the Tzeentch changes to see how our book could shape up and now I have no idea. I had my hopes up with the Nurgle book but Tzeentch seems to be a 2.1 book and not a 3.0. I can only hope they do a complete revisit on Slaanesh when our time comes

Same boat here. I can only hope they didn't change much of Tzeentch because they were actually happy with it, and not because they didn't have the time - and I hope they're not happy with our current book. I suppose, at least from what I saw, not many fans seemed unhappy with Tzeentch's old book so perhaps they took that as a sign not to change much?

If it's any hope, ours was the last book Jervis wrote and perhaps on the rushed side of a faction that was, at the time, considered in need of nerfs. More than that, Jervis can't be given the book again so there's little chance of anyone being too attached to the current rules to change them. 

I really think this uncertainly on whether a new book will be good, or even a worthwhile investment, is really hurting the system - mostly because, when someone gets a new book, there seems to be more fear than excitement, and thus less hype. Not all of the changes make sense, and fans are often left feeling unsatisfied - but not always. 

All we can hope is that all of the "worst battletome ever!" comments have gotten through to the rules team and the person who's assigned to write the next book knows they need some big changes. 

[Selpharia]

There’s been a definite pattern where times that are “pretty good!” mostly get a streamline and a cleanup. I think of DoK as a very good example of this. On the other hand, armies whose gimmick has been seen as weak or boring have seen more significant changes, such as Nurgle or Nighthaunt. I’d still say that pretty much all the books have been thematic, tightly focused on a vision for the faction, but also have options catering to a wide range of playstyles within that faction. I remain optimistic.

[CeleFAZE]

On 9/10/2022 at 10:42 PM, CeleFAZE said:

Everyone, this is relevant for anyone looking for alternative blissbarb models: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldwolf/araves-vs-valkyries

Shieldwolf is relaunching their Araves kickstarter soon, which failed to fund last time, but they're giving it one more go. The araves plastic kit is an all-female, arabian-theme plastic kit that can be built with bows (or two hand weapons) and looks pretty amazing and definitely on-brand for our purposes. Very few people seemed to know about it last time, so I'm signal-boosting it as much as I can. I'm not affiliated with them, I just see this as the most economical way to pull off my Oops All Blissbarbs list and I'm gonna cry if it doesn't get funded again.

The Shieldwolf kickstarter is live! Again, the Araves kit that's a part of this is a multi-part all-female arabian-themed plastic kit that makes 20 great looking alternatives for blissbarbs (with a melee option), and they're only $25 a box. I really want to see this one reach its goal: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldwolf/araves-vs-valkyries

[Orphen1991]

Hi all,

I'm recently coming back with AoS and specifically I want to finish my HoS army, Paint all the stuff I have and such.

Although I've no idea where to start with the list, I've seen that we play a lot of mortals, like archers, sigvald and seekers.

What about out other choices? Is Synessa or Dexcessa good? The keeper are Always a must have? Daemonettes and chariots only for summon?

Do you have and all around good list? In my meta there Is Kharadron, Stormcast, Idoneth, Nurgle, Ossiarch and Flesh eater. 

Thank you

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Orphen1991 said:

What about out other choices? Is Synessa or Dexcessa good? The keeper are Always a must have? Daemonettes and chariots only for summon?

Do you have and all around good list? In my meta there Is Kharadron, Stormcast, Idoneth, Nurgle, Ossiarch and Flesh eater. 

Synessa is used pretty often, mostly alongside Archers to get as much damage as possible from range for an early DP lead. 

Keepers are considered not worth it, due to their points being far higher than their damage and tankiness would suggest and the fact they're very easy to summon. I only summon them and daemonettes, depending on what I need - either bodies on objectives or a second pile in/monstrous threat. My experience with chariots is very limited but from what I have seen, they're not great. 

As for all around lists, we do have a pretty good internal balance in our mortals - as in, you can take pretty much any mortal unit (besides Slaangors) and do okay with them. Daemons feel a bit forgotten with undercooked rules and way too high points. For an all around list, I'd recommend 10 Twinsouls as a hammer, three units of 11 Archers, two units of 5 Painbringers, Sigvald, and I personally like Glutos. This isn't the best list - for that you'd want an Incarnate - but it is a list that'd get you a decent amount of milage in a more casual meta. 

