AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Umjammerlama]

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/5958#disqus_thread
 

This was in the article about Fyreslayers vs Idoneth Deepkin. In the article it talked about Skaven submarines and warp stone torpedoes. 
 
Let’s hope they do a model for that. That would look epic. 

[DocKeule]

Please not. The flying fishes of the IDK are already silly enough. (And I say that owning a Sushi-Elf army of round 4500 points.) 

I could imagine some flying devices but on the other hand do we really want more AoS armies go the KO-way? It would be easier to introduce Skaven into 40k.

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

Please not. The flying fishes of the IDK are already silly enough. (And I say that owning a Sushi-Elf army of round 4500 points.) 

I could imagine some flying devices but on the other hand do we really want more AoS armies go the KO-way? It would be easier to introduce Skaven into 40k.

Submarines.

that really sounds kinda silly.

But I do love the fluff.

Just hoping for no submarine models.

[Cosmicsheep]

20 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Just hoping for no submarine models.

Maybe just a warlock engineer with a warpstone harpoon ?? 😂

[Megahurtz]

What is actually the best synergy with a Warp Grinder? So far I have thought about expendable CR with WFT, but I see potential for some other tricks, such as warpgale to (hopefully) block charges, putting in SV and adding a Deathmaster or two for charging myself and some extra damage? If we are lucky, maybe we managed to bring a GS or CL close for some extra punch. What do you think? Just for fun or will it have a good effect?

[Cosmicsheep]

23 minutes ago, Megahurtz said:

What is actually the best synergy with a Warp Grinder?

My plan is to run it with 20 clanrats hiding 2 Ratling guns. With an Arch Warlock general with overseer of destruction placed on the edge of the deployment zone it is possible to get him within 12" to give +1 damage and re-rolls hits to both in turn 1.

If you were feeling crazy, you could extend this to 60 clanrats hiding 3 Ratling guns and 3 WFT 😂😂

Edited January 9, 2022 by Cosmicsheep

[DocKeule]

9 hours ago, Megahurtz said:

What is actually the best synergy with a Warp Grinder? So far I have thought about expendable CR with WFT, but I see potential for some other tricks, such as warpgale to (hopefully) block charges, putting in SV and adding a Deathmaster or two for charging myself and some extra damage? If we are lucky, maybe we managed to bring a GS or CL close for some extra punch. What do you think? Just for fun or will it have a good effect?

I have played him with six Stormfiends and an engineer. Main downside of course -  the only available buff the turn they show up is the warpstone token. 

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I have played him with six Stormfiends and an engineer. Main downside of course -  the only available buff the turn they show up is the warpstone token. 

A warlock with the devious adversary trait, can still give you fiends a re-rollable ability for at least the missed hits

[Megahurtz]

37 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I have played him with six Stormfiends and an engineer. Main downside of course -  the only available buff the turn they show up is the warpstone token. 

I believe this is not possible? "Instead of setting up this model on the battlefield, you can place this model to one side and say that it is set up tunnelling as a reserve unit. If you do so, when you would set up another friendly SKAVENTIDE unit that is not a MONSTER or a WAR MACHINE, instead of setting up that unit on the battlefield, you can say that it is joining this model tunnelling as a reserve unit." From battle scribe, I do not own the Skaven book yet. Of course SF can tunnel on their own.

[Megahurtz]

9 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

My plan is to run it with 20 clanrats hiding 2 Ratling guns. With an Arch Warlock general with overseer of destruction placed on the edge of the deployment zone it is possible to get him within 12" to give +1 damage and re-rolls hits to both in turn 1.

If you were feeling crazy, you could extend this to 60 clanrats hiding 3 Ratling guns and 3 WFT 😂😂

Similar here. However, my question is rather related on a "true" deepstrike force. 20 CR are only a carrier and with 2 RG or WFT a nice distraction, but will not be really able to pin down and destroy the frenemies.

I am thinking of 2x 30 SV plus weapon teams and maybe deathmasters in order to charge-kill things as well.

[DocKeule]

29 minutes ago, Megahurtz said:

I believe this is not possible? "Instead of setting up this model on the battlefield, you can place this model to one side and say that it is set up tunnelling as a reserve unit. If you do so, when you would set up another friendly SKAVENTIDE unit that is not a MONSTER or a WAR MACHINE, instead of setting up that unit on the battlefield, you can say that it is joining this model tunnelling as a reserve unit." From battle scribe, I do not own the Skaven book yet. Of course SF can tunnel on their own.

Wasn't that two units that could go with the Warp Grinder team not too long ago?

That makes the grinder a lot less attractive unless you hide weopon teams in a unit of Clanrats. 

[Cosmicsheep]

1 hour ago, Megahurtz said:

Similar here. However, my question is rather related on a "true" deepstrike force. 20 CR are only a carrier and with 2 RG or WFT a nice distraction, but will not be really able to pin down and destroy the frenemies.

It's true that clanrats are not going to deal any significant damage but they can play an important role that makes them more than just a carrier. Drop your WG in the centre of the battlefield turn one, 9" away from your enemies lines and you chain your 20 rats out in a single line of around 20" This makes them a great speed bump and give your back lines (jezzail, fiends) an extra turn for shooting. 

And a buffed and overcharged ratling gun with re-rolling hits and +1 damage would be doing an average of 7 wounds against a 4+ enemy. Two of them could take down a unit worth more than the combined cost of 2 RG and 1 WG

 

1 hour ago, Megahurtz said:

I am thinking of 2x 30 SV plus weapon teams and maybe deathmasters in order to charge-kill things as well.

Good luck getting that 9" charge off consistently, even re-rolling that's a 48% chance.  If you take cogs that could go up to 66% chance of an 8" charge but that's a big gamble. And don't expect your deathmasters to do very much. They desperately need a new warscroll IMHO

[Megahurtz]

Followed up on my idea and developed it into a one drop list (battle regiment). The idea is to go second and hope for the double turn. WG and SV with weapon teams show up close to a vulnerable spot, weapon teams are dropped 6" from frenemy and burn-shoot them. Warpgale (and weapon teams screen) prevents charging of SV by most dangerous unit and allows me charging if I fail the turn they show up.

Still open for optimization are the weapon teams (WFT vs RG) and the spells of the GS. Is it competitive? I do not know. Will it be a lot of fun? For sure! Just need loads of SV now...

What do you think?

 

 

++ **Pitched Battle GHB 2021** 2,000 (Chaos - Skaven) [1,985pts] ++

 

+ Core Battalion +

 

Core Battalion: Battle Regiment

 

+ Leader [585pts] +

 

Clawlord [105pts]: 1. Things-Bane, 4. Brutal Fury, Battle Regiment - 1 Commander, Warpforged Blade

 

Deathmaster [100pts]: Eshin Throwing Stars, Weeping Blades

 

Deathmaster [100pts]: Eshin Throwing Stars, Weeping Blades

 

Grey Seer [140pts]: 6. Warpgale, Arcane Bolt, Battle Regiment - 0-2 Sub-Commander, Mystic Shield, Warpstone Staff, Wither

 

Grey Seer [140pts]: 3. Skitterleap, 4. Supreme Manipulator, Arcane Bolt, Battle Regiment - 0-2 Sub-Commander, General - Masterclan, Mystic Shield, Warpstone Staff, Wither

 

+ Battleline [790pts] +

 

Clanrats [130pts]: 20 Clanrats [130pts], Battle Regiment - 2-5 Troops, Bell Ringer, Clanshields, Rusty Blades, Standard Bearers

 

Stormvermin [330pts]: 30 Stormvermin [110pts], Clanshields, Pack Drummers, 2x Reinforced [220pts], Rusty Halberds, Standard Bearers

 

Stormvermin [330pts]: 30 Stormvermin [110pts], Clanshields, Pack Drummers, 2x Reinforced [220pts], Rusty Halberds, Standard Bearers

 

+ Other [610pts] +

 

Giant Rats [40pts]: 6 Giant Rats [40pts], Battle Regiment - 2-5 Troops, Vicious Teeth

 

Warp-grinder [75pts]: Warp-grinder

 

Warp-grinder [75pts]: Warp-grinder

 

Warpfire Thrower [70pts]: Rusty Knives, Warpfire Thrower

 

Warpfire Thrower [70pts]: Rusty Knives, Warpfire Thrower

 

Warpfire Thrower [70pts]: Rusty Knives, Warpfire Thrower

 

Warpfire Thrower [70pts]: Rusty Knives, Warpfire Thrower

 

Warpfire Thrower [70pts]: Rusty Knives, Warpfire Thrower

 

Warpfire Thrower [70pts]: Rusty Knives, Warpfire Thrower

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Allegiance: Allegiance: Skaventide

 

+ Game Options +

 

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

 

++ Total: [1,985pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[TerminusRex]

2 hours ago, Megahurtz said:

Followed up on my idea and developed it into a one drop list (battle regiment).