If your meta isn't casual, you may struggle with Slaanesh but can pull yourself up with Archers, Synessa, an Incarnate, and a few cheap units to screen - this probably won't be a particularly fun list, mind. 

[Orphen1991]

32 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Synessa is used pretty often, mostly alongside Archers to get as much damage as possible from range for an early DP lead. 

Keepers are considered not worth it, due to their points being far higher than their damage and tankiness would suggest and the fact they're very easy to summon. I only summon them and daemonettes, depending on what I need - either bodies on objectives or a second pile in/monstrous threat. My experience with chariots is very limited but from what I have seen, they're not great. 

As for all around lists, we do have a pretty good internal balance in our mortals - as in, you can take pretty much any mortal unit (besides Slaangors) and do okay with them. Daemons feel a bit forgotten with undercooked rules and way too high points. For an all around list, I'd recommend 10 Twinsouls as a hammer, three units of 11 Archers, two units of 5 Painbringers, Sigvald, and I personally like Glutos. This isn't the best list - for that you'd want an Incarnate - but it is a list that'd get you a decent amount of milage in a more casual meta. 

If your meta isn't casual, you may struggle with Slaanesh but can pull yourself up with Archers, Synessa, an Incarnate, and a few cheap units to screen - this probably won't be a particularly fun list, mind. 

Thank you very much for your reply, Is the incarnate so strong? Glutos Is my to buy list, Simply I really love the model so I'll get It After synessa.

Slaangor are incredible models, such a shame they are no good.

[Sonnenspeer]

10 hours ago, Orphen1991 said:

Slaangor are incredible models, such a shame they are no good.

Slaangors are great fun in Warcry, fast and hard hitting. In AoS not so much

[Enoby]

13 hours ago, Orphen1991 said:

Thank you very much for your reply, Is the incarnate so strong? Glutos Is my to buy list, Simply I really love the model so I'll get It After synessa.

Slaangor are incredible models, such a shame they are no good.

The Incarnate is very strong, mostly for these two reasons:

1) Simply put, it's got very good rend and damage, which we usually lack

2) For us specifically, as it can't die first turn, you can fling it in there and cause as much havoc as possible to every enemy there, racking up DP and letting your army advance mostly unscathed. 

Both Glutos and Synnessa will get the job done - Glutos is still one of the tankiest characters in AoS, and Synessa is just good support with a cannon. 

[azdimy]

Looks like we missed the mark on being in the factions that needs the most help according the recent gw metawatch article. Interesting that they ve broken the Orruk warclan faction for the first time. Hopefully they still provide proper buffs to our faction so it s not just 55 blissbarb archers and a krondspine that does well for us competitively

[KrispyXIV]

11 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Looks like we missed the mark on being in the factions that needs the most help according the recent gw metawatch article. Interesting that they ve broken the Orruk warclan faction for the first time. Hopefully they still provide proper buffs to our faction so it s not just 55 blissbarb archers and a krondspine that does well for us competitively

At least they acknowledged that 'Internal Balance' is a thing they'll be looking at - at this point I'm less frustrated in the overall power of Slaanesh's stronger units (I'm having decent success with Blissbarbs/Painbringers/Twinsouls and our stronger characters) than I am with how everything else feels completely overcosted.  

The vast majority of Slaanesh needed to get the same price drop that Twinsouls did - its not like it would break anything, Twinsouls would still exist.  But it might make it worth it to consider putting Daemonettes in a list as bodies if they were 100 instead of 130...

We've established that pricing things fairly doesn't break Slaanesh or the summoning mechanic, time to bring that concept all the way home

Edited September 30, 2022 by KrispyXIV

[Enoby]

22 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Looks like we missed the mark on being in the factions that needs the most help according the recent gw metawatch article. Interesting that they ve broken the Orruk warclan faction for the first time. Hopefully they still provide proper buffs to our faction so it s not just 55 blissbarb archers and a krondspine that does well for us competitively

At least we're on the cusp of 'dire', as bad as it is to say, so we should at least get a glance over and hopefully a few points drops if nothing else. 

Even if they don't touch mortals again, if they're looking at internal balance then we do need the daemons to get substantial drops.

[KrispyXIV]

Just now, Enoby said:

At least we're on the cusp of 'dire', as bad as it is to say, so we should at least get a glance over and hopefully a few points drops if nothing else. 

Even if they don't touch mortals again, if they're looking at internal balance then we do need the daemons to get substantial drops.

I'd personally like to see the mortal exalted Seekers get a review as well.  While they've got great wound values for their cost, they just don't DO enough to consider over equal values of mortal infantry. 

[azdimy]

7 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

At least they acknowledged that 'Internal Balance' is a thing they'll be looking at - at this point I'm less frustrated in the overall power of Slaanesh's stronger units (I'm having decent success with Blissbarbs/Painbringers/Twinsouls and our stronger characters) than I am with how everything else feels completely overcosted.  

The vast majority of Slaanesh needed to get the same price drop that Twinsouls did - its not like it would break anything, Twinsouls would still exist.  But it might make it worth it to consider putting Daemonettes in a list as bodies if they were 100 instead of 130...

We've established that pricing things fairly doesn't break Slaanesh or the summoning mechanic, time to bring that concept all the way home

I m really not sold on painbringers. Twinsouls are in a good spot because of bounty hunter and access to rend via a purple sun. My unit of 10 will still bounce to a unit of 5 stormcast  vindictors without these buffs. What do you consider our stonger character to be? I feel they re all overcosted outside of sigvald who s ok for a turn and then is dead. Blissbarb archers are now even undercosted I feel i  the last 30pt reduction they got went too far in my opinion.They re only not seeing more play because it is such a horrible kit to assemble while the models are beautiful.  It s a shame that all the deamon units remained untouched and have no place in our starting army. I hope we see some meaningful point reduction there very soon as they have been forgotten for over a year now

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, KrispyXIV said:

I'd personally like to see the mortal exalted Seekers get a review as well.  While they've got great wound values for their cost, they just don't DO enough to consider over equal values of mortal infantry. 

I agree. I think they used to be our best (or at least our better) units, but with Twinsouls going down so much it's hard to justify any other melee troop. 

I do think they could be solved with a points drop of between 30-50 - substantial, but inkeeping with their very poor defence and bravery compared to units like Bloodknights. I know it's no real good comparing the two as they're in different armies, but it's hard not to!

[KrispyXIV]

11 minutes ago, azdimy said:

I m really not sold on painbringers. Twinsouls are in a good spot because of bounty hunter and access to rend via a purple sun. My unit of 10 will still bounce to a unit of 5 stormcast  vindictors without these buffs. What do you consider our stonger character to be? I feel they re all overcosted outside of sigvald who s ok for a turn and then is dead. Blissbarb archers are now even undercosted I feel i  the last 30pt reduction they got went too far in my opinion.They re only not seeing more play because it is such a horrible kit to assemble while the models are beautiful.  It s a shame that all the deamon units remained untouched and have no place in our starting army. I hope we see some meaningful point reduction there very soon as they have been forgotten for over a year now

I feel like the Contorted Epitome is pretty solid, especially with endless spells wanting a solid caster to get them off.  

I've also been running an enrapturess with Tome as shes... ok, and potentially more spell protection. 

I've been having good results with painbringers as a tankier, grindier line unit that consistently puts through some damage.  

[Selpharia]

I’m thinking of having ten Slickblades in reserve for the new book in the coming year. Pretty much every recent tome has had a viable option focusing on elite cavalry, and I think they’re very close to being usable. 