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

You have way too many units to fit them all in one battle regiment.  You can't even fit them into two.

[Cosmicsheep]

10 hours ago, TerminusRex said:

You have way too many units to fit them all in one battle regiment.  You can't even fit them into two.

I think the point here is that the WFT and Deathmasters don’t count as drops and therefore don’t have to be in the battalion. 

You are correct though, it’s not a single drop army. The battle regiment allows 3 leaders and 5 troops which would be the grey seers and clawlord, and the 3 battleline and the 2 grinders. The deathmasters and WFT are hidden inside those battlelines. The 6 giant rats would not fit.

[Megahurtz]

11 hours ago, TerminusRex said:

You have way too many units to fit them all in one battle regiment.  You can't even fit them into two.

 

1 hour ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I think the point here is that the WFT and Deathmasters don’t count as drops and therefore don’t have to be in the battalion. 

You are correct though, it’s not a single drop army. The battle regiment allows 3 leaders and 5 troops which would be the grey seers and clawlord, and the 3 battleline and the 2 grinders. The deathmasters and WFT are hidden inside those battlelines. The 6 giant rats would not fit.

I might be wrong here, but my idea was to have the battle regiment (grey seers, clawlord, clan rats, giant rats) as one drop. All the rest is in reserve so no drop. However, I might be wrong here as the rules seems not to be very clear, at least to me.

The alternative understanding would be that all units have to be set up, even if in reserve. In this case, I can set up all units in reserve, wait for my frenemy to be set up and set up all my units accordingly. This will probably interfere with me dictating the first round, but might even be better for this army, as I can set up 12 units in reserve before being forced to set up on the board. What do you think?  

Edited January 14, 2022 by Megahurtz

[DocKeule]

I think they technically still are a drop even if you don't put them on the table at the beginning. You have to declare with each unit individually that they are hidden in another unit or go underground etc.

[Megahurtz]

Great! Actually I believe this makes this list even more meaningful as you can outdrop basically every frenemy and have the possibility to position the vulnarable units you have to drop where they might hurt them least. 

[DocKeule]

I am afraid you can't. You would have to declare them one by one like: Your opponent puts a unit on the table and you say that a weapon team is hidden. Then he puts another unit in the table and you declare one etc.

You have five heroes and twelve units. The lowest you could get would be using three battle regiments to have three drops.

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I am afraid you can't. You would have to declare them one by one like: Your opponent puts a unit on the table and you say that a weapon team is hidden. Then he puts another unit in the table and you declare one etc.

You have five heroes and twelve units. The lowest you could get would be using three battle regiments to have three drops.

Actually the weapon team is the exception.

It literally says that you do not set the weapon team up, and unlike other rules where it is stated, that they are set up at a different place, thus considered as a reinforcement unit, this unit just straight out doesn’t.

Instead weapon teams are hidden in a chosen unit, when you’re writing the list.

kinda funny how we are literally breaking the reinforcement rule.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Megahurtz]

Actually in this case I would have preferred to set them up regularly, so basically in reserve to force more drops from the frenemy. Anyways, first still a lot of assembling and painting to do😄

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Megahurtz said:

Actually in this case I would have preferred to set them up regularly, so basically in reserve to force more drops from the frenemy. Anyways, first still a lot of assembling and painting to do😄

You do know, that you can’t make use of the hidden weapon team rules in this case.

also without the low drop formation, there is always a good chance you’ll be taking part at a game with 10 or more drops, no matter how many weapon team units are hidden.

[Megahurtz]

17 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

You do know, that you can’t make use of the hidden weapon team rules in this case.

Sorry, but I do not know what you mean. I cannot use hidden weapon teams with the warp grinder?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

I challenge all of you (if you're a real skaven player you will) to build a list that "null deploys". Don't have a single model on the table to start. It doesn't matter who goes first. You just scare the ****** out of your opponent. I suggest Warpgnaw Verminlords summoned with the Gnawbomb, so many Drill Team Six's and a plethora of Gutter Runners. Use the GR's to tag your backfield objectives if you're really trying to score points. 

[DocKeule]

In theory that isn't even that hard but you either would have to spend a lot of points (and money) on warpgrinders who don't do much after they showed up or go with Stormfiends and then lose a Rattling Cannon for the grinder which is also meh.