That said, after testing the Exalted Chariot at 1k and finding it underwhelming, I’m considering something like this, and would love some feedback, especially as to what you’d elect to replace the slickblades with

 

[b]++ **Contest of Generals** 2,000 (Chaos - Slaanesh) [1,990pts] ++[/b]

[b]+ Leader +[/b]

[b]Lord of Pain [140pts]:[/b] 0. Oil of Exultation, 2. Glory Hog, General

[b]Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh [205pts]:[/b] General

[b]Synessa, Voice of Slaanesh [260pts]:[/b] General

[b]The Masque [130pts][/b]

[b]+ Battleline +[/b]

[b]Blissbarb Archers [280pts]:[/b] 22 Blissbarb Archers, High Tempter, Reinforced

[b]Hellstriders with Hellscourges [135pts]:[/b] 5 Hellstriders

[b]Myrmidesh Painbringers [120pts]:[/b] 5 Myrmidesh Painbringers

[b]Symbaresh Twinsouls [260pts]:[/b] 10 Symbaresh Twinsouls, Egopomp, Reinforced

[b]+ Other +[/b]

[b]Slickblade Seekers [230pts]:[/b] 5 Slickblade Seekers

[b]Slickblade Seekers [230pts]:[/b] 5 Slickblade Seekers

[b]+ Allegiance +[/b]

[b]Allegiance[/b]
. [b]Allegiance: Slaanesh[/b]
. . Invaders Host: Lurid Haze

[b]++ Total: [1,990pts] ++[/b]

 

[CeleFAZE]

Reminder for anyone planning on backing the alternate blissbarb models kickstarter: there's only 23 hours left to go, and they've already met their funding goal, so if you want to get in on this make sure you do so before it closes.
 

 

[CeleFAZE]

The battlescroll is likely this week, if the projected time window for the 40k version lines up with ours. What changes are we expecting or reasonably hoping for?

Personally I hope they continue the trend with point costs rebalances, and they bring the exalted seekers and hellstriders to a more reasonable level. Something like 110 for striders, 180 for slickblades and 160 for blissbarb seekers would be ideal in my mind, though I imagine realistically we'd probably not see better than 125 for hellstriders, 200 for slicks and 190 for barbs. But we got a pretty massive change with Sigvald in the past, so it seems it could really go either way.

[Enoby]

36 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

The battlescroll is likely this week, if the projected time window for the 40k version lines up with ours. What changes are we expecting or reasonably hoping for?

Personally I hope they continue the trend with point costs rebalances, and they bring the exalted seekers and hellstriders to a more reasonable level. Something like 110 for striders, 180 for slickblades and 160 for blissbarb seekers would be ideal in my mind, though I imagine realistically we'd probably not see better than 125 for hellstriders, 200 for slicks and 190 for barbs. But we got a pretty massive change with Sigvald in the past, so it seems it could really go either way.

While I'd love to see some drops, I'm a little pessimistic in not expecting any. As we're just within the 45% limit, they may well treat us as "fine" despite the fact that a large portion of our book is much less than fine. Personally I'd love to see some reductions (and a new Slaangor scroll), but I think their focus will be elsewhere.

[CeleFAZE]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

While I'd love to see some drops, I'm a little pessimistic in not expecting any. As we're just within the 45% limit, they may well treat us as "fine" despite the fact that a large portion of our book is much less than fine. Personally I'd love to see some reductions (and a new Slaangor scroll), but I think their focus will be elsewhere.

Well, there are two ways I could see things going, depending whether or not GW is acting in good faith on the premises they stated with their balance video and article.

1. We've reached the lowest possible magic number, and now it's hands-off. I see this as a pretty harsh indictment on them, if they choose this route.

2. They actually meant what they said about trying to ensure both internal and external balance with books, and see that what got us back up to that point was almost entirely lists utilizing primarily the reduced-cost units from the last update, as well as external tools like the incarnate. If they're acting in good faith, this should be an indicator that more choices should come down, to encourage the kind of list diversity they want to see.

I know we've all felt kind of burned by GW in the past. Rightly so. However if this really is their intent to give a more honest effort at balance, I think we could see some more (if minor) changes.

Edited October 10, 2022 by CeleFAZE

[Selpharia]

Since we’re likely to get a book sometime in the coming year, I don’t expect big changes. I’d bet on a 15-20 point reduction for the exalted seeker units, and maybe some other small boost, but nothing grand.